Talk:Yusuf Abu Durra

Comment

This looks like the start of a great article and thank you for creating it. Your references need to be expanded because I can't tell if you are referring to a book, magazine, or any other kind of media. Best Regards,

  Bfpage |leave a message  22:28, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

@Bfpage Thank you. I just added a Bibliography section which I will continue to add to as I work on the article. --Al Ameer (talk) 23:19, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

A fine article. Good job. —  Cliftonian (talk)  22:36, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Picture and Year of Death

Hi Al Ameer son, I have found at least two major discrepencies between this article in English and the one in Hebrew. The first one is the picture in the Hebrew article, taken from The Zionist Archive. The other is the year of his execution: Benny Morris' book "The Road to Jerusalem" (translated to Hebrew) says it took place in 1940 (not 1939). Can you help me settle these discrepencies? Do you recognize the man in the picture shown in the Hebrew wiki? Liadmalone (talk) 23:44, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Hey @Liadmalone: Regarding the year of execution, Jayyusi says 1939, Morris says 1940. I think Morris is generally more reliable with history though (Jayyusi is primarily a poet). Also, I've found two other sources (Ori Stendel and Hasan Afif El-Hasan) that confirm 1940 as the year. I will make the change accordingly. As for the pictures, both pictures in this article come from the archives of Mohamed Ali Eltaher. Eltaher was a reputed journalist in the Arab world at the time and I would trust that these images are indeed of Abu Durra as the archives claim. I tried to view the source for the Hebrew version but could not access it. Not sure what to do, but my feeling is that the Hebrew-version-image is not accurate. I'll try to find more images of Abu Durra from other sources, but my time is strained these days. --Al Ameer (talk) 16:25, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

Al Ameer son, Thank you very much. I would replace the picture in the Hebrew article, but now I have a bit of a problem: What do I do with the other picture? Apparently it's also of an historical value, and I'd hate to discard it to a dark space that is uncategorized files. Can you find out who this man was? I presume he was important, because he posed for the picture with such pathos, as if he was about to take on the british empire by himself... Liadmalone (talk) 17:12, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

@Liadmalone: Understood, I'll compare it with images in the Eltaher archive to see if there's a match. It should be noted, however, that there were dozens and dozens of rebel leaders during the 1936 revolt so this might be a difficult task. --Al Ameer (talk) 17:33, 4 August 2016 (UTC)

@Al Ameer son: (How are you?) I believe I'm on to something. I'm currently reading a book called "Arviyey Eretz-Israel" ("The Arabs of Palestine") by Ya'akov Shim'oni (published in 1947!) where a photo presented there is showing the commanders of the Arab Revolt in 1936. According to the text under it, standing second on the right is Fakhri Abd al-Hadi, "commander of the Palestinian squad" (with Kaukji on his right), who has a striking resemblence to the person in the photo currently shown in the Hebrew article. Could you find out whether it is actually Abd al-Hadi? Liadmalone (talk) 20:36, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

@Liadmalone: Could you scan the photo and upload it if its free? So far, I haven't been able to find a picture of Abd al-Hadi on either google images or Eltaher's archives. Abd al-Hadi was one of the more well-known rebel leaders who defected to the British side and led a local counter-insurgency. I'll keep looking for photos of him. @Zero0000: Would you know where a picture of him could be found? --Al Ameer (talk) 21:04, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I uploaded the picture:

Arab Leaders 1936

The hebrew text reads: Right to left: Jassem Ali (leader of Iraqi group), Fahri Abd-el-Hadi (leader of the Palestinian group), Fawzi kaukgi, Muhamad Tsaab (leader of the Druz group), body guards

Ranbar (talk) 19:08, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks Ranbar! @Liadmalone: That looks like our guy. An article on him should be started, there's plenty of sources about Fakhri Abd al-Hadi. If no one starts it, I'll take a stab at it in the coming days. --Al Ameer (talk) 20:35, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

Ranbar, Thank you very much for scanning and uploading it. @Al Ameer son: Please start the article and notify me when it's ready. I'll change the picture in the Hebrew article about Abu Durra. Liadmalone (talk) 20:48, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

year of death

The date of his capture is 24 July 1939 and this is pretty certain as newspapers reported it a few days later. I didn't find a contemporary report on his execution. Both Morris and Stendel say 1940. So does Y. Porath, The Palestinian Arab National Movement Vol 2, p260. None of these gives the actual date. Porath cites Morton, Just the Job, p65 and an Arabic source. Against this is the book by Jayyusi on Palestinian literature. User:Al_Ameer_son, what's your feeling about this? Zero^talk 14:55, 5 June 2020 (UTC) Matthew Hughes' new book "Britain's Pacification of Palestine" says "hanged in late 1939 or, more likely, early 1940" (p354). Zero^talk 15:20, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

@Zero0000: I'm at a loss as to where I got that date (Sep 30 1939) from, as it's been some time since I edited this article. Was it from Jayyusi? I no longer have access to her work from Google Books, seems it could no longer be previewed. In any case, she would arguably be the weaker source in a matter like this. Being that Morris, Stendel, Porath/Morton and apparently Hughes, all of which are *more* expert sources on this particular subject, have 1940 as the year, we should go with that until we find a more precise date. Please make the change. --Al Ameer (talk) 19:52, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Ok, up to speed now. I see that this was discussed above (it was from Jayyusi), the change to 1940 was made previously but changed to 1939 today; I have reverted it and made the date in the infobox consistent until we find the precise date. Al Ameer (talk) 19:58, 5 June 2020 (UTC)