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Latest comment: 3 years ago by AngusWOOF in topic Your submission at Articles for creation: Boys World (April 10)
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Spice Books

Latest comment: 3 years ago59 comments2 people in discussion

Hi Bennv, just lo let you know that I now have access to the Sinclair and McGibbon books. Tell me if you have any specific pages or sections so I can start looking. Regards. Frcm1988 (talk) 00:57, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

@Frcm1988: Hey, great to hear from you. There's quite some stuff that I'm looking for so I'll break it up by chapter to hopefully make things easier for you.
@Frcm1988: Oh and may I know what the ISBN of your edition of the book is? Thanks. Bennv3771 (talk) 03:13, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Im changing the book reference in the articles I updated the past few months to accurately portray where I got the info. Is the same book, but the cover has a new name Spice Girls Revisited, released in 2008 with a picture of the group from their 2007 reunion announcement. Inside there's also a foreword from Simon Fuller dated 2005, so Im assuming this is not included in the 2004 original release. Im changing the reference to the 2008 book since the page numbers might by different from the 2004 version (not sure): Frcm1988 (talk) 15:57, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Sinclair, David (2008). Spice Girls Revisited (2nd ed.). Omnibus Press. ISBN 978-1-84609-068-4.
For the Sinclair book, could you help me look up the page numbers for the following sections:

Chapter 2

  1. The section about their early songs "very,very young pop...none of the songs they worked on or demoed at this stage were eventually used by the SG."
The first part of this section where Herbert describes the struggle with Geri is in p. 28, the actual quote from Michelle is at the very beginning of p. 29. Frcm1988 (talk) 16:07, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
  1. The section where they showed the contracts Heart gave them to their parents, with Tony Adam's advice to "Forget it".
p. 34. Frcm1988 (talk) 16:07, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
  1. The section where he talks about how they split the vocal duties equally: "Surprisingly little attention has been paid...their all-in-it together girl-gang image."
p. 30. Frcm1988 (talk) 16:07, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Bennv3771 (talk) 02:54, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Chapter 3

  1. The start of chapter 3: "The received wisdom ... best known at the time for their collaborations with East 17."
p. 40. Frcm1988 (talk) 16:45, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
  1. The section on their songwriting: "But according to Wilson this was never the case ... weird ability to come up with to come up with phrases that you'd never heard of."
p. 53. Frcm1988 (talk) 16:45, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
  1. Long quote by Elliot Kennedy about writing with them: "They were able to turn it on instantly..."
Immediately after Watkin's and Wilson's comments at p. 53 and continues on p. 54. Frcm1988 (talk) 16:45, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
  1. Section about splitting the royalties between themselves five-way ("What the Spice Girls recognised was that their solidarity ...") all the way to the paragraph about them splitting the royalties 50-50 with their collaborators.
pp. 51–52. Frcm1988 (talk) 16:45, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
  1. "Geri in particular was clearly a fund of ideas..." all the way to the quote by Watkins about Geri coming up with a concept and Mel C and Emma singing melodies.
End of p. 54. Frcm1988 (talk) 16:45, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Bennv3771 (talk) 02:54, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Chapter 4

  1. That whole section on Peter Lorraine/TOTP giving them their nicknames, ending with Nicki Chapman's 'taxi driver' quote.
Starts at the end of p. 77 and continues at p. 78 closing the chapter. Frcm1988 (talk) 16:25, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
  1. Section about American rapper Spice 1 leading them to change their name from Spice to Spice Girls.
Middle of p. 77. Frcm1988 (talk) 16:25, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Bennv3771 (talk) 03:37, 4 March 2021 (UTC)


@Frcm1988: Could you also help me look these up?

p. 76. Frcm1988 (talk) 17:17, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Nicki Chapman finding the media were resistant to the all girl group format, all the way to Kate Thornton saying it's too threatening, "It's not going to happen." etc Bennv3771 (talk) 11:43, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Kate Thornton - p. 76.
Chris Evans - p. 77. Frcm1988 (talk) 17:17, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
@Frcm1988: Hi, could you help me look up the sections near the start of Chapter 4, where Sinclair mentions Shampoo's song "Girl Power", on to him saying Geri was the author of the group's girl power concept, all the way to Mel C's quote about "To be a feminist in the Nineties...". Also, if there's a page break in this section, could you tell me where it occurs. Thanks. Bennv3771 (talk) 12:44, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
The first line in page 60 is "Much has been said and written about the idea of 'girl power'...", all of Mel C's quote is in the same page. The next paragraph is divided between pages 60 and 61:

Chapter 5

  1. The paragraph where Sinclair decries Milli Vanilli and Westlife, and says the first two Spice Girls albums are "among the finest to have come from a 'pure' pop group..." all the way to the paragraph where he talks about musical stylings in Spiceworld ("... the Spice Girls repertoire was ... good-time dance-pop wizardry.") Bennv3771 (talk) 03:52, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
pp. 87–89 Frcm1988 (talk) 16:25, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Chapter 6

  1. The section about them starting to work on both the album and film in June, and the grueling schedule etc. Bennv3771 (talk) 04:00, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Marketing meeting for Spiceworld in summer, promotional trip to the Far East in April, May, work on film and album in June. p. 113–114.
Info about the movie script on p. 114–115.
Finished filming in September, moved to Cannes to start reherseals for Istanbul, daily routine, Geri and Victoria hated this period. p. 116-117.

I added info about this period for the background section of "Spice Up Your Life" and "Viva Forever" also using Halliwell's and Brown's autobiographies. Let me know if you need something else about this. Frcm1988 (talk) 17:28, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

@Frcm1988: Hi, could you help me look up the page number(s) from Chapter 6 for the entire paragraph on the release of Mama/Who Do You Think You Are? Starts off with "The following month they released the fourth and final single..." all the way to them being the first act to have four number 1s with their first four singles. Much appreciated. Bennv3771 (talk) 17:36, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
pp. 105–106. Frcm1988 (talk) 19:33, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Chapter 9

  1. Section about there being no lead singer in their songs: "Normally in vocal groups.. amount of time Melanie C's and Victoria's voices are featured ... is negligible."
p. 164. Frcm1988 (talk) 16:09, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Bennv3771 (talk) 03:30, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Additional

@Frcm1988: Thanks so much! You've been a massive help. I think you may have missed the Chapter 6 section. And besides that one, I just realised there's one more section I'm looking for...

From Chapter 8:
  1. The sections where Sinclair counters the media backlash ("The fact was, it hadn't occurred...") all the way to Q magazine finding them to be the biggest band in the world ("This was an astonishing turn-up for the books ...") Bennv3771 (talk) 17:23, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
pp. 148–149. Frcm1988 (talk) 18:04, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

By the way, do you have the Wikipedia Library Card? since you are looking how they divided the songs, the vocal styles, etc. there are a couple of papers of JSTOR about "Say You'll Be There" and "Wannabe" where they discuss a little about this.

Also thanks a lot for the barnstar. Regards. Frcm1988 (talk) 18:04, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

@Frcm1988: Yes, I do have access to those. I'll look into them, thanks. I hate to keep bothering you ... but I think these are the last page numbers I need from the Sinclair book:
All from Chapter 4
  • The part where Simon Fuller became their manager in May 1995. (oh and the section shortly before that about him being the one to contact the group through his connection with Absolute)
Relation with Absolute, heard a tape of "Something Kinda Funny", first meeting and "Wannabe" karaoke performance at his office on p. 66. Frcm1988 (talk) 18:53, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Background on Fuller, worked with Lennox and Dennis on p. 67, actual sentence of signing with the Spice Girls on p. 68. Frcm1988 (talk) 18:53, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
  • The part where they sign with Virgin in July 1995.
p. 70. Frcm1988 (talk) 18:53, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
  • The Spice Girls article also cites the Sinclair book for the bit about them signing a music publishing deal with Windswept Pacific. I can't find this in the Sinclair book though. Any idea?
Bennv3771 (talk) 18:15, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
I can't find anything on Sinclair's book either, however there is a Billboard article from 10 August 1996 "Alexia Baum: Purveyor of film songs" where Baum mentions that their London office signed with the Spice Girls, doesn't specify a date however. Frcm1988 (talk) 18:53, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
On their official book their is a mention about this dated November 1995: "The girls signed with music publishers Windswept Pacific, then head to LA for a promotional tour."
And this is the Billboard source where the senior director of Windswept mentions the signing with the Spice Girls:

Additional Part 2

@Frcm1988: Sorry to bother you again, but it turns out there's more page numbers I need your help with. Bennv3771 (talk) 13:07, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm hoping to remove and replace all citations to the official website Timeline, hence all the new page numbers needed. There's no rush though, so take as much time as you need. Thanks again. Bennv3771 (talk) 06:34, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

From Chapter 1:

  • The sections covering Bob and Chris deciding to form a girl group to compete with boy bands, and putting an ad in The Stage.
p. 3–4 idea
p. 5 The Stage ad Frcm1988 (talk) 01:51, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
  • The section on Geri not being at the first audition but talking her way into the second one.
p. 5–6. Frcm1988 (talk) 01:51, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
  • The section introducing Chic Murphy: "Much of this was, once again, down to the foresight and organisational ... a Surrey businessman called Chic Murphy.
p. 8. Frcm1988 (talk) 01:51, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Moving into Chic Murphy's house: "Murphy owned a house in Boyne Hill Road, Maidenhead..." and the subsequent sections covering the dance and vocal training they went through.
p. 10–12. Frcm1988 (talk) 01:51, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Bennv3771 (talk) 06:34, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

@Frcm1988: Thanks for your continuing help. If you don't mind, which pages are these Chapter 1 sections from:

p. 11–12. Frcm1988 (talk) 22:27, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
  • The section where Pepi Lemer says she gets angry when people say they can't sing, all the way to her describing their individual voices (lightness of Emma's voice, soulfulness of the Mels etc) Bennv3771 (talk) 16:32, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
p. 17. Frcm1988 (talk) 22:27, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

From Chapter 2:

  • The paragraph on the Herberts deciding to call the group Touch, all the way to the section about Geri being the "engine behind the band."
p. 28. Frcm1988 (talk) 01:28, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
@Frcm1988: Hi, is the section a bit before that on Victoria, Geri, the Mels and Michelle being the chosen five at the end of the auditions (and moving into the bed and breakfast near Windsor) from p. 27? Bennv3771 (talk) 12:06, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Yes p. 27. Frcm1988 (talk) 16:16, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
  • The sections on the search for Michelle Stephenson's replacement, covering Abigail Kas and ending with Geri's reaction to meeting Emma Bunton/Bunton fitting in well.
p. 31. Frcm1988 (talk) 01:28, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Bennv3771 (talk) 06:34, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

From Chapter 4:

  • The paragraph on them already being established before Fuller signed them to his company ("But they were already well established by the time Fuller came ...")
p. 68. Frcm1988 (talk) 01:37, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
  • The pages covering Virgin being unsure of how to market them. Starting from "It was to be exactly a year before the Spice Girls released their first single ..." all the way to the paragraph about "Perhaps it was because of the untried and untested nature of the allgirl formula..."
pp. 71–73. Frcm1988 (talk) 01:37, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Bennv3771 (talk) 13:07, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

From chapter 3:

Yes, Wilson p. 49. Frcm1988 (talk) 16:30, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Timeline

Latest comment: 3 years ago14 comments2 people in discussion

Something that just came back to me from your recent edits on the group's article is about the timeline. Many of the sources have different dates for certain key moments of the group's beginnings including when they left the Herberts, meeting with Eliot Kennedy, signing with Virgin Records, among others. It doesn't help that the girls themselves used to lie about when they actually met at the very beginning (perhaps they tought it gave them more credibility if they "met" before the Herberts"). I think even the timeline of their official books and website used to say they met in 1992-1993 while doing auditions.

Maybe at some point we could compare the different dates from the books, biographies, online sources, etc and compromise on the dates to put on the article. In the following days I will give you an example of one of the inconsistencies in the dates. Regards. Frcm1988 (talk) 19:12, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

@Frcm1988: Yeah, I just used the Timeline from their old official website as a placeholder until I can find a better reference. That timeline is definitely not reliable since it seems to be based on the things they were claiming in the 1990s, back when they weren't being truthful about their ages and when the band formed etc. I think the Sinclair dates should probably be accurate, but if you find more credible sources that dispute the date he gives, do let me know. Bennv3771 (talk) 19:24, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
@Frcm1988: Looking through the 'Formation and early years' section of the Spice Girls article, and it might need a bit of an overhaul. A lot of it is based on this timeline from the old official website, which is just a mess and full of inaccuracies. Bennv3771 (talk) 19:59, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
Yeah that period is kinda confusing with the dates, even the books say different things. I recall while doing "Say You'll Be The" that the dates they left the Herberts and when they met Kennedy were all over the place, Sinclair has a date, McGibbon has a date, Halliwell's autobiography has a different thing, but the timeline of the events didn't match with Victoria's autobiography. Just a mess, ha ha. Frcm1988 (talk) 20:12, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Leaving Heart Management

This is one of the key moments that has different dates on various sources:

  • 3 March 1995 - McGibbon
p. 100.
  • End of March 1995 - Sinclair
p. 44.
p. 140.
  • First Sunday in May, Halliwell said she received a call from Bob asking why they haven't signed the contracts. - If Only
p. 181.
  • On her book, Victoria mentions that Chic insisted to do some celebration for her 21st bithday, apparently a few days before the actual day, she says on Easter Monday 1995, they went to a casino, and she mentions that he gave the group chips to play in what she calls looked like a last-ditch attempt to persuade them to stay with Heart. If this is true, theis will put the date at least on the middle of April. Learning to Fly
p. 130–132.

This will also make the meeting with Kennedy have different dates. Frcm1988 (talk) 17:03, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

@Frcm1988: The Sean Smith book from 2019 says the casino trip with Chic was an early celebration for Victoria's birthday, but he doesn't say when it took place exactly. Then he says that they ditched Heart Management (with a staged fight) at the start of March, and they were scheduled to have their session with Kennedy after that weekend. That would have to be a very early birthday celebration to have taken place before the start of March though. Bennv3771 (talk) 18:11, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
In her book, Victoria mentions: "Chic's treat was in fact a week before my actual birthday, which in 1995 was on Easter Monday, and for that my mum had organized tea at the Ritz followed by Miss Saigon. It was nearly three months since Bob and Chris had given us the contracts to sign. We hadn't said yes, we hadn't said no. We'd just stalled."
p. 130.
So that would put the Chic's celebration around 10 April, and Victoria commented about other topics before mentioning them leaving Heart. (Her actual birthday celebration, breakin up with her then boyfriend Mark).
p.132–133.
Meeting Corey Haim (they dated for a little while), she mentions that she met him through Stannard and Rowe, they were working in "2 Become 1" and he was there trying to launch a muic career. She mentions that she was miserable because of Mark, and Geri made Rowe ask Corey to go to his flat with some friends. So this will be after 17 April.
p. 134.
Victoria mentions the Heart Management departure at this point. Altough no dates are given, and we don't know for sure if Victoria wrote every single event in her book chronologically.
pp-137–138. Frcm1988 (talk) 20:00, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Firing Fuller

@Frcm1988: Hi, hope all is well with you. When you get the time, could you help me look up what Geri/Victoria/Mel B say with regards to Fuller's firing? The Spice Girls article currently says: "After [their MTV Europe Music Awards] performance, the Spice Girls made the decision to take over the running of the group themselves, and fired their manager Simon Fuller." Which as far as I know is not entirely accurate, timeline wise. Bennv3771 (talk) 10:44, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi Bennv the decision to fire Simon I think started to build around the rehearsals for Istanbul in September, probably the fact that they had to record the album and do the movie at the same time during the summer didn't help. Frcm1988 (talk) 03:25, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Geri's version

Geri starts complaining in her book around September 1997:

  • The group went to a mansion in the south of France to start rehearsals for Istanbul, she called it "Spice Camp" on the 17th of September. The previous weeks had been frenetic as they went back and forth between the UK and the US: MTV Video Music Awards and filming the "Spice Up Your Life" music video.
pp. 288–289.
  • Rehearsals were more intense than anything they did before. They had to "prove" they could do the live show to the press and industry critics. The decision to do it in Istanbul was purely for marketing reasons, and chosen by Pepsi. They built a replica of the Istanbul stage nearby so they could practice. She describes her routine, waking up at 7, gym, breakfast, and then to the stage, rehearsals with the band and dance routines in a studio. She would arrive earlier to have extra time with the choreographer, lunch, band rehearsal, sessions with a vocal coach, another dance lesson, returned to the mansion, aerobics class. And the same every day. The first week they flew to London to sing with Elton John in An Audience with...
pp. 290–292.
  • After the concerts (12 and 13 of October), she daid they didn't have the chance to enjoy the afterglow. They inmediately had a punishing schedule. Egypt, Singapore, Bangkok, Delhi, Hong Kong and Japan. Geri mentions that at the after party in Istanbul her eating disorder started to re-appear, she has been dieting and exercising in France. She started with the binge eating at the after party and then at the hotels in Singapore, Bangkok and Delhi. They appeared at the Channel V music awards and flew to Hong Kong and then Japan. Simon had traveled from Singapore straight to Tokyo. She wrote on her diary: "We are all exhausted. I told Simon it was a shit schedule. Guess what! We all have to work tomorrow. I'm praying that I get malaria so we get a day off. [...] I am so miserable and sad. All I do is eat. Is it frustation? Loneliness? Pressure? I don't know why."
pp. 296–297.
  • Simon had damaged his back and needed an operation in New York, his problem re-appear in Tokyo and he arranged for a flight to London for another operation. In the book Geri mentions that she told the girls that she was going to ask Simon for a week off, her bulimia had come back and she couldn't continue like that anymore. When they arrived in London she went to the hospital to see Simon and explained how terrible she was during the trip and that she needed some time off. He told her: "There are 2 reasons, Geri. One, it sets a bad precedent among the girls. If you take a week off then everybody will be asking for one. And two, we sold 18 million copies of the first album. That set the benchmark. We want to sell 19 million copies this time." She was very upset and arranged a meeting with their lawyer Andrew Thompson, because she wanted to know her legal standing with Simon, but the meeting would have to wait until they came back from a scheduled trip to South Africa.
pp. 297–298.
  • Diary entry on Friday, 24 October 1997: "The last 2 weeks have been an absolute nightmare. What have I learned from all of this? This has been a fantasy, a dream. I have worked my tail off to get this far and it hasn't been easy. I have lost my faith in Simon... "A man will break up this group," he once said to me. Ironic really."
p. 298.
  • Then they went to Germany to collect an award (I believe this is The Bambi Awards), then to Paris. She said that she tried to distract herself but couldn't hide the fact that the Simon situation had to be resolved. She mentions that at first Simon was very good at sorting out internal problems and disagreements, but with time they began to turn to Simon to sort out personal problems, the press had been labeling him "The Sixth Spice Girl" or "Svengali Spice". She mentions that all of then had been complaining about Simon at various times, nothing surprising, but it was different this time, she said that she realized that she was quite prepared to leave. First she would talk to the lawyers and then make a decision.
pp. 299–300.
  • The next days they were between London and Paris for various photo shoots, advertisement for Spiceworld, the Polaroid launch, and the Poppy Day Appeal. Then on November they flew to South Africa, met President Mandela, they did a performance for the Prince's Trust in Johannesburg, met Charles and Harry. Simon had missed the South African trip because of his disc operation and was recuperating in Italy. The group arrived in the UK on 4 November. Geri reunited the next day with Andrew Thompson and the group's financial adviser Charles Bradbook. Geri said that after talking with them she realized that she didn't wanted to leave the group, she wanted to get rid of Simon. Mel B then called Geri and when Geri told her that she was with the lawyers at her house, Mel B went there, she also was ready to sack Simon. She said that before doing anything she had to consider what the other were thinking. She was fairly sure about Victoria because of hints she left in France and then again in South Africa.
pp. 300–304.
  • Geri and Mel B began plotting, it wasn't that easy, the world tour was coming next year, the movie was about to premiere in December, and the album just launched. Simon managed everything, he had all the phone numbers, dates, the entire schedules and contacts. All of the people around them was on his payroll, stylists, drivers, bodyguards, PAs and publicity people. They didn't have details of the next events, times, places, etc. Without any of this information many jobs would have to be canceled or postponed, arrangements would have to be remade. In a few hours they had to fly to Rotterdam for the MTV Awards. Mel B and Geri talked for hours about the logistics and the reasons for leaving Simon. Geri said "His motivations and intentions had been honorable, but slowly he had lost the plot. He no longer saw us as human beings, but as products. [...] He had used our individual weaknesses and turned us against each other to cement his own control. Once the whirlwind took over, we didn't have time to question this. Until now, none of us had stepped back to look at the big picture." On 5 November they went to the Netherlands, and the 5 of them decided that it was time, at 3 in the morning on 6 November they were talking with their lawyers putting into effect the legal process that would sever the link with Simon. Then they did rehearsals for their presentation, Geri had a bag with a Filofax that included all the contacts, the dairy dates, phone numebers, etc, she said that all day she had the bag with her and a mobile phone even at reherasals. Simon was notified at 9 in the morning through their lawyers, Simon didn't want the news to leak, because he thought it was just a tantrum and the group would realize later and come to their senses. They won for Best Group that night, and after the ceremony they went directly to the airport and fly back to the UK. Their security team were told to stand down immediately, they would accompany them to the UK and after that they will be on their own.
pp.304–306.
@Frcm1988: Hey, thanks so much for doing this. Is this the Filofax she allegedly stole from Simon's PA? Does she mention that incident? Bennv3771 (talk) 04:23, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
She doesn't mention anything about this, just like the master tapes at Trinity, but Victoria mentions that Geri took a mobile phone from one of the PAs. I will put it in the following section. Frcm1988 (talk) 07:36, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
  • On 7 November they went to Thompson's office, Paul Conroy, head of Virgin was also there. They explained the reasons for sacking Simon and their intention to carry on. Rumors started leaking, there were several journalists outside, then they released a press statement. That night Simon signed the contract and they offically became free from 19 Entertainment. The following day the news had broken and appeared all over the headlines.
pp.308–309.

Victoria's version

Victoria started to complaint a bit earlier than Geri, around August 1997:

  • Simon had convinced the girls to take a tax-year-out, meaning they wouldn't have to pay income tax on the money earned outside the UK, but to do this they had to be out of the country for most of the year, only allowed to spend 65 days of the year in the UK, in their case it would mean from 1 September 1997 to 31 August 1998. As they would be on tour anyway they thought it wouldn't make much difference. David didn't want her to do it. A week before they would leave, David proposed to Victoria. She wrote: "I didn't dare say anything to anydoby. I was still terrified of what Simon would say. Well, I knew what Simon would say, he would go mad! He had this thing he used to repeat time and time again—that a man would split the Spice Girls up. So why didn't I just tell him to go to hell? The truth is I was frightened of what he could do. He had such power he could make it even more difficult for me to see David. And it was going to be difficult anyway."
pp. 222–224.
  • On 30 August David received an award and when he received the trophy the engagement ring was clearly visible. After the ceremony they went backstage and Victoria's sister call her to say that the press was outside the house saying that they were engaged, and people were sending flowers. Victoria couldn't believe the story went that quickly, the front page of the Pink Paper, a sport newspaper already that day had the headline "Beckham to Marry". One of the lawyers of Simon called and told her that they already had a story to deny the rumors. But the story was quickly overshadowed the next day, when Princess Diana died in a car accident that morning.
pp. 224–226.
  • First they went to New York for the "Spice Up Your Life" video then the MTV Awards. 2 weeks later they were back for one day in the UK and then traveled to the south of France to start rehearsals for Istanbul. She said they were at a village called Biot, but never got the chance to go out to see it, and added that during the month they were there only once they go out to eat at a restaurant. At the house was Simon, their PA Camilla, a cook, 2 security guys and Alan Underwood, who Victoria describes as "Simon's ears when he wasn't around". Victoria was convinced that all the phones were bugged so she never dare say anything anti-Simon when she talk to her mother or David, and later found out that the other girls thought the same. Every day routine, fitness, singing classes and dance classes. She say it was hell. No one was allowed in the house at all. "It was only a month but it felt like a year." Victoria says that photographs of the group that appeared on their magazine show them happy and having fun, but she says it was not a happy time, no one was happy, but also no one said anything they just kept it for themselves. Simon then told her that he got an invitation for a Versace show in Milan, and told Victoria to go and invite a friend
pp. 229–231.
  • She then returned to "Spice Camp" and realized how it felt "no better than a prison". She said one day she started talking with Geri in a laundry room "Tell me, Geri, are you really happy with Simon?", after a brief pause, Geri looked outside to see if there was anyone there and told her "No".
pp. 237–238.
  • Victoria says that Simon had a strategy of divide and rule: "Simon would get us on our own and tell us things that showed people had been talking. One example—me and food. He made no secret of the fact that he knew exactly what I was eating and not eating. It might have been for my own good, but that's not the point. Some one was grassing me up. But who? Security? The cook? The PA? The only people we could trust were each other and I became convinced Simon was trying to destabilize us."
p. 239.
  • Little freedom, Simon had favourites, one of them at a particular time could do nothing wrong, but then the favourite could suddenly change and never knew the reason. He made sure they knew that anything like a free weekend could be cancelled "in the interests of the group". Victoria said that this time is "one of the most unhappy experiences of my life."
p. 240.
  • After Istanbul, they kept going, Spiceworld was about to be released and they had to do start the promotion, Singapore, Thailand, India, Hong Kong, Japan. Simon never left them out of his sight. The press started calling him Spice Boy. At the end of October they were back to the UK for TV and radio promotion. Geri told her that before anythig they should talk with their lawyers. Next was the trip to South Africa, Simon arranged for their mothers to fly to South Africa and then go to a safari. She said that perhaps he had sensed how close to the edge they were.
pp. 241–243.
  • Geri talked to lawyers and told her that if they wanted to do it, they could but it had to be all of them. They flew to Rotterdam and the night of the 5th they all sat together in one room and talked about everything, and they all agree to go ahead. Geri called their lawyer to arrange everything. (Victoria says that Simon was in NY, Geri said Italy not sure which one is the correct one) Victoria also mentions that Simon managed everything, from PAs to security, even their mobiles were given by Simon, so they also belonged to 19 Entertainment. She mentions that Geri's Filofax was their "back-up bible".
p. 244.
  • Victoria mentions that what Geri "took" from their PA Camilla was a mobile phone and hid it in a bag she was carrying, it had every number they would need stored in its memory. They were rehearsing on stage with Geri still holding the bag. Then they realized the bombshell had fallen when the saw their PAs crying, then all of them plus the security and then the stylists were instructed to leave. After midnight, they returned to the UK.
p. 245.
  • Their record deal was directly with Virgin, so they agreed to help them.
p. 246.
  • Victoria said they divided the areas of responsability, she was in charge of finances, Mel C touring, Mel B record company business, Emma charity work ang Geri sponsorships.
p. 249.

Mel B's version

To finish this sub-topic here is the last of the biographies.

  • She comments about Simon's managing: "To give him his due, I suppose you can only cope with five very different women for so long before you think, Right, I'm going to sort them out now. And that's what he started to do. He chose Divide and Rule as his management method. It was probably the only way that he felt that he could control us, but it was harsh and draining. [...] after a while it seemed that we couldn't do anything or go anywhere or even speak to our friends before checking with Simon first. He always asked us to check with him before we went out. 'Yeah, fucking yeah', was my reply. Then I'd go out without telling him."
pp. 263–264.
  • She says that Simon treated her a little differently to the other girls, he never said anything about her having a boyfriend and rarely complained about her going out, and she knows the others had more restrictions. She added that Simon was excellent at motivating and getting them fired up, but that when they were complaining for being homesick, missing their families or boyfriends, he didn't know how to handle it or what to say. She says that he was right in that they just had to get on with it, but a little bit of sympathy would have helped soften things, and also that Emma seemed to get it more often than the rest.
pp. 264–265.
  • On how Simon operated with them: "It was very, very clever, very precise and very planned. The emotional waves the band went through were very much down to him. [...] He was very good at sizing people up. He worked on us all like a brilliany psychoanalyst. You could never point the finger at him and say, 'He did that!' He was far to intelligent for that." She remembers that once during a trip the other girls ganged up on her by writing a letter listing everything that was wrong with her. She says that later Simon asked her if she was alright, as he didn't now anything. "He'd just planted the seeds and created the climate for something like that to happen, as we later realised when we finally talked over what had been going on to make us all so distant from one another."
pp. 265–267.
  • In September they flew to the south of France. Rehearsed for Istanbul at Biot, small village outside of Nice. "Spice Camp" or "Alcatraz", band, dance, singing lessons, aerobics, gym, food, bed; all day, every day.
p. 277.
  • Diary entry from 11 September 1997: "Simon arrives on Thursday. I know it is horrible to think this but it's a lot better when he's not around."
p. 278.
  • Diary entry from 22 September 1997: "This group is fucked up. It could be so good. We have all been through so much together that we should all, in theory be best mates. But we are not at all, Simon has made sure of that. I want to be able to be comfortable within this group and I'm not. It's all like one big nightmare test but he has no chance with me. I have sussed him, mate. I'm just playing the game and will carry on doing so until I can finally speak up and let rip."
p. 280.
  • 6 October 1997, they went to Spain for a press conference to unveil Spiceworld.
p. 285.
  • 12 and 13 October 1997 shows at Istanbul.
pp. 287–288.
  • 19 October 1997, Hong Kong and Tokyo. She had a chat with Geri during the flight about work and Simon. In Tokyo they went straight to Simon's room to tell him how tired they were, from here diary: "'And please Mr Manager, can we have at least one day off a week, not including travelling?' Well he said the usual, plus, 'Come on girls you are all jet lagged.' But if I don't stop and take proper time out soon I will be completely mentally and physically exhausted. Vicky and Mel C didn't say a thing so from Simon's point of view it probably doesn't seem that bad."
p. 293.
  • 23 October 1997, flight back to the UK from Tokyo. Diary entry: "Oh dear, Geri had a bit of a crisis in the car. She is making herself sick again. [...] Geri is crying out for help but it has to start from within. She needs to look at how to take care of herself, ask herself who she is and who she wants to be. But it's just so painful for her, isn't it? It's such a shame. Maybe one day she'll understand herself, I hope so."
pp. 295–296.
  • 31 October 1997. Flight to South Africa. Diary entry: "Had a chat with Vicky and Geri. I just hope we can stay sane through all of this. We read the letter Simon sent to us. He even sent a schedule so we know what we are doing, how kind!"
p. 302.
  • 3 November 1997. Internal flight in a small jet in South Africa. Diary entry: "Geri and Vicky are sat gossiping as usual. I'm next to Emma. Geri is going to start an explosion with Simon, I'm sure. And boy it will be hell, but in a way I can't wait."
p. 305.
  • 5 November 1997, arrived from South Africa. She and Geri went on a mission to find out some things. Geri went mo met the lawyers and she to visit a spiritualist. (LOL) "Everything I thought has been confirmed! We are gonna ditch Simon Fuller and break free. This group is ours, not his. Geri is waiting for ne to arriveat her house. This is where Geri and I kick ass, motherfuckers!"
p. 306.
  • Same day, 6:30 pm. Flight to the Netherlands, "Simon knows something is going on, but can he stop it? And can we convince Emma and Mel C that this is the right decision?".
p. 307.
  • 6 November 1997, 3:20 am. "Here is the story so far. I went down to Vicky's room and Geri was already in there talking to her about leaving Simon. Then we decided to call Mel C in to discuss it further. To my surprise she agrees with her hand on her heart that this is the right choice. Then Emma comes in and we talk for a few hours. I don't think she's in the right frame of mind to make any decision just yet. While we're talking we find out all the things he has said to us individually. For me this is final—he is out. [...] Oh the shit is going to hit the fan big time. There is no way he is getting out of this one alive, no way. This group deserves to enjoy life. The only thing we owe him is to tell him what we think of him. 54321 Simon, your time is up! We need to get rid of him if it's the last thing this group does."
pp. 307–308.
  • Rehearsals for MTV Europe Awards. As soon as Simon got the call from the lawyers, everyone from 19 Entertainment were instructed to leave, everyone was telling them that sacking Simon was the wrong thing to do. Lots of tears. Completely alone, with nothing but Geri's bag for back up. She had everything in the bag, her diary, Mel B's diary, an adress book, everyone's phones including Camilla's. Didn't let it out of sight, everything they needed to organise their lives was there.
pp. 309–310.

Geri leaving

@Frcm1988: What does Geri say about why she left the group in her book? Bennv3771 (talk) 09:32, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

@Frcm1988: Oh and when you have the time, could you help me look up what the page numbers are in the Sinclair book that cover Geri's departure? It's towards the end of Chapter 9, and I'm specifically interested in the sections starting from Geri's interview about breast cancer with ITN News, all the way to the group's initial response to Geri's press statement ("Friendship never ends!"). Thanks again. Bennv3771 (talk) 14:08, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

p. 175. Frcm1988 (talk) 09:35, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

If Only

Latest comment: 3 years ago14 comments2 people in discussion

Since you are fixing the early days at the moment, I thought you might find useful to have a few pages from Halliwell's first book about the early days. If you need pictures of the pages I can provide them also, let me know. I will try to do something similar for McGibbon, Mel B's and Victoria's autobiographies. Regards. Frcm1988 (talk) 03:30, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Chapter 8

  • Geri saw the The Stage ad, commented that she didn't go to the first audition because she got sunburn, and called to see if they were still looking, She thought that they were obviously amateurs, since they left her in despite the hundreds of auditions.
pp. 146–147.

Chapter 9

  • The actual day she met the Herberts, her "Im as old or young as you want me to be" quote, first impressions of Mel B and remember Victoria from Tank Girl, they divided the girls in 2 groups of six. (Victoria says in her book that they were divided in 3 groups of 4, which makes more sense looking at the number of girls) Geri wrote she was in the reject pile, they were given "Just a Step from Heaven" by Eternal to do a dance routine.
p. 150.
  • Geri had trouble keeping up with the rest, she just free-styled (LOL) The other group was much better, better choreography. Bob Herbert told Geri to join the other group. The group consisted of Mel B, Victoria, Michelle and a "Welsh girl who sang like an angel"(I think this is supposed to be Lianne Morgan, she never mentions her name), they were given a tape of "Signed, Sealed, Delivered I'm Yours" for practice.
p. 151.
  • A week later they met again at Nomis studio, the welsh girl (Lianne) wasn't there, her replacement was Mel C. Their harmonies sounded terrible, different interpretation of the song, more like pub-karaoke.
p. 152.
  • Bob planned to put them at a guest house in Surrey, they were told to resign from their jobs and go on the dole, anybody not committed to the project should leave, they were given "Take Me Away" to learn, no one liked the song, the lyrics were awful, Pepi Lemer started the singing lessons. She said the lessons were more like slow torture than training, Brown and Chisholm were the ones that came up with most of the choreographies, Victoria quickly picked up the routines, but Geri and Michelle struggled. They met with Chic Murphy.
p. 153–156.
  • Chic had a proposal, he has a vacant house in Maidenhead, they move to the house, Michelle didnt have the same hunger than the rest. Geri and Michelle tried to rewrite "We're Going to Make it Happen", the dance routine was complicated, Michelle didn't seem to care, Mel B talked to Michelle to get her act together, she started to change and practiced harder, then they had a 2 week break. Geri said that without consulting them, Chic and the Herberts decided that Michelle didnt fit and fire her.
p. 157–161.
  • They started looking for a replacement, Geri and the others were looking for someone at a pub and on the streets (LOL). Later Lemer found Emma, she didn't audition, a week-trial, pick her at the train station on "a rainy afternoon in late July", she was homesick but soon fit in well with the other girls.
pp. 162–164.
  • Mel C and Emma big fans of Take That, watch their videos and mimc their dance moves. They would do Madonna medleys, then Queen and Tina Turner.
p. 166.
  • Chic suggested some names for the group: Take Five, High Five, Plus Five, Five Alive. Bob and Chris suggested Touch. Geri was at a gym class with Mel C and suddendly tought of Spice, Mel B and Emma like it. Bob and Chris were absent for most of the summer and autumn. The Herberts occasionally invited people to listen to them, producers, etc.
p. 168.
@Frcm1988: Hi, does Geri mention getting the inspiration for the name Spice from a song they recorded early on with Tim Hawes called "Sugar and Spice"? Bennv3771 (talk) 17:41, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
No, she practically takes full credit for it, ha ha; but there is conflicting info in McGibbon's book. I will post the info in the McGibbon section. Frcm1988 (talk) 22:35, 8 March 2021 (UTC)
@Frcm1988: Does Geri give any indication for when this name change from Touch to Spice took place in her version of events? Bennv3771 (talk) 19:34, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
No, she just mentions this part before the showcase, Victoria also mentions this part before the showcase. I think that parts of Victoria's book took references from Geri's and parts of Mel B's book are probably based on Victoria's and Geri's books because of the similarities specially in events that concerned the group together. I think they just took some events of the group from the previous books and assumed the chain was chronologically correct. Frcm1988 (talk) 20:14, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
  • They wrote their first song together, "It's Just One of Those Days". Five months of rehearsing, push for a showcase, in early November, positive feedback from industry people, Halliwell met with Mark Fox, a music publisher
pp. 169–170.
@Frcm1988: This is all extremely helpful. Thanks! Bennv3771 (talk) 04:06, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Chapter 10

  • She and Mel B were the strongest personalities in the band. Heated disagreements, but started to bond. During their Christmas break the two booked a holiday to the Canary Islands. Mel B was the only one of the group that knew her struggles with an eating disorder.
p. 172.
  • By New Year, Geri stayed in Maidenhead while the rest of the group went to their homes. She had a crisis with her bulimia and entered the phychiatric unit at Watford General Hospital. She stayed there for about 10 days, only Mel B knew.
pp. 173–178.
  • During the trip to Spain, she and Mel B had been talking about their management problems. Mel B had asked about the contracts at first to the Herberts. But she said that they didn't say anything to the other girls until they knew they felt the same way. She feared that one of them might tell Bob or Chris, and they would throw her out the band. She mentions that before the showcase she had spoken to Victoria about another manager they both knew called Albert Samuals. One day the three were talking and Geri commented "Well, if it doesn't work out, we could always go and see Albert. Can't we, Tor?" to which Victoria replied: "Sure. It's a good idea." She had a similar interaction with Mel C at the gym, she had no faith in Bob and Chris. They were handed contracts in late February, but they said they were going to take them away and read them, Victoria said she would show it to her father. Sha said that the contract stated that 25% of everything will go to the Herberts, and basically they will have no said in the music, marketing or promotion. Geri said that they didnt suggest leaving right away, instead they stalled by asking certain details to be changed, but introduced them very slowly while continuing with rehearsals at Trinity.
pp. 179–181.
  • One night they were at the house toying with the lyrics of a song, when Victoria suddenly announced: "I think we should leave Bob and Chris.", Geri and Mel B quickly agreed. None of them mentioned the legal problems for the money and time invested by Heart, despite not having a signed contract, but Geri thought that the problems could be solved later.
p. 181.
  • This part is interesting because Geri completely ignores the fact about them "retreiving" the masters at Trinity and there is not a single mention about it on her book. She just mentions that on the first Sunday in May she received a call from Bob asking about the contracts, and told her that they wanted the contracts signed, she answered that she will tell the others and call back. She and Mel B were the only girls at the house, the other 3 had gone to their homes for the weekend. The following Tuesday they had the meeting with Kennedy already arranged. They decided to go and see Kennedy, because Chris could still cancel the session. They started packing everything, and left in Geri's car. She left a note on the table that said: "Thank you for all you have done. We can't agree to the terms of your contract." (I guess the whole thing at the studio happened on Friday, that Sunday the Herberts called Geri and on Tuesday they had the meeting with Kennedy, altough Geri mentions this happening in early May, the first sunday is the 7th of May).
pp. 181–182.
  • There is no pause in the book, so it looks like they left the house and directly went to search for Kennedy. Geri said that by the time they passed Coventry they still havent figure out how they will find Eliot. All she remembered was the Sheffield reference. They stopped at a service station outside the city and looked at a telephone directory, there were to many Kennedys so they started calling recording studios. She said that a sound engineer at the second studio they called said that Kennedy was scheduled to use the studio that Tuesday, and gave them Kennedy's adress not a phone number. He was staying in the country, and took them 2 hours to find the house, they arrived after midnight, and introduce themselves at the door explaining the situation and asked him if he will still work with them. He said: "Sure. Why not. Come inside and have coffee." He was apparently recording with another girl in that moment.
pp. 182–183.
  • They stay there fo the night, Mel C went the next day from Sidcup, and Emma and Victoria would arrive there on Tuesday, when Mel C arrived they started to write "Love Thing", first song they did without management. She then talks about Mark Fox, who worked at BMG Publishing, they met at the showcase. She and the two Melanies went to meet him at London and he started helping them get in contact with other executives, record companies and managers.
pp. 183–184.
  • A few weeks before they departed Heart, they had starred working with Stannard and Rowe at The Stone Room. Initially they spent a few days recording a half-written ballad called "Feed Your Love". She said that now they started working with them again, and they wrote "Wannabe" in 20 minutes, Geri said that it felt very spontaneous and natural, and that the song seemed to symbolize what they were about. (I think some sources made it seem like they wrote "Wannabe" during their time at Heart, while others like this one implies that they wrote it after they left the Herberts)
p. 184.
  • She mention something about the writing process:
"The genesis of any new song is normally quite spontaneous. One of us would come up with a top-line melody and the others would begin adding ideas. Some of my best thoughts cropped up while I was lying in the bath, or about to fall sleep at night. Then I'd sing the melody into a tape recorder, or down the phone to the studio.
Producers would take this idea and begin incorporating it into a song. If it seemed promising, we would all start adding lyrics and harmonies.
Through Mark Fox we were also introduced to the Absolute Boys—another production team, consisting of Paul Watson and Andy Watkins. People like this would come up with backing tracks and new ideas to bounce off us. Then we'd sit around and start chipping in with suggestions. Slowly, a song would emerge, with the lyrics changing constantly as we agreed on something better.
We each had our traits in the songwriting department. Mel B was very good at the quirky lines and coining phrases like "zigazig ha". I seemed to come up with the hook or the play on words that triggered a chorus. Mel C could fill up a song with harmonies, or take what I had done and add vocal flourishes. Emma had an ear for really sweet melodies and ballads, while Victoria would suggest a chant here or there."
pp. 184–185.
  • They started meeting with some managers.
pp. 185–186.
  • Absolute had passed a tape of "Something Kinda Funny" to Fuller, and he asked to see them. They met him at his Rampton's Dock office, Geri told him: "We have half the songs for the first album, we have the right image and the time is right." They wanted movies, merchandising, TV specials, and conquer America. She said Simon had a quiet cofident air, but no sign of cockiness. She said that she wrote on her diary that day (Through the book, Geri has this small dated sections that are apparently taken from her own diary) This is dated Tuesday 11 June, 1995: "Altought the journey has been so short so far—compared to the one ahead—we have shared many laughs and also tears. Pride has had to be swallowed. Characters have been finely tuned to fit the group. We are five captains all steering the ship and we have taken on board on fine navigator in Mr. Simon Fuller... We had many challenges ahead. Perhaps we are chasing a rainbow and will never reach the end. But together it feels so much better—I know I am not alone." (Some sources have the meeting with Fuller in May).
pp. 187–188. Frcm1988 (talk) 03:03, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Chapter 11

  • Buzz about the group was growing, record companies and music publishers were interested in them. Geri wanted to sign with Virgin. London Records tried very hard to secure them. Geri says at one point "since signing with Simon at the end of May". Geri and the 2 Melanies were living together in Cyprus Street in North London, Emma and Victoria lived at their homes. Each girl had a distinctive personality: Mel B was bold, aggressive, high-octane vitality, natural musical rhythm; Victoria had an aura of cool sophistication, moody, composed and great sense of humor; Emma sweet and pure, childlike enthusiasm and naivety; Mel C had a dancer's air, physical presence, appreciative, shy dreamer; and she describe herself as the "flame-haired live wire with a mad imagination and never ending supply of ideas". Spice was the perfect name, they were different flavours in the same recipe.
pp.189–191.
  • Signing with Virgin on 13 July 1995 at 6:00 pm.
p. 192.
  • Two weeks after the signing with Virgin they did their American trip. Geri says that the idea was to meet with TV and film executives to promote the idea of a 90's Hard Day's Night, and added that since they first met Simon they stressed that they wanted to make a film.
p. 194.
  • Simon had ties with William Morris, and through them they arranged meeting with fil and TV executives. Jeff Frasco oragnized some of the meetings at his house, while other meeting took place at the house of William Morris' head, Arnold Rifkin. They met with executives from Fox Studios, Dreamworks, Disney, NBC, CBS, Fox Tv, music publishers and tv producers.
pp. 197–198.
  • Geri says that during this trip Simon suggested to change the name to Spice Girls. "Walking in the parking lot behind Spagos, Simon asked me, 'Have you noticed how when you walk into a place, instead of saying, Here come Spice, people say, Here come the Spice girls'. Mmm, you're right. 'What do you think about calling yourselves the Spice Girls?'. It made a lot of sense. If people were going to lenghten the name anyway, why not make it official? She also mentions that there was a rapper with the same name, they discussed with the others and all agreed on the change.
pp. 198–199.
  • After 6 days in LA, they went to Hawaii, while Simon returned to the UK. She celebrated her birthday in Maui.
p. 202.
  • The group then returned to the UK to continue to write and record for the album. Geri says that they still needed 6 songs for the album (Im guessing they had "Love Thing" and "Say You'll Be There" from Kennedy, "Something Kinda Funny" which is documented that is the first song Simon heard from them, and perhaps "Wannabe" since that is what they used to sing while looking for management).
p. 203.
  • At this point Geri mentions the "2 Become 1" recording, but Im not sure if this is chronologically accurate, there are not dates or diary entries in this part. She mentions that she had a hard time during this recording, she felt under pressure and couldn't deliver the emotion during her lines. (I remember that there is a video from December 1996, where they appeared at Live and Kicking or The Noise or some other kid show answering questions from fans that called the show, and some kid asked about why they changed the lyrics of the song in the single release, and Mel B said something like "because Geri couldn't sing it". Geri laughed but you can tell she was annoyed by Mel B's comment)
p. 204.
  • By February 1996, it was obvious to them that "Wannabe" would be the first single. She says Ashley Newton couldn't stop tinkering with the song. Sent it to Dave Way to be remixed, she hated the R&B, juungle mixes, etc. Eventually she and Mel B dictated how the final mix should sound. She said that "exactly a year after our midnight flit from Midenhead" (March?) they were back at Fon Studios in Sheffield to remaster "Love Thing" with Kennedy.
p. 207.
  • She went to a jeweler's shop in Sheffield and bought 5 gold rings and then gave each a ring box at the studio as an anniversary ceremony. (I saw an interview with Kennedy where he remembers this particular event of Geri handing over the rings to the other girls)
p. 208. Frcm1988 (talk) 06:40, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Chapter 12

  • 19 February 1996 attended the BRIT Awards as guests.
p. 209.
  • She proposed Tony Blair who was sitting at their table to appear on their music video, he declined.
p. 211.
  • A lot of work behind the scenes for the launch of the group. Music press and radio stations.
p. 212.
  • About their image, Geri says: "We were very aware of not going too far. It was okay to be outrageous, but we had an image to promote that didn't include drugs, swearing or drunkenness. Saying that, Mel B and I seemed to break most of the rules and get away with it. It seemed to be an accepted part of our 'characters' to be a little more rebellious than the others." They decided to celebrate their individuality, wearing outfits that matched their own personalities. She also mentions that they tried to "play down the perception of us being a 'manufactured group'." The press seemed to look down at such bands. They also decided not to advertise the fact that some of them had boyfriends.
pp. 212–213.
  • Meeting with Suzie Aplin, assistant producer of TFI Friday in March. They sang "Wannabe" for her, she liked them but Chris Evans hated it, he told them "Why don't you just go back to Live and Kicking".
p. 213.
  • Simon announced thet he didn't think "Wannabe" should be their debut, neither did Virgin. They thought "Love Thing" would be a better choice. Geri was shocked, they tried to convince her, but she was adamant. After talking with the other girls, she told Simon that it was not negotiable.
p. 215.
  • On 19 April 1996, filmed the "Wannabe" music video at St. Pancras. The idea was to recreate the energy and dynamism that they showed when they used to crash into record companies. The place was transformed into an old mansion and populated with odd characters and stereotypes. Geri fell over many times during the shoot. It appeared to be one continuous take, but there are 2 cuts that were synchronized to make it seem like it was one take. Big Breakfast sent a crew to do a story on the shoot, first TV interview.
pp. 215–216.
@Frcm1988: Which page specifically is the section about the music video appearing to be one shot, but actually consisting of two takes? Thanks. Bennv3771 (talk) 04:57, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
p. 216. Frcm1988 (talk) 01:36, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Simon announced that Virgin wanted to reshoot the video. She was shocked and mentions that it costed £130,000 split in half between Virgin and the group's future earnings. She refused, and didn't care they didn't like it. They also refused to do a slicker version for the US.
p. 218.
  • First TV appearance in April on Surprise Surprise. For it, they filmed a special video of "Wannabe" in a car park in Manchester. The segment aired on early May. Also in May, they sent the video for trial on The Box, first big test for the song. In the first week, 70 requests to play it, more than any other song. Virgin and their public relations company, Brilliant, planned every aspect of the marketing and promotion, from the artwork and posters, to the TV and radio campaigns.
p. 219.
  • On 16 May they filmed a segment for the late-night music show Hotel Babylon and sang "Wannabe".
p. 220.
  • A week later they flew to Japan for a promotional tour. The single was being released in Japan a month in advance. Simon suggested this strategy, to release first in the Far East, they travelled with their PA Camilla without Simon. The schedule was full of interviews, photoshoots and record signings.
p. 222.
  • A month before the release in the UK, the song had been put in clubs and discos. And was played on the radio several weeks before the release. They also began touring UK regional radio stations, traveled in a minibus.
pp. 222–223.
  • Debuted at number 3, an interview with The Daily Star in a pub. The next day they flew again to Japan for more promotion. Top of the Pops wanted them to performed and arranged a satellite feed from Tokyo to London, and they were rushed to a hotel near the airport and then taken to a nearby temple. She said the introduction "from Japan" helped them with the international act perception. The performance aired on thursday and on sunday "Wannabe" reached number one. Celebrated in a Chinese restaurant.
pp. 224–226. Frcm1988 (talk) 19:39, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Chapter 13

  • "Wannabe" number one for 7 weeks.
p. 227.
  • After Japan, they did promotional trips to Germany and the Netherlands. Shoots for teen magazines, interviews with British newspapers, radio phone-in programs, children's TV programs. Performed at Capital Radio Roadshow on Clapham.
p. 228.
  • Peter Loraine interview, "Spice Rack" article. Travel back to the US, photoshoot for More magazine at Venice Beach.
p. 229.
  • Video for "Say You'll Be There" at the Mojave Desert, B-movie flavour, names for each girl, based on Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!.
pp. 231–232.
  • Presales of the single were the highest ever for Virgin. Tour of the Far East, Japan, Hong Kong, Thailand and Korea. "Wannabe" reached number one in 17 countries and sold more than 6 million copies. Simon said Pepsi wanted an advertisement campaign, while other deals were negotiated for Spice Girls official products.
p. 234.
  • "Say You'll Be There" debuted at number one.
p. 236.
  • The Sun and the Daily Mirror were competing with each other with "Spice" stories. Trip to France, series of interviews and TV shows. Simon called her, Geri's old modeling agency was asking for £40,000 for her nude pictures. She refused to pay. Then trip to Italy, in Rome they sang "Say You'll Be There" in a TV show. Then they went to Bologna.
pp. 237–240.
  • Trip to Sweden, interviews, chat shows. Then they flew to Norway, children's TV show, more TV interviews.
pp. 241–242. Frcm1988 (talk) 23:47, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Chapter 14

  • On 3 November 1996, they were in Munich, photoshoot and interview for Bravo.
p. 245.
  • British tabloids were publishing the nude pictures, ex-boyfriends were selling stories and old pictures of the girls, stories on their families.
pp- 246–249.
  • On 6 November 1996, filming the "2 Become 1" video, blue screen, backdrop of New York. Interview with NME and promotion for MTV. They filmed an advertising compettion to take kids to Lapland in Finland for Christmas. Oxford Street Lights.
pp. 249–250.
  • On 9 November 1996, trip to Paris, the next day they went to Rome for a TV show. Spice debuted at number one in the UK. Then they flew to New York, a cameraman was following them making the "Spice" documentary and a photographer from Top of the Pops. They made shoots in Times Square, Central Park, etc. Photoshoot for Interview magazine in Manhattan. Meeting with MTV. They then flew to LA for the final leg of the tour.
pp. 253–255.
  • Smash Hits award ceremony, performed "Say You'll Be There", 3 awards. The Spectator interview, article published on 13 December 1996.
pp. 255–258. Frcm1988 (talk) 23:47, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Chapter 15

  • "2 Become 1" third number one. Sold more than 200,000 copies in the first week.
p. 261.
  • On 10 December 1996, did a gig at a Virgin Megastore in France.
p. 262.
  • On 19 December 1996, GMTV appearance, then Capital Radio and Radio One.
p. 263.
  • Holidays during Christmas, she went to Antigua, the other girls were also in other Caribbean islands.
p. 264.
  • Promotional tour in North America. First Canada, they went to Montreal, frezing weather. She says it was a disaster, she and Mel B were so ill they had to miss an MTV special. "Wannabe" entered the Billboard Hot 100 at number eleven.
p. 266.
  • Continued to the US. A radio station organized a "party" on a bus while touring New York City.
p. 267.
  • 150 radios had "Wannabe" in heavy rotation. Eventually it topped the chart. Spice debuted at number six. Filmed video of "Who do you Think you are" for Comic Relief.
p. 268.
  • BRIT Awards, five days before the ceremony she came up with the Union Jack idea. She then describes the whole thing, a black dress, sew up on top of it, the stylist said it was National Front, peace symbol. 5 nominations, "Who do you Think you are" performance, 2 days rehearsing, 2 awards.
pp. 270–274. Frcm1988 (talk) 02:06, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

McGibbon

Latest comment: 3 years ago16 comments2 people in discussion

Some info about the same period from McGibbon's book. I have this book in Spanish so Im not really sure if the number of pages is the same or if perhaps in the translation process some parts ended up on different pages, but either way. Frcm1988 (talk) 06:46, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

This is the original book and the one that I got:

Chapter 1

  • Audition date on 4 March 1994, small ad on The Stage, more than 300 girls at Dance Works studio, Chris' idea, music scene dominated by boy bands (Take That, Boyzone)
pp. 9–11.
  • Chris wanted to create something new, different girls, personalities, easy for other girls to relate to them. A few weeks before Christmas 1993 he started to look for the girls by giving flyers with four key words that personified what he was looking for "Streetwise, outgoing, ambitious and dedicated". He wanted inexperienced girls not model types. He searched for the girls around London, Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool, visited dance and theather schools, approached girls on the street while shooping, in pubs, big dance studios like Pineapple, went to West End auditions. By the end of January he had hundreds of photographs and books, then decided to narrow the list to about 80 girls, and decided to call them for an audition, but then realized that it wont be enough to find the 5 girls and decided to do an open audition . The ad appeared on The Stage on 24 February 1994.
pp. 13–15.
  • They have the girls dance to "Stay" by Eternal, and gave scores like a jury vote. 4 jurors: Chris, Bob, a friend Sarah Davidson (dancer and choreographer) and Chris' girlfriend Shelley D'Silva (stylist for some pop groups). They gave points for dancing ability, appearence and personality. Second part of the audition during the afternoon, the girls with the best scores had to sing while they were recorded. Mel C stood out, she sang "Im so Excited", powerful voice, very confident. Brown was actually in another audition at the same place for a 6-month job at a cruise, a friend convience her to also try the audition, she sang "Greatest Love of All", they liked her personality and look. Victoria sang "Mein Herr" from Cabaret, they liked the reserved and sophisticated aspect of her personality.
pp. 16–17.

Chapter 3

  • The Herberts spend six weeks analyzing the tapes from the audition trying to decide what combinations of girls could work. The book said they chose 9 girls to call back, Mel B, Mel C, Victoria, Michelle, a girl from Cardiff (I guess this is Lianne) and 4 other girls (I think Melanie Laccohee and Suzanne Tinker are some of them). Final audition on 17 May 1994, Geri called a few days before to ask if they were still looking.
pp. 40–41.

Chapter 5

  • Audition day, 10 girls (with Geri) divided in 2 groups (this is one of the early things that had conflicting stories), dancing and singing to Eternal. In the book there is an obvious mistake, McGibbon said that in one group they had Mel B, Victoria, Michelle and Mel C, with Geri joining later (I believed is documented and Mel C herself said in interviews recently that she was sick and couldn't attend the second audition, Geri also mentions Mel C wasn't there).
p. 57.
@Frcm1988: So Geri and Victoria say 12 girls were at the second audition (Geri also says "about 12" in the Raw Spice footage from 1994), and McGibbon and Sinclair say 10. I don't see any reason for any of them to lie about this, so it's probably just someone misremembering. Since Geri and Victoria do remember the Mel C/Lianne Morgan situation, it seems they've got the best memory here. I'm inclined to change it to something more vague like "... were among the dozen or so women who advanced to a second round.." Bennv3771 (talk) 15:29, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
Yes Geri said 12 girls divided in two groups of six on p. 150 of If Only
Victoria has 12 girls but divided in three groups of four on p. 98 of Learning to Fly.
Mel B said "There were twelve of us. First we were called in for a quick conversation about our CVs and previous work experience. [...] Next we were divided into three groups and told to put together a routine ...". p. 141 of Catch a Fire. Frcm1988 (talk) 06:27, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
  • They were put on a guest house near Working in Surrey. Ian Lee worked at Trinity Studios and was helping the Herberts with the equipment and had seen the audition tapes. He remembers that the first time they met them, they were very shy, except Geri who was very confident and introduce herself , Hi Im Geri, who are you? The first song they worked with was "Take Me Away" by Erwin Keiles and John Thirkell, 2 songwriters that knew the Herberts. 5 days later they did a mini performance for Chic and people from the studio. First week of June they moved to the Maidenhead house, strict schedule, they were given other songs by Keiles and Thirkell and were asked to develop their own choreographies. Chris suggested the name Touch, nobody loved it but nobody hated it. Ian Lee was in the first rehearseals, he said that they didn't talk very much, they were getting to know each other, very poor dancing at the beginning, clearly Brown was the best and had the best ideas. Geri was the worst. But it was evident that they needed singing lessons. Keiles suggested Lemer. She tought that they had potential but that it will take some time, they agreed on 2 lessons per week for 3 months, each session was 4 to 5 hours.
pp. 58–61.
  • Daily routine of dancing and singing exercises. Moments of tension between Mel B and Geri, the 2 dominant personalities of the group, Mel B was the best dancer but Geri also had some ideas. Michelle didn't seem to be adapting to the group, Ian Lee said they were acting like a gang but that Michelle didn't seem to be or wanted to be part of it. This was the beginning of August. (conflict with Geri's book, she mentions they met Emma in July) She was also struggling because her mother had cancer. McGibbon said that Michelle decided to leave to take care of her mother and maybe pursue an academic career. (Another conflicting story). Victoria was part of another group called Persuassion and was secreatly working with both. Persuassion had been working for a big presentation on 28 August, but Victoria called 12 days before to say she was leaving. They went for a brief vacation while the Herberts searched for a replacement for Michelle. Pepi suggested a girl she gave lessons, Abigail Kis, she had a good audition and they like her, she went to the audition with her boyfriend, Chic told her she needed to get rid of him to enter the group, she called later to said she pass the offer.
pp. 63–67.

Chapter 6

  • Lemer then remembered about Emma, she talked to Emma's mother Pauline and later that day Emma called back saying that she was very interested in the project.
p. 68.
  • Lemer send her the "Take Me Away" tape and an audition would take place at Erwin Keiles house, in the audition was Bob, Chris, Chic, Keiles, Lemer and Pauline (Geri said in her book that Emma didn't audition, perhaps she meant that she didn't audition to the rest of the girls and only to the managment and Lemer). They liked her, but Lemer commented in the book that Chic was not that impressed, he liked her voice but didnt like her appeareance, he thought she was fat!!! Lemer convience him that it will dissapear as she gets older. Hard for her at the beginning, she cried a lot, missed home, but she was a good complement to the girls and fitted great in between Mel B and Geri.
pp. 76–77.

Chapter 7

  • The schedule was strict, and the management was very controlling, and they were monitored on their daily progress. they rehearsed 5 songs from the Keiles/Thirkell catalogue, including "We're Going to Make it Happen".
pp. 78–79.
  • The group did 2 small performances at Trinity Studios, one for engineers of the city council, and another for an open door event to show the Trinity Studios instalations. They wanted no sing other songs but Lemer insisted that hey perfected the ones they had. They did a small performance of "We're Going to Make it Happen" for Erwin and his bussiness partner, but they changed the lyrics and added a rap section, he was very upset, he mentions that he told them that it was ok if they wanted to change the lyrics but they had to do it properly. They made the changes together, and they were fascinated with the process, Geri appeared to be in charge of the group, they spent six hours in the recording process, they loved the final version. To record the audition process and development of the group, they hired camera equipment from Rave Productions so that a documentary of the group's road to fame be filmed, they recorded their rehearseals, interviewed them about their future plans and ambitions (I believe this was eventually released as Raw Spice).
pp. 86–90.

Chapter 8

  • The girls started to feel frustated with how everything was going, fighting between Geri and Mel B. Apparently by November the situation was at its worst point. This part mentions that they started rehearsals as a group in June and with Emma since September.
p. 91.
  • Lemer assumed a maternal role for the girls, took them to eat, sometimes they went to her house, she gifted them some of her clothes, talked about family, boyfriends, fashion, etc. Lemer mentioned that they were not happy, they believed that it wasn't moving fast enough. She told them to take control of the situation, to speak up if something was bothering them and ask the managment for solutions. Geri and Mel B were the leading voices of the group and had some disputes with the Herberts.
p. 92–93.
  • Showcase at Nomis studio on 7 December 1994. Few days before a final wardrobe rehearsal. Shelley (Chris' girlfriend) helped them choose the outfits. The day of the showcase, vocal warmups with Lemer, Lemer's daughter Dani helped them with the makeup.
p. 93–94.
  • Succesfull showcase. Keiles commented that a lot of people approach them (Keiles and Thirkell) since they were the songwriters of the tracks the group performed. The weeks that followed they were more confident and worked autonomously.
p. 95–96.
  • Few days before Christmas last lesson with Lemer.
p. 96.
  • After New Year, they started to met with songwriting teams. They met with Stannard and Rowe during this period.
p. 97.
  • Also during this time they worked with Tim Hawes, he already knew them and had recorded with them. He wrote the chorus of a song "Sugar and Spice" when he started working with them. Together they worked on it for a couple of days. He mentions that at this time they wanted to change the Touch name, the had some ideas but nothing seem to stuck. In the book he says that he thought that Spice could be a good name for them and suggested it to the girls, they tought that it could work and they were maturing the idea, and a few days later, they announce to Chris that their new name will be Spice. (completely different from Geri's story).
p. 97–98.
@Frcm1988: The "Sugar and Spice" song definitely exists and even the timeline on the official website acknowledges it, so I'm inclined to leave in the statement in the Spice Girls article that it was the inspiration for their final band name. But as for the claim that Geri came up with the name, I'm inclined to change that to something more vague like: "It was also around the time of the showcase that the band's name was changed to 'Spice'." -- which I think fits both Geri and Tim Hawes' claims. Bennv3771 (talk) 16:06, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
Yeah I think that will work. It's weird how they kinda had this thing with "we did it all ouselves" or "everything was already there before our managers". They had this obsession with been perceived as an organic group and NOT manufactured. But who cares? and it really didn't work with the public or media perception's at the end. Frcm1988 (talk) 17:35, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Hawes mentions that they were good with melodies. Geri was without a doubt who made the greatest contributions in terms of lyrics. He said that of the songs they did, she probably did 60 to 70% of the lyrics. Not the best with melodies, but good with lyrics and pop hooks. Mel B was also good with lyrics, Mel C was by far the best singer and really good with melodies. He liked her voice so much that made her sing lead in other song they made, "Is this Love", while the others did harmonies. They had problems with a third song and never finished it, they were upset that the Herberts insisted that they should finish and record it.
p. 98.
@Frcm1988: Hey, just to clarify is it Hawes or McGibbon who said Geri contributed the most/60-70%? Thanks Bennv3771 (talk) 07:40, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
Hawes. Frcm1988 (talk) 16:27, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Tensions because of the lack of contracts. At the beginning they wanted a contract but Chic would not offer them one until he was sure the group was ready. Finally when they consider that they were ready, the girls were not interested in signing. Ian Lee comments that the girls talked to him and Tim Hawes that they didn't agree with what the Herberts were offering them, it was a 5 years contract, which they tought was too long. Hawes think that if Geri or Mel B were not in the group they probably would never broke away from the Herberts.
p. 99.
  • Things got worse the last days of February and first days of March. The dispute over the recording of the third Hawes song was still going. The book mentions that on 3 Mach 1995 the girls formally took control of the group. Chris was pressuring them to finish and record the third song and the girls didn't wanted it to do it. Tim Hawes and Ian Lee were at Trinity Studios that last day. Hawes says that he guess that for the last 2 weeks they were probably planning how they were going to leave. They arrived to the studio and during launch, Geri persuaded Hawes to give her the tapes, she told him that they needed them for rehearsals. He was told to not give them any tapes, but Geri's ability to seduce was too strong. 15 minutes later, he comments that they pretended that they were fighting and they couldn work with each other anymore, he mentions that it was obviously staged and felt overdramatic. They left the building and was the last time they saw them. That night they left the house. The only communication they had was months later when the Herberts recieved a letter from a lawyer were they wished for the working relationship to formally end. End of the dream for Chris.
pp. 100–102.

Sorry to bother you Bennv, but I have to ask since it feels like Im taking control of your talk page, is it ok that I continue to add more info here? or perhaps you prefer that I add it to a sandbox? or maybe wait for you to ask about a particular source before adding the info? Let me know what works best for you. Regards. Frcm1988 (talk) 07:18, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

@Frcm1988: I'm perfectly fine with you collating all the information here on my talk page. No need to wait for me to ask for a particular source, because I don't have access to some of these sources so I wouldn't know what to ask you for with regards to them anyway. Bennv3771 (talk) 07:22, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
@Frcm1988: Hi, does McGibbon cover when they signed with Fuller and Virgin etc? Bennv3771 (talk) 16:39, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
Yes in the next chapter. Frcm1988 (talk) 17:01, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Chapter 9

  • Meeting with Kennedy, wrote "Love Thing" and "Say You'll Be There". Working with Stannard and Rowe, writing "Wannabe". Geri became very controling with the rest of the girls. There is a mention of Victoria missing the recording of "Wannabe" because she was away for the weekend with her boyfriend Mark. The book said that Geri called insistently and that Victoria's mother finally answered and told her that they were on pop group not a sect. (LOL) (This is a bit different from what Victoria wrote on her autobiography)
pp. 103–104.
  • They reunited with several executives, sung a capella for them. It says that Emma even introduced them with her old manager. They met Fuller, background on him.
p. 104.
  • In September 1995 signed with Virgin, soon after they made a deal with the Herberts for the time and money invested on the group.
p. 105.
@Frcm1988: Ugh, do you have any suggestions on how to resolve this with Sinclair saying they signed with Virgin in July? Sinclair seems really sure about the exact date and even gives specifics about that day, with the sex doll prank and whatnot. I suppose we could always just put something vague in the article, like "they signed with Virgin in the summer of 1995." Bennv3771 (talk) 09:27, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
Both Geri and Victoria gave an exact date on their books. Geri's even have the time! 6:00 pm on 13 July 1995. (p. 192) Victoria has the same date. (p. 150) Mel B only mentions the event but not a date. (p. 192). I believe that if you have multiple sources agreeing on a date, including two from the people directly involved in the event, we should consider them accurate. Perhaps you can add a note next to the reference saying that other sources claim a different date if you feel is important.
I just saw their official book Real Life: Real Spice and the timeline for the signing with Virgin is September 1995, altough we should probably blacklist that book in everything involving dates. In the book they claimed that they left Heart on October 1993 and were recording demos, etc searching for a manager for a year before signing with Fuller on March 1995. Frcm1988 (talk) 09:55, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
@Frcm1988: I'm fine with leaving it as July 1995 without a footnote. Any source from 1996-1998, including McGibbon, is probably a bit unreliable for the dates tbh, since a lot of their information was probably obtained from the group/their management/their record label, all of whom were telling an inaccurate version of events at the time. Bennv3771 (talk) 10:02, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Name change from Spice to Spice Girls.
pp. 105–106.
  • Started the marketing plan for the group's launch. BRIT awards 1996 as guests. "Wannabe" music video shoot. Aired on The Box, instant success, 70 times a week.
p. 107.
  • Interviews for editors of teen magazines, Smash Hits and Top of the Pops. Peter Loraine, nicknames.
pp.108–109.
  • "Wannabe debuted at number 3 on the UK Singles Chart, Geri mentioned that they hoped to be bigger than Eternal in the following year.
p. 109.
  • "Wannabe reached number one next week.
p. 110.
  • The song spread across Europe.
p. 111.
  • In July they went to Japan, ambushed the male presenters in a program from the channel Space Shower, video banned in some Asian countries because of Mel B's nipples.
p. 112.
  • "Wannabe" number one for seven weeks, a 1 million copies sold. Travel to the US in September to film "Say You'll Be There". Debuted at number-one in October. Geri's nude photos were published.
pp. 113–114.
  • Spice released in October in Japan (it was actually in September). In November, Virgin did a party for the album's launch in the UK, "Wannabe" sold 3 million copies worldwide and number-one in 22 countries. Number-one in the UK.
pp. 115–116.
  • Smash Hits Poll Winners Party, two awards. Backstage interview with The Spectator about the then-upcoming elections. Infamous Margaret Thatcher comment from Geri.
pp. 117–118.
  • "2 Become 1" delayed because of the tribute to the children of the Dunblane massacre. Christmas number-one. The album sold 1.8 million copies by the end of the year.
p. 121. Frcm1988 (talk) 08:45, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Chapter 10

  • Small vacation in January 1997, Geri went to Antigua, Emma to Barbados, Mel B to Nevis, and Victoria to Grenada. The tabloids started printing the ex-boyfriend stories, they took pictures of Emma and her boyfriend on vacation and mocked her body, etc.
pp. 122–123.
  • End of January, promotional tour to Canada and the US. "Wannabe" debuted at number eleven on the Billboard Hot 100, climbed to six next week, the buzz started, people were waiting for them at the hotel in NYC, paparazzi started following them. The only negative of the tour was a live presentation they did in Miami, where they did a mimed performance to a dissapointed audience. They limited their appearances after that to just TV and radio presentations.
pp. 123–124.
  • Behind the scenes, the deal with Pepsi was finalized. Before the deal was publicly revealed they traveled to LA to shoot the commercials. They returned to the UK and "Wannabe" went to number-one in the US soon after. First British group to reach number-one in the US with a debut single. (Not sure if this is true) "Wannabe" number one in 31 countries. Spice number six on the Hot 200.
pp. 124–125.
  • News of the number one reached the group while they were filming the "Who Do You Think You Are" video with the Sugar Lumps. 5 nominations for the BRIT Awards.
p. 125.
  • Playback performance of "Who Do You Think You Are", Geri's Union Jack dress, focus of the press for weeks. They took 2 awards.
pp. 126–127.
  • 3 March 1997, "Mama"/"Who Do You Think You Are" release, Comic Relief. Debuted next week at number one, just in time for Mother's Day. First group to have their first four singles reached number one in the UK. Number ones simultaneously on both sides of the Atlantic, the last time was Tiffany in 1988. Spice sales were at 6 million worldwide, and the singles reached 7 million in sales. "Wannabe" four weeks at number one in the US, and had sold four million worldwide.
p. 128.
  • Deal with Mercedes Benz, performance for the presentation of the new Formula One McLaren. Also appeared on the National Lottery and at the end of March launched Channel 5.
p. 129.
  • More tabloid stories.
pp. 130–132.
  • Promotional tour to the Far East, went to Bali in Indonesia, controversy for doing the haka dance from the New Zealand rugby team, maori leaders were horrified.
pp. 132–133.
  • Traveled to the US, performed live for the first time at Saturday Night Live.
p. 135.
  • Revealed the sponsorship with Pepsi, "Step to Me" only available to Pepsi consumers, and they would sponsor their first concert in Istanbul in October 1997. Performance at the Prince's Trust in Manchester. The incident with Prince Charles.
p. 136.
  • Traveled to Cannes to announce their upcoming film.
pp. 137–138.
  • Spice reached number one in the US. "Say You'll Be There" debuted at number five on the Hot 100, appeareances at the Late Show with David Letterman.
p. 139.
  • 2 awards at the Ivor Novello.
p. 140.
  • In less than a year, 14 million copies of the singles and 10 million copies of Spice. Trademarks for around a 100 products, announced a world tour for February 1998.
p. 141.

This is the end of the McGibbon book, one thing that I think is important to mention is that in the book he thanks many people for allowing him to interview them and others for giving him the information needed for the book. He specially thanked Pepi Lemer, Erwin Keiles, Tim Hawes and Shelley D'Silva. And also Ian Lee and the personnel at Trinity Studios for their valuable contributions and details during the group's formation months. So apparently many of what he included in the book is first hand information from the actual people involved with the group during the early days. Frcm1988 (talk) 20:11, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Lianne Morgan/Mel C

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion
@Frcm1988: Do any of your sources cover why Mel C was not at the second audition/recall. I believe it was because she had tonsillitis, but this isn't covered in Sinclair's book. Also, anything on Lianne Morgan being kicked out for looking too old? Thanks. Bennv3771 (talk) 08:11, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Yes, Victoria and Mel B have some info on this:
Victoria mentions that she recognized Geri in the audition, but she wasn't in her group: "There was this mad mixed-race girl called Melanie Brown.[...] She had a very strong North Country accent and was very outgoing and confident. In fact she was a bit frightening, if I'm really honest. Then there was this Welsh girl, who looked older than the rest of us. She was very slim, short dark hair, with a fantastic voice. Finally there was Michelle Stephenson, tall with mousy-coloured corkscrew hair but again really pretty".
p. 98.
"So we're standing around the piano and first we sing it individually. Mel B was very confident, but then she was already quite a professional; she'd been in Coronation Street and Emmerdale Farm. Melanie C, who had been at the original audition but missed the recall because she'd had something the matter with her tonsils, was a good natural singer, generally a lot more controlled and sounded a lot more trained than tthe rest of us."
p. 103.
"Victoria, Geri, Michelle and me were given tapes of Steve Wonder's "Signed, Sealed, Delivered I'm Yours" to take home and learn. [...] My mum keep telling me to slow it down, but I wanted to sing it faster and funkier than the Stevie Wonder version. I couldn't help adding a bit of my own style, as usual. [...] I think the others must have had the same idea about coming up with a distinctive version, because it sounded terrible when we were given our harmonies. [...] This was the first time I met Melanie Chisholm, who had missed the second audition because of tonsillitis. Melanie had a really good voice and was one of those perfect dancers."
pp. 143–144.

No one remembers Lianne's name though, they just called her the Welsh girl. I see in ProQuest that there are some news articles about her, but most of them are from The Mirror, The Sun or News of the World which should be avoided since all of them are tabloids. I see that there is a Melody Maker article called "Lianne Morgan: The sixth Spice Girl", but I can't see the content. (In the articles she claimes that she was 2 months with the group, LOL, I think that was the time the Herberts took to called them back). Frcm1988 (talk) 09:38, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Catch a Fire

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

@Frcm1988: Hey, I remember reading in one of Mel B's books about the writing/recording process for Forever. Something about the three of them (without Mel C) in a studio in Miami, listening to the backing tracks Rodney Jerkins/Darkchild had given them for them to write their lyrics/melody over. (And I believe Mel B was wondering if these backing tracks were the ones other artists had rejected ha) Is this from Catch a Fire? If so, could you share which page numbers, and maybe more details on what exactly Mel B said? I'm specifically interested in the songwriting process for that album. Thanks. Bennv3771 (talk) 08:44, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

  • In March I went back to LA to record three more songs for my album with Rodney. The very last song we wrote together... [...] p. 444.
  • A month later I was back in America, this time in Miami with Vicky and Emma to write and record three final tracks for the third Spice album with Rodney and the gang. We stayed on Fisher Island [...] Melanie recorded her bits a few days later. On our first day, while we were laying down a track, Rodney wandered off to his own little suite. 'What do you think you're doing?' we shouted at him... p. 445.
  • "when we finally found him. 'Get in here now!' He was putting down tracks for other people—apparently artist like Britney Spears were demanding his attention. So we took the piss out of Rodney all the time after that. As we listened to the beats he was putting down we'd say, 'That's shit. Definitely give that one to Britney!' When no one was listening we'd wonder aloud, 'Did we get the backing track that nobody else wanted?". p. 446. Frcm1988 (talk) 06:52, 14 March 2021 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Boys World (April 10)

Latest comment: 3 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion
 
Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by AngusWOOF were:
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 The comment the reviewer left was:
I don't see any charting for this. Just a handful of random articles. Needs more coverage.
Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit when they have been resolved.
AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 23:23, 10 April 2021 (UTC)
 
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