AnakPejuangIndonesia
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editHello, AnakPejuangIndonesia, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions.
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{Help me}} before the question. Again, welcome! JarrahTree 09:49, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
edit summaries
editare not always the best place for your arguments about what content is relevant or not - try to go to talk pages - they are far easily traceable and more WP:AGF with interaction with other editors in the community - thanks JarrahTree 04:56, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
- Honorifics for various members of the aristrocracy or whatever you might wish to choose to call it - is best standardised and conversed about at - https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Indonesia - thanks JarrahTree 05:01, 21 February 2018 (UTC)
Indonesian project talk page
editPlease note two main things - when adding material to a talk page - to be in sequence - new items are at the bottom of the page, not top. When leaving messages on talk pages, editors are always encouraged to WP:SIGN.
thank you very much
editIt is such a relief to have someone fixing up the javanese palace issues of naming and terminology and things - a very very strong matur nuwun, with feeling - we have had so few editors in the area actually contributing good positive changes to the material. Thank you JarrahTree 11:38, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
@JarrahTree: Haha sama-sama! And thanks for mentoring me.
All the colonial Dutch sources invariably use "Prins" when referring to the rulers of Mangkunegaran, Paku Alaman and indeed Surabaya (which I'll soon try and modify as well). If they had been considered of ducal rank, the Dutch could have easily used 'Hertog' instead of 'Prins'. AnakPejuangIndonesia (talk) 11:52, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
Dengan hormat to have a sk descendant penting sekali - during my fieldwork I used to go to sk on special days in my searching semua perpustakaan for material on my research site - I have fond memories of even a very very brief interaction with PBXII which was more crazy than productive - but my most serious concern is the lack of content in the hb, pb, and prince articles - any chance of being able to help with have range sources (londo, ingerris, id )? JarrahTree 12:00, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
@JarrahTree: What a privilege to have met Sinuhun! Truly a prince in the old mould. I'll try and help with adding more sources and references. AnakPejuangIndonesia (talk) 12:17, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
- No rush no stress, just like an old becak driver watching in one body position for 8 hours w out moving :) - I saw them in yk lots of times - I have used miksic for the main WP:V and WP:N item in the sk items, the mn, pb and yk items I do have a range of very average 3rd party older us and uk based academics side swipes at royalty of the past - but it would be interesting to give some depth to the articles - stubs since created (the early yk hb's weird dates are a bit disconcerting) - what would be great would be to get the stubs to have the real birth and death dates in the western calendar, as opposed to simply dates known as a ruler - ideally beyond my range - would be the dates in the jv and islamic calenders as well - but the geneaology offices in sk and yk had limited lists available when i was living in country. JarrahTree 12:25, 23 February 2018 (UTC)
yk kraton guards ...
editSheesh - the javanese script and all - its a bit much without some sort of reference as to where all the information comes from JarrahTree 13:02, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
JarrahTree The Javanese script is already in the original article. I just moved it to the top of the page. Should I get rid of it? My laptop can't actually read it anyway. Even http://www.kratonjogja.id/ doesn't use any Javanese script. (sign!)
Leave it for the moment - I would say the move and reference or sources to where the names of the groups of guards come from, if available JarrahTree 13:20, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
DYK nomination of Djajadiningrat family
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Hello! Your submission of Djajadiningrat family at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 22:34, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
DYK for Djajadiningrat family
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On 15 August 2018, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Djajadiningrat family, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that members of the Djajadiningrat family fought on both sides of the Indonesian Revolution? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Djajadiningrat family. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Djajadiningrat family), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
Discussion about the royal family of Yogyakarta
editGood day mas/mbak, sorry to bother you. You see, I've been reading articles about the Javanese monarchy and I noticed that the ruling head of Yogyakarta (Sri Sultan) and his consort has been styled as Highness instead of Majesty, and their immediate family is left without proper styling. I've read your note on the template talk, and I think the royal family of Yogyakarta still deserve to be styled as Majesties for the head and Royal Highness for the other member. The reason is, Sultanate of Yogyakarta was not a princely state, but a Kingdom (everyone calls Sri Sultan Raja in Indonesian, not Pangeran), and eventhough the form of Sultanate is gone, the royal family is, for all intents and purposes, still the ruling family of Yogyakarta Special Region, as the position of Governor and Vice Governor (per declaration of Special Authority over Yogyakarta given by the Indonesian Government in 1950), with all its duties and rights, will be occupied by the reigning king of Yogyakarta and prince of Pakualaman, so technically they are and will always be the sovereign of this special region. As Indonesian that lives in Yogyakarta, it saddens me that Ngarso Dalem is styled with the style of lower rank royals than what properly suits a reigning king. The monarchy was never deposed nor abolished by the Government. And with so I hope to be able to convinced you and other member, and maybe allowed to style their dignity and honour properly. If my opinion is wrong, I'm open for any correction and discussion. best regards --Saassoee (talk) 08:13, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
Saassoee Selamat malam. Good evening. First of all, I should like to emphasise that I have a great deal of respect for Ngarso Dalem. However, I still think that the Sultan of Yogyakarta's proper style is Highness. I shall first respond to some of the points you raised, then put forward additional arguments in support of my position.
- You said that the Sultanate of Yogyakarta is not a princely state. But it was, in fact, a princely state: see Vorstenlanden.
- Furthermore, you seem to think that a "prince" is always below a "king". You should realise that 'prince' has a few meanings in English and other European languages:
- It can refer to junior members of a king's family, in which case a prince is indeed inferior to a king (i.e. Pangeran)
- But it is also a general term for any ruler or monarch (a prince can actually mean a Raja, Ratu, Maharajah, Prabu, Sunan, Sultan or Adipati or, indeed, many other titles). Hence, the traditional translation of 'Ratu Adil' is the 'Just Prince', not the 'Just King'. Another example suffices: at the funeral of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, her titles and honours were read out: "the late Most High, Most Mighty and Most Excellent Princess Elizabeth...." 'Princess' in this case does not mean 'Putri', that is daughter of a king: it means the consort of a monarch.
- The Sultan is not a reigning monarch of an independent monarchy. He is the reigning monarch of a special autonomous province within Indonesia. In Malaysia, the monarchs of the Malaysian states are styled 'Royal Highness', not Majesty. Most of these state monarchs are styled Sultans as well; except for the Raja of Perlis and the Yamtuan Besar of Negri Sembilan. Only the Yang Dipertuan Agong of the whole of Malaysia is given the prefix 'Majesty' and is customarily styled 'King of Malaysia' in English. As Yogyakarta is not an independent country, but part of the Republic of Indonesia, the Sultan should not be accorded the prefix 'Majesty' as that style should only be used by monarchs of independent monarchies. Calling the Sultan of Yogyakarta 'the King of Yogyakarta' would not only be highly anomalous, but most inappropriate indeed.
- Traditionally, the Sunan, the Sultan and the Princes Mangkunegara and Paku Alam are all styled 'Highness' in English. This style is used by most authors writing in English.
- Again, I should emphasise that international protocol now does not rank a King with the prefix of 'Majesty' above, say, a Grand Duke witht he prefix of 'Royal Highness' or a Prince with the prefix of 'Serene Highness'. Seniority is determined now by a monarch's date of accession, not title.
- This is - as you put it - about giving the Sultan and his family their proper 'dignity and honour'. I agree: Sultan Hamengkubuwono IX chose to join the Indonesian Republic, and accepted the fact that accession to Indonesia means that the Sultans of Yogyakarta would not be monarchs of an independent monarchy.
- I have reverted most of your edits on Majesty and Royal Highness. In addition, I have provided official Indonesian and Australian government publications that refer to the Sultan of Yogyakarta as Highness instead of Majesty.