Talk:Ye (album)

Fan Page

This article is nothing more than a fan page by a Wikipedia moderator. Do not come here for your information. There is something inherently wrong when the article reads like it could have been written by Kanye West himself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.118.10 (talk) 22:08, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose that Draft:Kanye West's eighth studio album be merged into Untitled Kanye West album. Since they both cover the same album, the merging of the two pages seems logical, and any content that is on the one page but not on the other can be brought together, thereby creating a more complete article. Esox masquinongy (talk) 14:22, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Twitter Controvery

Hey, not a huge Wikipedian here, but I'm not sure the Donald Trump tweet is really promotion at all. I guess the general twitter controversy could be said to be causing interest and hype, but Trump in specific has very little relevance. I'd honestly question whether it has anything to do with album at all, but someone should definitely edit this so it doesnt seem like a central focus of the message. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.96.115.36 (talk) 23:31, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

 Done I've separated it into another section. Alduin2000 (talk) 10:20, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Potential protection

This article seems to have been repeatedly updated with false information on the title and tracklisting, suggesting that perhaps it requires a protected status until the official announcement. 46.193.227.90 (talk) 10:40, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

I've added a request here Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. Alduin2000 (talk) 19:10, 24 May 2018 (UTC)

Looks like it's been rejected - not enough recent disruptive editing to justify protection. Alduin2000 (talk) 15:33, 25 May 2018 (UTC)

Title

The title of this article has been changed back and forth between "Untitled Kanye Album" and "Love Everyone" several times in the past 24 hours, leading to discrepancies in the article (for instance, the first sentence suggests that the album is still unnamed even though the article explicitly refers to a name).

The album is planned to be released tomorrow, so the actual album title will be available then. Is it worth trying to come to consensus on the name of this article for today or ignore the discrepancies and fix them when the album is released? SiliconRed (talk) 13:23, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

There's no point trying to come to any consensus and make changes when we can just wait until tomorrow to be certain and fix everything then. Alduin2000 (talk) 13:36, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Sounds good! SiliconRed (talk) 13:59, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Studio album vs. Extended play

So, this has been a subject of fierce discussion with music releases with a similar length to Ye. Notable are discussions over what Lady Gaga's The Fame Monster, a 34-minute music release, would be labelled as on Wikipedia. It was eventually decided to call that release an EP due to frequent references to it as an EP in the media and it's perceived short length to other contemporary album releases. So, I'll preemptively put forward the question. Should Ye, a 23-minute music release, be considered an album or extended play? – PhilipTerryGraham (talk · articles · reviews) 00:29, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Most of the references call it an album, officially it was released as his eightth album. However, there is a source that calls it an EP. I'd say the majority of sources don't refer to it as an EP though so I'd say studio album. Alduin2000 (talk) 01:07, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

I would give it a time (like what happened with TFM). West announed an album, so sources are calling it an album because they were expecting a studio album (like what occurred with Gaga's). I Googled this and there are now 2 sources calling it EP, and one was calling this his ninth studio album (whichever is the reason Wikipedia is excluding Watch the Throne as the sixth one). © Tbhotch^™ (en-2.5). 18:50, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Verifiability trumps the amount of tracks or the length of the album. It appears most sources are referring to this as an album despite its brevity. Chase (talk | contributions) 22:10, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

It is an album because it doesn't have only one or two songs, like a single would have. But there is more than one type of album. There are EP albums (extended play) and LP (long play). With about 23 minutes worth of music, Ye can be called an EP. Kanye West's fans seem to think there's something wrong with saying that it's an EP. Kanye knew he was making a recording of only 23 minutes worth of music; after all, he made it. If it's an EP album, it's an EP album, nothing to get up and arms about. LP albums usually have eight songs or more, and more than 23 minutes of music. This album has 7 songs and 23 minutes (and some seconds) of music. Sure, call it an album, but it's an EP album. And there's nothing wrong with that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.251.118.10 (talk) 22:19, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Recorded: May 2018

Kanye said he re-did the entire album after his TMZ appearance on May 2nd 2018, that means that the final version of “ye” was recorded and completed all in May 2018 in just under a month. Yeezuswest1977 (talk) 05:02, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

Yeezuswest1977 Can you provide a source for this? SiliconRed (talk) 12:47, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

I found this Power 106 FM interview with Kanye at the album listening session in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. At 1 minute 58 seconds on the video, he says "I redid the whole album after TMZ" Vistadan 09:58, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Added a sentence on this in "Release and promotion"! SiliconRed (talk) 13:34, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

Reception

I do not make many edits on Wikipedia, but I'd like to inform you that theneedledrop, arguably the most praised YouTube music reviewer, has awarded the album an 8/10. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crypticmw (talk • contribs) 23:18, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

Fantano's videos aren't used as reviews. See WP:ALBUMAVOID. Alduin2000 (talk) 23:39, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ye (album)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Hurricanehink (talk · contribs) 15:47, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Sure, let's review this.

• "Guest vocals from PartyNextDoor, Ty Dolla Sign, Kid Cudi, Jeremih and 070 Shake, among others, are included on Ye." - add comma after Jeremih (see oxford comma). Other examples:

• " including Lil Yachty, Big Sean and Tyler, the Creator." - similar after "Big Sean" (especially because the comma is in Tyler, the Creator's name)
• "produced, produced and provided guest vocals"  Done

• "West handled the production in its entirety, with additional production by Mike Dean, who serves as a co-executive producer, as well as others. " - why not just say "West produced the album with Mike Dean"? The "handled the production in its entirety" feels like it's about Kanye doing it all (and "handle" is vague anyway), but it's misleading given the rest of the sentence  Done with changes
• "Succeeding the release of Pusha T's Daytona, the album is the second of five seven-track albums produced by West in what have been referred to as the "Wyoming Sessions", and set to be released weekly. It preceded the release of West's collaborative album with Kid Cudi, as Kids See Ghosts, titled Kids See Ghosts, Nas' Nasir, and Teyana Taylor's K.T.S.E.. " - this is a bit confusing and a bit of a run-on. I suggest it be split up into additional sentences, or just simplified a bit  Done
• "Ye became West's record-equalling eighth consecutive album to debut at number one on the US Billboard 200." - bolded part is confusing

  Do you want me to reword record-equalling or mention that he tied Eminem's record?

  Yea, I guess I'm just used to reading it as "record-tying". I'd mention that he tied Eminem's record, yea. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:53, 18 April 2020 (UTC)  Done with changes

• Link Calabasas?  Done
• "The meeting occurred at West's office in Calabasas, following on from him recording in Wyoming, having bought a property named Monster Lake Ranch for recording and renamed it West Lake Ranch." - was the property in California or Wyoming?  Done
• "West returned to Wyoming in May 2018 for the recording of then-upcoming albums." - I suggest you add something like, "...which were later referred as the Wyoming Sessions" here. It's at the start of the paragraph when you start explaining the series, and you never really say who called it the "Wyoming Sessions", but it feels like a natural addition here  Done
• "Prior to referencing mental health on the album, West had mentioned it within his music in the past, especially on The Life of Pablo" - shouldn't this go under "themes and lyrics"?  Not done I placed it here as well as including similar info in themes and lyrics due to a discussion on Talk:Kids See Ghosts (album)/GA1
• "On June 4, 2018, West's wife Kim Kardashian reconfirmed this and revealed that two weeks were spent recording Ye." - should that be "re-recording"?  Done
• "The following day" - I suggest merging this paragraph with the previous one, if you're going to start by referencing a date in the previous paragraph. It's helpful to the reader for the flow/sequence  Done
• "Lucy Jones of The Daily Telegraph noted certain works as being reminiscent of West's third studio album Graduation (2007), viewing the piano chords and Slick Rick sample on the track "No Mistakes" as "old-school West," while also stating that certain vocals on "Ghost Town" are old school West" - if you're going to say "old school West" twice, I suggest reordering it so you don't have to. I suggest something like - "...viewing the piano chords and Slick Rick sample on the track "No Mistakes", and certain vocals on "Ghost Town", as "old school West"  Done
• ""No Mistakes" includes a series of self-righteous outbursts, coming from the perspective of a self-made millionaire in West." - not having ever heard the song, I'm not sure what the "self-made millionaire in West" part means  Done
• "However, West's previous two albums Yeezus and The Life of Pablo were heavily bootlegged" - as vinyls?  Done
• There's probably not much on it, but it strikes me as interesting that the album cover image was taken the day before the album was released. Did that cause any issues that the image was so delayed? Or because everything is digital now, I'm just reading too much into that?

  Probably the latter

• "The soundtrack album denied West a number one album on his own birthday and prevented him from topping the chart for the third time in his career." - the birthday bit is a neat addition. Nothing wrong here

All in all it's a good read. Good description going from Kanye's breakdown on his tour, through the recording process, and through the charting history of the album. I hope my comments aren't too problematic, nothing seemed like it would be too difficult to fix. Let me know if you have any questions. ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:47, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

• @Hurricanehink: Thanks, initial round of response and I'll get to the rest soon! --Kyle Peake (talk) 16:47, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

• @Hurricanehink: Could you reply to my questions? --Kyle Peake (talk) 18:47, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

• Thanks so much for the quick replies! My last quibble is about the "record-equalling" (which I think has one too many l's, but again, "tying" is probably more common/better). ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:53, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

• @Hurricanehink: Thank you for taking the time to review this, I have responded to everything. Just one question; should the critical overview say generally favourable or generally positive? --Kyle Peake (talk) 07:09, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

• I think your usage of "favorable" is fine, since it's a US-based musician. Happy to pass the article! ♫ Hurricanehink (talk) 13:13, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Mini-Album Format

The Wall Street Journal and NME call it a Mini-album, and the Mini-LP (aka Mini-album) article has cited it as an example of this unique format (which is a type of Album) for the past 6 years. Attempts to note this in the article have been met with edit-warring, so I'm bringing it here to discuss as needed. What am I missing? Thanks. —Shada Ng (talk | contribs) 22:56, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Two sources are not enough to call the albums mini albums; it should be supported by multiple sources calling them that. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 23:01, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Ok… how many sources would you like for there to be? —Shada Ng (talk | contribs) 23:08, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Pinging @Kyle Peake, Binksternet, and JeffSpaceman: in this discussion. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 23:06, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Kanye West is one of my least favorite musical artists. And today is the first time I heard of the mini-LP concept. So I'm probably not the best person to ping. But when I looked at the Wall Street Journal article about mini-LPs, my takeaway is that Mr. West was planning to release five mini-LPs by other artists. Five artists, and five mini-LPs. But the article at Mini-LP lists six albums, including this one. Which is confusing to me. I looked for more support for this label and found nothing solid. I'm not convinced it should be mentioned at all. Leave it out. Binksternet (talk) 23:36, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

The Mini-LP article mentions twelve examples, actually, though its purpose is not to approach a complete list of any kind if that's what you're expecting (?). Either way, the point of the source in the case of *this* article is to note that it's one of them. I suggest that your other concern about the number of examples is an issue for a different article. —Shada Ng (talk | contribs) 23:40, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

This appears to be a case of one topic being important to another in only one direction. Like if some new rock musician said Bruce Springsteen was an influence, that information would only be important at the new person's biography, not at Springsteen's.

Certainly the Wall Street Journal article lists this album as a mini-LP. Which makes it important to the mini-LP topic. But the vast majority of media sources are not following suit by calling Ye a mini-LP. The balance is not in favor of the label. Too much WP:WEIGHT given to that label. Binksternet (talk) 00:19, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate the ping, TheAmazingPeanuts. I basically side entirely with your comments above as well as Binksternet's (though I differ from him in that I am a fan of Kanye West as a performer) -- there is not enough sourcing to support calling it (or Kids See Ghosts (album)) a "mini-album." As you point out, only having two sources is insufficient. If a greater number of sources (or better yet, something referring to the albums as mini-albums/LPs from West or others involved in the production themselves) can be found, perhaps I'd be willing to budge, but I just don't see enough sourcing to venture away from the Wikipedia:STATUSQUO. JeffSpaceman (talk) 00:03, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I'll ask you the same question I asked above - if two are not sufficient (never mind two from very reliable sources), how many would you like for there to be? Also, I would caution against relying on primary sources. —Shada Ng (talk | contribs) 00:16, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

As Binksternet has stated above, it's not just a question of suffiency, it's a question of due weight -- see the section of the WP:NPOV linked in his comment. There is currently not enough balance provided in favor of calling Ye or Kids See Ghosts mini-LPs on their own articles. JeffSpaceman (talk) 00:46, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

It's possible that some of you are missing that a mini-album is noted as a type of album… so, sources calling it an "album" don't conflict with those calling it a "mini-album." Both are true. —Shada Ng (talk | contribs) 14:35, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Shubopshadangalang's idea of labeling the article as mini-LP[1] isn't gaining traction. But I don't see why we can't tell the reader that this album was the prototype for his new marketing concept of the mini-LP with seven songs and twenty-something minutes in length. He followed Ye with five albums that he produced for other artists in the same format. We can put something like that in the body of the article, even though it is not defining. Binksternet (talk) 15:21, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I would be in favor of that idea. —Shada Ng (talk | contribs) 16:38, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

I would however tweak the wording, as it almost seems to suggest that Kanye invented the format. —Shada Ng (talk | contribs) 18:23, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, this is suitable for it to be called mini-album but the wording is slightly off due to the implication previously stated. K. Peake 19:28, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

That's not a bad idea. I think that could work. JeffSpaceman (talk) 17:39, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

As a follow-up, a solution that has worked for several other releases in the mini-album format is to leave the standard infobox type, adding "(mini-album)" as the longtype. See The Planet (album), The Honeydrippers: Volume One and U2's Under a Blood Red Sky as examples. —Shada Ng (talk | contribs) 00:23, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Only two sources called the albums mini-albums, not the majority of sources. I don't think it's necessary to include that in the infoboxes. TheAmazingPeanuts (talk) 01:25, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

There are at least six, actually, including The Wall Street Journal, Billboard, and NME, and, again, with mini-album being a sub-type of album, these don't conflict with other sources calling it an "album": —Shada Ng (talk | contribs) 04:25, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

References