User talk:Diannaa/Archive 13

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Thank you

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		Thanks for helping me out with this article. You definitely deserve this, considering you were kind enough to take time off from your Wikibreak to help out. The UtahraptorTalk/Contribs 13:46, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

You're welcome. We will need to keep going on the references until they all have been converted to the new style. I just got bored and moved onto sonething else, but will return and finish up later. --Ninja Dianna (Talk) 15:30, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Input needed

Hi

It seems I have caused a problem with an editor and they have posted on the coordinators talk page. I have replied but it has hit me a little personally and I cannot continue discussion. I already had a great feeling of guilt about the mistaken edits on the Ducie article when they were reverted, hence my lol on their talk page (meant as a "wow how could I have done that, must have been an off day"). As something else seems to be driving the editor on to reverse their seemingly cordial discussion and strike out their previous comments I feel others should comment as I am too close to the matter.

The conversations that brought this about are [[1]] User_talk:Stfg/Archive_1#Boldface (used to be one but were later split) and User_talk:Chaosdruid#Boldface. Discussion on coordinators talk - Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Guild_of_Copy_Editors/Coordinators#GOCE_culture

(copied to all coordinators pages) Chaosdruid (talk) 18:07, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

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Hey

Welcome back! I hope you enjoyed your vacation! The Utahraptor^Talk/_Contribs 04:37, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you. I will try to get back to regular editing tomorrow, but there are still some RL things that i need to do to catch up. :) --Dianna (talk) 04:41, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Help! (New User)

Hi Diannaa, it is my first time here in Wikipedia, would you mind if you can give me some tip/rules about this site? Thank you for your consideration Hamham31 (talk) 06:46, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Hi Hamham! I would suggest that you read the links provided to you in the "Welcome" note left by SMasters on your talk page. If you have any further questions/doubts, feel free to contact me on my talk page. Avenue X at Cicero (talk) 09:30, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Silver Reef peer review

It may interest you to know that I have created a peer review for Silver Reef, Utah here. Feel free to leave comments. The Utahraptor^Talk/_Contribs 21:10, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I will look at this tomorrow. --Dianna (talk) 21:55, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Getting more GOCE editors

Hi, Wikid77 (talk) here. We need more people for the Sept. backlog drive, perhaps 80(?) people would be great. I have asked questions at new talk-page:

• WT:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Backlog elimination drives/September 2011

If that is the wrong page for these issues, then let me know, here, and I will redo those talk-page topics wherever you would prefer them to be listed. Thanks. -Wikid77 21:13, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. That is a good place for the discussion. I will look at it tomorrow. --Dianna (talk) 21:56, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks!

I never knew how to do that myself. --Againme (talk) 17:55, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Back tonight

Hi

Hope you enjoyed your break. Unfortunately one of my nieces was taken very ill and admitted to hospital in NY during the hurricane and that plus a matter here had me AWOL. I am back again as of tonight (hopefully) now I know she is out of danger and recovering.

In the meantime I wondered if you would take a look at these two partial edits which are being claimed as 3x 5k+ articles, and probably as word count totals as well. In light of recent events, and my absence, I though it better that I defer to someone else until I am back properly and caught up with everything. The two edits are [2] and [3]

Thanks Chaosdruid (talk) 15:08, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Welcome back. You are definitely missed when you have to go away. Best wishes to your niece. I will check out these two links right away. --Dianna (talk) 15:12, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

I have investigated and made an adjustment to their totals and explained my findings here. Thank you for checking this out. --Dianna (talk) 15:49, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

A1 (Croatia)

Hi! I have recently added the A1 (Croatia) article to GOCE requests page before its FAC, and assumed it was copyedited as it disappeared from the request list. A review pointed out shortcomings with article suggesting a copyedit, and only then did I check if the copyedit was actually performed or not. Apparently you removed the request as duplicate two days ago, so would it be possible to restore the request in its original place in the queue in order to avoid one more wait? Thanks.--Tomobe03 (talk) 00:10, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Oops, my mistake. I will re-add this to the queue. Sorry --Dianna (talk) 02:26, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

No problem. Would you be at all interested in copyediting the article?--Tomobe03 (talk) 07:09, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Malleus thinks my work is crap, so there's not much point. --Dianna (talk) 15:36, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Hey

This is a really cool idea. Mind if I steal it? — Status {^talk_contribs  15:43, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Be my guest; it's a wiki. --Dianna (talk) 15:45, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

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Wikileaks hits Mayawati

sigh. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 00:35, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I will help you watch the article. --Dianna (talk) 00:38, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you very much Diannaa. It is nice to know you are keeping an eye on this. Take care. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 00:43, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

August Wikification Drive barnstars

		The WikiProject Wikify Badge
		This Wikification badge is given to Diannaa for her ninth-place appearance on the leaderboard in the August 2011 Wikification drive. Congratulations! Nolelover Talk·Contribs 21:00, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

	The Working Wikipedian's Barnstar
	This Working Wikipedian's Barnstar is also given to Diannaa for completing 32 articles in the August 2011 Wikification drive. Thanks, and keep up the great work! Nolelover Talk·Contribs 21:00, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks --Dianna (talk) 00:33, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

GOCE drive

Just to be perfectly clear: Getting an article on the list prodded doesn't count, even if it deserved it, right? Lagrange613 (talk) 06:30, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

If an editor copy edits an article and is is later deleted as a result of a prod, the article still counts towards the editor's drive totals. The same applies to articles speedied or deleted at AFD. --Dianna (talk) 18:01, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Hello

Hi Diannaa, thank you for the c/e on "Rehab" article. I really appreciate it, but could you also do copy-editing on the video section and it's three sub-sections, I personally think that there it is most needed. Thank You Tomica1111 • Question Existing? 11:55, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I will check it out. --Dianna (talk) 18:00, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Copy Edit please

Hello, just wanted to ask you if you would be O.K to copy edit the Canada's Wonderland article. After what you did to the WindSeeker article, I think you'll improve this article a lot as well.--Dom497 (talk) 22:55, 10 September 2011 (UTC)

I am going to copy this to the Requests page so it does not get forgotten. Never mind, it is already there. ;) --Dianna (talk) 04:10, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

So are you up to copy editing the copy edit?--Dom497 (talk) 13:10, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Yes or No???--Dom497 (talk) 00:18, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

If it is on the requests page, someone will get to it eventually. --Dianna (talk) 04:09, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Hmmmmmm..........

Would you mind taking a look at my work over at Cajun Fiddle? I tried to dive into a copyedit......but it's a mess. Did I convey that? Did I use the right template? I wish I'd been a bit more polite.....seeing how I totally "missed" ref name!! Do I just delete it from my "working" list??Bddmagic (talk) 04:18, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, if you are giving up, you should remove it from your list. Note the Skittle-pedia at the bottom of the page. I will have a look tomorrow. --Dianna (talk) 04:35, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

The Bugle: Issue LXVI, August 2011

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Help please.

Hi. I am Jivesh. Will you be able to copy-edit an article please? I have asked may people but they are all busy. Please reply. Jivesh • Talk2Me 17:56, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Good morning. If you will not get time to do it, can you please suggest me someone else? Jivesh • Talk2Me 05:36, 12 September 2011 (UTC)http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Signatures

There are really not a lot of people doing copy edits right now. As you probably noticed, the request page is backlogged. Please be patient and list your copy edit requests at the requests page once your other items listed there have been completed. Sorry the reply could not be more favourable. --Dianna (talk) 13:59, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

It does not matter Diannaa. I know form my friends that you are very nice and that you always help when possible. Best of luck with your work. See you. Take care. Jivesh • Talk2Me 16:16, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

A second look

I just finished copy editing Digital journalism; however, I would like a second copy editor to take a look at it, since it was a particularly difficult article to copy edit. Could you take a look at it? Thanks, The Utahraptor^Talk/_Contribs 00:14, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I will look at it tomorrow. -- Dianna (talk) 03:43, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

I have finished dealing with this article. This is a shockingly undersourced article considering the importance of the topic, but the copy editing process won't fix that. --Dianna (talk) 01:24, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

So do we both take credit for it in the drive? The Utahraptor^Talk/_Contribs 03:51, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

You can have credit for the drive. --Dianna (talk) 03:53, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks! The Utahraptor^Talk/_Contribs 12:56, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

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Right, now back definitely!

Hi

Sorry about that, my previous "I'm back" notice was shat on from a great height! The owner of the company I work for decided he was going to sell up and run away (well, that's my interpretation of it lol!). As a consequence I have been away from home much of the last week and only available for ten minutes here and there before falling asleep with my face in my food lol.

Anyway - things are calming down sort of and I have the rest of today off, though am back at work again till the weekend, so should be able to get some real work done (copyediting on Wiki lmao). Hope all is well - I aim to catch up on the September new additions project User:Chaosdruid/currentgoingson/Other (not touched for a week though) before getting down to some drive work.

Anything going on I need to know about? Chaosdruid (talk) 16:21, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

I also started to do some checks on Wikid77s work, but got a little stuck on how to proceed on List of Buso Renkin characters. There are some basic omissions, such as boldface left in, grammar and prose issues etc, but the main issue is that the article was tagged as being in-universe and their solution seems to be adding a line to the lead saying "The characters are described, below, using in-universe tone." [4] (also their solution on Chouseishin Gransazer). They are also doing edits in one block, and removing POV and other tags which I am not sure is appropriate. How do you suggest proceeding here? Chaosdruid (talk) 18:06, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

I have re-added the maintenance tags for the issues that have not been resolved, and done a little clean-up. Wikid should likely not be adding "span" to change the colour of text. That's all i have time to do right now as I have to be somewhere at 1 pm. More to follow. Regards, --Dianna (talk) 18:30, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

I have checked into it and they should not be adding "span" into the article. So I am going to remove that now. If you could offer suggerstions on their talk page as to how the copy edit itself could have been better, I would appreciate it as I have very limited time on wiki right now as I am doing a real-life thing that is consuming a lot of time right now. Thanks --Dianna (talk) 03:45, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Copyediting review

Hey, Diannaa. I've signed up to review copyedits in the drive. Several of the "copyedits" I've come across have simply been tag removals. Nothing done in bad faith; the articles simply didn't need copyediting. However, when they're added to a user's "completed" list, it obviously seems like they're taking credit for something they simply did not do. I was wondering if this is considered acceptable or not. Thanks, Swarm ^{u / t} 18:11, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately it is not acceptable. Can you provide some more details please? Chaosdruid (talk) 18:18, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Here and here. Someone else actually did the copyediting. I thought I came across a third, but for the life of me, I can't find it. Swarm ^{u / t} 19:03, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

I notice you have changed your sig a little! I think I preferred the old one, but I am sure this will grow on me :¬)

I think those are not acceptable as there was no editing done on the articles, simply removing tags is not really copyediting them :¬) I would wait for Diannaa to give you an affirmative action to take. There are some fairly obvious mistakes that should have been corrected though (dates with commas missing & the first paragraph of this section being two huge sentences, the second consisting of 78 words) so I am beginning to think that further checks may be needed. Chaosdruid (talk) 19:15, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

Swarm, if you have time, it might be worthwhile to check all her drive copy edits and any that consist of only tag removal cannot be counted towards the Drive. Thanks. --Dianna (talk) 03:43, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

No problem. Swarm ^{u / t} 04:14, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks so much :) --Dianna (talk) 04:16, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

After a review, I can confirm that those are the only two simple tag removals. It seems she was addressing copyedit tags that specified problems with ordinals (i.e. 44st, 21th). While she fixed the ordinals, she seemingly neglected to address the rest of the articles before de-tagging. Just within her first six articles, one still needed quite a bit of copyediting, and one was an obvious copyvio (from its single source). Skipping down the list at random, this leaves multiple short, unnecessary sections and lots of redundant information, and here a few commas are added but the language remains sloppy and in need of attention. While I don't enjoy sifting through contributions to find errors, in my opinion, Wilhelmina Will (while obviously capable of doing a great job) simply isn't being thorough enough. Anyway, I'd seek your further advise on the matter (or handle it how you want, or just tell me what you want me to do, really doesn't make a difference :P).

On a more positive note, my skeptical self looked through dozens of other 'completed' articles at random and overall, the thorough, dedicated work that's being done is fantastic. :) Swarm ^{u / t} 05:55, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

I see you have added remarks on her section of the drive page and removed one article, so I consider the check complete.. That's fantastic, as I will not have much time of the wiki until the weekend. I appreciate the time and effort you have put into this. I have corrected the leader board. --Dianna (talk) 14:18, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Copy edit

Thank you for your recent copy edit of WP:ADMAN. Your efforts have increased the readability by considerable margin. I hope your edit serves also as an endorsement of viability for the essay as well. And that perhaps you can find use for it in notifying some fine prospects that you have likely encountered. Again, thanks for bringing a rather in demand skill to bear on this essay, fine grammar and punctuation. My76Strat (talk) 05:10, 14 September 2011 (UTC)

Deletion

Hi Diannaa! Can you delete the 3 minutes 36 seconds long version of this file (that's the whole song uploaded!) Thanks, Novice7 (talk) 05:31, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

 Done --Dianna (talk) 05:37, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Diannaa. Novice7 (talk) 05:39, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Navbox color changes

I wish that you had not changed the navbox colors on the steamboat and ferries navboxes without prior consultation with other editors. I'm not going go all wikilawyer here, but it was my understanding that navbox colors, once selected by an editor, were not to be changed. I don't have time to find this guideline now, but I know that it exists. IMHO the standard colors make these navboxes less readable. While certainly I am open to discussion about this, it seems that you should have discussed the matter first.Mtsmallwood (talk) 21:01, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Adding colour to templates has an adverse impact on people reading WIkipedia with a screen reader, and poorly chosen color choices will adversely affect people who are colour blind or who need a high amount of contrast to discern the text (see WP:COLOR). WP:Deviations says that styles for tables and other block-level elements should be set using CSS classes, not with inline style attributes. The site-wide CSS in MediaWiki:Common.css has been carefully tested to ensure accessibility, such as adequate colour contrast, and compatibility with a wide range of browsers. What seems readable to you on your computer with your operating system, your browser, etc. will look very different to me, or to someone reading Wikipedia from an i-phone or a cell phone. In general, it is not a good idea to add random colours to templates or other areas of article space, as when the default site-wide classes are overridden, it makes it far more difficult for an individual to choose his/her own theme in their own preferences to accommodate problems such as visual impairments. --Dianna (talk) 01:25, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

you still didn't consult prior to making the change. Pshaw, wikipedia can get somebody else to write these articles.Mtsmallwood (talk) 05:08, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

I apologise for not consulting you. -- Dianna (talk) 05:17, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Years of work on this whole area and not even a thank you, just "poor color choices". I'm done.Mtsmallwood (talk) 05:22, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that. --Dianna (talk) 05:32, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

(talk page stalker)

Mtsmallwood: We're all volunteers here - getting a thank you is nice (and I see on your talk page history that you've received several over the years). It's a shame to throw out and discount all those past thank yous from multiple editors because someone made some edits with which you disagree. I urge you to consider just taking a break and return if/when you feel like editing again later.

Deanna: For what it's worth, I agree with resetting to the default colors, which has also been endorsed by community consensus in multiple discussions and which is documented at WP:Deviations and WP:Navbox#Properties. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 05:35, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Mr Smallwood, I am sorry if you feel like quitting. It is an unexpected outcome, for sure. --Dianna (talk) 05:38, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Mid-drive newsletter

Is it too late to write a mid-drive newsletter? If not I'll get to work on it immediately. The Utahraptor^Talk/_Contribs 13:28, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

that is a great idea. Thank you for your help. --Dianna (talk) 16:01, 18 September 2011 (UTC)

Sorry Dianna, a few things just came up in RL, so I probably won't be able to get to this until tomorrow afternoon at earliest. The Utahraptor^Talk/_Contribs 02:40, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

The draft is available for editing here. Sorry if it's short and sloppy; I'm in a bit of a hurry today. The Utahraptor^Talk/_Contribs 21:39, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

Curious

I don't know if it's okay to talk about, I usually keep my nose out of these things. What happened to JM - know who I mean? I can't make it out from the diffs. He seemed like a nice guy, helped me with stuff. SlightSmile 01:22, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

I remember he made that lovely box for your user page. Sorry, I don't know where he is at the moment. :( --Dianna (talk) 01:27, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

The Signpost: 19 September 2011

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Talkback

Hello, Diannaa. You have new messages at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Newsletters/September 2011/2#Comments.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--The Utahraptor^Talk/_Contribs 16:26, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

GOCE drive newsletter

Guild of Copy Editors September 2011 backlog elimination drive update GOCE September 2011 backlog elimination drive progress graphs Greetings from the Guild of Copy Editors September 2011 Backlog elimination drive! Here's the mid-drive newsletter. Participation We have had 55 people sign up for this drive so far, and 31 have participated. If you have signed up but have not yet copy edited any articles, please consider doing so. Every bit helps! It's not too late to join the drive if you have not already done so. Another great way to help out is to watch-list the Coordinators talk page and participate in the ongoing development of the Guild. Progress report So far, we have reduced the backlog by 75 articles, or about 19% of our goal. We have also cleared January 2010 off of the queue and are close to clearing off February and March. If each participant were to copy edit two articles from February and March 2010, they would be completely eliminated from the queue. Rollover words Several concerns have been brought up this drive about the usage of rollover words. Rollover words only count if they're from the previous drive. For example, if you received 1,000 rollover words in March and didn't participate in May, your rollover words return to zero. This is to encourage participation in multiple consecutive drives. Your drive coordinators – Diannaa, Chaosdruid, The Utahraptor, Slon02 and SMasters

Sent on behalf of the Guild of Copy Editors using AWB on 05:29, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

• Dianaa: Just copyedited my first article for a drive (Ammar Abdulhamid) and wonder (separately, beyond that article): is there any way Wikipedia could have the articles requested for copyediting sliced and diced in ways addition to alphabetical? Most helpful, IMHO, would be by broad wiki topics. For instance, the majority of entries I edit on my own for Wikipedia have to do with the Cold War and Espionage, two major wiki topics. -- Just a thought -- Aboudaqn (talk)

You can sort the articles requiring copy edit using CatScan. Instructions appear here. Thank you for your interest in helping out with copy edits. -- Dianna (talk) 04:32, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Special Barnstar
	For lending a helping hand in copy-editing Jagadguru Rambhadracharya which was a required work to get the article to GA status. ♛♚★Vaibhav Jain★♚♛ Talk Email 07:56, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Copy-editor needed

Good morning (as your clock shows above :))! Could you copy-edit the article Jovan Vladimir? I've listed it for peer review, but I would really appreciate a quality copy-editing. I think that after that the article could be given a try at FAC. Vladimir (talk) 16:29, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Hi, Vladimir, and sorry for the delay in replying. I have decided to work on the article and will get started today or tomorrow. --Dianna (talk) 17:43, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad for your decision :) The article is quite comprehensive, and I would also like it to be well written. If you find anything not clear enough, I'll be glad to clarify. Vladimir (talk) 15:42, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for your copy-edits. Vladimir (talk) 18:41, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Interview with Wikimedia Foundation

Hi Diannaa, I hope you're well. My name is Aaron and I'm one of the Storytellers working on the 2011 fundraiser for the Wikimedia Foundation. For this year's campaign, we're interviewing as many of the very active and productive Wikipedians as we can to broaden the range of appeals we run come November. I wonder if you would want to tell me more about your experiences editing and writing here? If so, I'll ask you your personal story and I'll ask you some general questions about Wikipedia. Please let me know if you're interesting by emailing amuszalskiwikimedia.org. Thanks! Aaron (WMF) (talk) 01:01, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the invitation. I have sent an e-mail. --Dianna (talk) 05:33, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

RevDel request

The second most recent edit to Praful Bidwai seems to satisfy criterion 2 of WP:CRD. Thanks. Lagrange613 (talk) 19:37, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

 Done - Dianna (talk) 20:12, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. I've got another one for you: the last four edits to Washington and Lee University. Lagrange613 (talk) 03:58, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

 Done --Dianna (talk) 04:25, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Debra

Thanks for copyediting the Debra article! (BTW, do you think it could be a GA with a few tweaks?) And also, at the end of the meteorological history section, I added a string of refs for the tornadoes. Is there a way I could make it look less crazy? HurricaneFan25 20:38, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

I will get back to you on this, i got banking to do. TTYL --Dianna (talk) 20:51, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

I have done a thing using Ref Group Note, which can be reverted if you no likee. --Dianna (talk) 04:41, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

Battle in Berlin

Thanks, that will be most helpful. The usual way I check in an article of that size is to move all the general references into further reading and then systematically go through the each inline citation and move the general reference back up if it is used. I don't think Bibliography is an appropriate heading for two reasons the OED has four definitions for Bibliography (one is archaic) the closes fit to your usage is "4. A list of the books of a particular author, printer, or country, or of those dealing with any particular theme; the literature of a subject." but a general reference section is likely to include bullets points for journals, websites and newspapers all of which are not books so titling a section thus is confusing for readers, and, if the list does not to date include anything but books, may be seen by new editors as restricting. The second reason -- which does not apply in this case is -- is for biography articles. If the subject of the biography wrote books, it is not uncommon to call the section that list them a biography (which does fit the fourth definition in the OED) so naming the general reference section bibliography in biography articles is confusing. -- PBS (talk) 21:51, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

October 2011 Wikification drive

Delivered by MessageDeliveryBot on behalf of WikiProject Wikify at 16:35, 25 September 2011 (UTC).

The Signpost: 26 September 2011

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Read this Signpost in full · Single-page · Unsubscribe · EdwardsBot (talk) 01:11, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Please check copy editing quality

Hi. I've copy edited a few articles for the Sept drive. My first time. Would you mind checking one or two of them to see if my work is up to the expected standards. My articles are listed here. I'm pretty familiar with the MOS, and I read the copy-editing instructions, so I think I've got a good grasp of the expectations. But it is always good to have another pair of eyes. Thanks. --Noleander (talk) 21:38, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Ok, will do tomorrow --Dianna (talk) 05:01, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

I have done some spot checks and everything seems ok. I will do a more detailed look at one of them on the weekend. Thank you for your interest in helping out with copy editing. Regards, --Dianna (talk) 14:20, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Flatlist

Hello Dianaa. Regarding your changes to the Edmonton elections template, I have a few problems. Firstly the flatlist produces an error in the template, i.e. it produces dot separators after the end of the last link in each group, which shouldn't appear. Secondly, it makes the templates look awkward as the dots are not centrered between the links, but rather very close to the right-hand link, making it unbalanced. Thirdly, this change is not in line with the accessibility policy, which suggests that it is to be used only for lists in articles (Despite having hundreds of templates on my watchlist and editing hundreds more, I've never seen this before). I don't believe in applying it to only one or two templates unless you are going to do all of them, and for this you will need consensus to implement it accross Wikipedia. I suggest first trying to resolve problems 1 and 2, and then bringing up the subject at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Accessibility or the Village Pump. Cheers, Number 57 19:45, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

It is not the Flatlist template that is producing these errors; it looks fine in Firefox and in Chrome. I expect you are viewing the page with an outdated browser, probably an older version of Windows Internet Explorer. The Flatlist template is now an accepted way to present list material in navigation templates, as seen in the documentation at Template:Navbox#Examples. Regards, --Dianna (talk) 02:36, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

I use IE9 at home and the problem still appears. Sadly this is a common problem across Wikipedia that often people solve problems in Firefox, but forget that more people use IE. I'm more than happy for flatlist to be used, but those issues have to be resolved first (including for older versions of IE (probably back to 6 or 7), which are still commonly used). Number 57 08:42, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

I don't agree that having the dots a pixel or two out of alignment in some browsers is sufficient justification for removing this elegant template from our nav boxes. The fact that the flatlist generates a better quality experience for vision impaired users trumps this minor issue with the dots, imho. Sorry you do not agree. With over 16,000 transclusions and growing all the time, I am sure you will be seeing more of flatlist in the future. Sincerely, -- Dianna (talk) 04:40, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

It is not a pixel or two out of alignment, it is totally misaligned, and there is also the problem of the additional dots after the end of the lists. I don't understand why you are not willing to try to fix this. Number 57 10:44, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Template as displayed in Firefox 7 (also Chrome & Opera)

Template as displayed in Internet Explorer 8

This is how the template displays in different browsers. I find your assertion that "it is totally misaligned" to be wholly unconvincing, and you either need to demonstrate your problem or retract that unhelpful rhetoric. Numerous people spent a lot of time trying to make a horizontal list that actually was a list and didn't make a screen-reader say things like "1892, dot, 1893, dot ...". It is a simple truth that Internet Explorer does not meet the standards that other browsers do. The relevant definition in MediaWiki:Common.css is .hlist li:last-child { background: none; } and IE8 is unable to understand that no background image is to be used for the last element in the list. All other browsers can. Sighted visitors to Wikipedia almost always have the choice to use a standards-compatible browser, while blind visitors have no choice other than using a screen-reader. Your reversions of the use of flatlist makes the experience for visually-impaired readers significantly worse at the price of 3 extra dots among over 80 - and only for those visitors who choose to use a non-standards-compliant browser. Frankly, you really ought to be thinking hard about what you're asking for. --RexxS (talk) 01:16, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

If you need proof, please see below. The misalignment is much stronger than in your IE8 version (mostly to the right hand side of the gap between links, but if you look at the end of the row, you can see that the dot actually touches the last character). Like I said, I have no problem at all with flatlist being used if this problem is resolved, but I really fail to understand why you and Dianaa are so unwilling to try and do so. The hostility of your post is also unwelcome (saying that my claim is "wholly unconvincing" and "unhelpful rhetoric"), and I also cannot understand why you think I would lie about such things. Number 57 01:28, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

Without compatibility mode

The misalignment is indeed stronger and is also inconsistent among elements, as each element has the same defined padding on the right of 0.6 em and your browser is failing to deliver that. I'd have to ask why you would choose to use a browser that seems incapable of consistently following the simple CSS declaration padding: 0em 0.6em 0em 0em;? I'm sorry you misread my exasperation as hostility, but I've spent many hours looking at the problems involved in these developments and it's very unfair of you to repeatedly assert that I'm unwilling to resolve a problem, when you really have no idea of the amount of work put into {{Flatlist}} by so many people. There's no magic wand I can wave to make IE9 render CSS in the same way that FF, Chrome, Opera, Safari, etc. do. That's a job for Microsoft. By all means, have a look in MediaWiki:Common.css at the section /* Style for horizontal lists (separator following item) */ – if you can spot a way of making IE9 display those instructions properly (i.e. as defined by W3C), then I'll do my best to get that implemented. In the meantime, is it really helpful to edit-war against changes that improve the accessibility of the template? --RexxS (talk) 02:06, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

With compatibility mode turned on

I have installed IE 9 so that I could see for myself. You are right: it looks worse in IE 9 than it did in IE 8. However, I also discovered that if I switch to "Compatibility mode" the problem goes away, and the page displays correctly. There is a button up top in the URL window that looks like a ripped piece of paper. This is the button you can use to get Internet Explorer to display pages correctly :) I hear IE 10 is already in the works. I switched to Firefox some time ago and have no regrets, believe me. --Dianna (talk) 04:13, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate the fact that you both see what the problem is. However [to RexxS), questioning why I choose to use the wrong browser is the least helpful answer possible. Regardless of your opinions on it, IE is the most popular browser - you can't expect everyone using it to stop doing so because you have solved a problem in Firefox and Chrome. To Diannaa - switching compatibility view on may solve the problem, but why should users have to click an additional button to see something displayed properly? This feature isn't available to older versions of IE (I'd guess IE7 is possibly still the most widespread. Anyway, it seems we are getting nowhere here so I will ask someone else for help instead. Number 57 08:46, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

On the contrary, if you are having problems with a particular piece of software, the *most* helpful question I can ask is why you are using it, as sometimes people are forced to use particular software for reasons beyond their control. As for IE, its popularity has nothing to do with its capability, and everything to do with the inertia of most users. Compatibility mode exists on IE8 as well, and it is interesting that Microsoft has chosen a different trigger for IE9 to switch automatically to compatibility mode (see MSDN). It seems we will have to persuade the Wikimedia developers to include the HTML5 doctype declaration on every page if we want to avoid the inconvenience of you having to click another button. You could ask for help at Template talk:Flatlist or MediaWiki talk:Common.css, or even file a request at Wikimedia's Bugzilla. --RexxS (talk) 09:37, 1 October 2011 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

MEeeow FURgot to give a kitty 2 u 4 ur help on Debra (itz a GA nowz) mrow ;)

HurricaneFan25 17:37, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

Not kitty; kitteh. Thx --Dianna (talk) 18:26, 29 September 2011 (UTC)