Talk:Women in aviation

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 September 2019 and 21 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Alisharodrigue.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:58, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Aviatrix

Abolishing use of the term "Aviatrix" is being discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aviation#Aviatrix. You are invited to contribute to the discussion. — Cheers, Steelpillow (Talk) 18:41, 24 August 2016 (UTC)

I'd advocate only using it in a historical sense... they were referred to in that manner in the past. We could make the historical context better in the article. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:55, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Others to include?

In the early days of aerial exploration, were there female balloonists? What about the "wing-dancers", who performed for public entertainment on the outside of those tiny early planes?

The article contains fascinating examples, but it's so bitty. Would it be better to divide the content by decade, by country, by civil/military, or how? Carbon Caryatid (talk) 15:43, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Yes, and yes, to balloonists and wing-dancers, IMO Carbon Caryatid. So much of the article isn't cited, I am trying to help Megalibrarygirl add citations, but if you have any sources, and/or people, add them. I added quite a few yesterday and will get back to it in a bit. My thought would be by decade as each of those things happened within time frames. But that is just my take. SusunW (talk) 16:43, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

I added the ATA as a significant organisation. I'd like to know more about Elly Beinhorn, who flew around the world in the 1930s (and then, somewhat inevitably, was co-opted by the Nazis). Carbon Caryatid (talk) 17:18, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Hi! Carbon Caryatid, I'm really glad for the help. The article was really bad when I stumbled on it and as I'm working on it, it's still not too much better. I could definitely use the help. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 17:55, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

Perhaps have a look at Aviation and History of aviation to consider what sections would be most logical. Do you have access to any good sources? (I don't; I'm acting more as a wikignome.) I remember reading about the initial opposition to any women working on aircraft; we now think of early cabin attendants as automatically "stewardesses" or "hostesses", but apparently even this was not accomplished without a struggle. I don't know if that would fit in this article, or whether it should be restricted to pilots.Carbon Caryatid (talk) 18:12, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

I like the idea of including stewards/hosts as well. It was, as you say part of the history. SusunW (talk) 18:22, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

@SusunW and Carbon Caryatid:, I second the hostess information--I think other support roles like flight control are important to add. I've added a little to the article about the first flight attendants who were women. Also, Carbon Caryatid, we are super glad to have a wikignome helping out. it's helpful to have another pair of eyes looking at content being added. Your suggestions have been very useful. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 01:36, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

@Megalibrarygirl and Carbon Caryatid:I second that. I think we've added every area you suggested as well as a test pilot, I found. Still working through sourcing. 1910 looking pretty good. Working on the 1920s and Sue, the timeline thing is really helpful. I am sure I missed something important, but didn't want to include those who got licensed and never flew again. SusunW (talk) 01:48, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

@SusunW:, I'm glad the timeline is helpful. It needs work, though. But I think we'll all be able to add to it as time goes on. :) I just found a source for air traffic controllers. I'm adding a brief mention and will do more later. I'm being summoned by family. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 01:59, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Unsourced material

Adding some unsourced material here. Some other material I am moving to Timeline of women in aviation since it would be more appropriate there. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 01:36, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

Pakistan Ms Shukrya Khanum became a pioneer by receiving her Commercial Licence in 60s [clarification needed] closely followed by Ms Maliha Sami and Ms Aysha, they were both inducted by PIA as commercial flyers. Capt Natasha Sami who is the fourth female pilot in the history of Pakistan, then moved on to become the first female to have received the Airline Transport Pilot's Licence in the country's history.

Names to include

Is there room for Lucy, Lady Houston? She was the "saviour of the Spitfire", as patriot and philanthropist. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 23:08, 20 December 2016 (UTC)

"Capable"

There is a section in the article titled "Sexism" which states "Women often had to work hard to prove themselves as capable as men in the field."

I have two issues with this:

1) The title of the section is itself highly biased, because from the start it is implying the restrictions or hurdles of women in aviation was all due to "sexism", which is itself a very loaded and ambiguous term, rather than some quite valid socio-cultural or practical reasons (especially in keeping women from combat aviation roles, and combat roles in general).

2) The fact that women pilots worked hard to prove their capability is not in dispute. What is flat out incorrect is that they ever proved themselves to be just as capable as male combat pilots, which they did not, and have not. A tiny few have proved their capability and skill to be combat pilots, but no where close to being of equal ability as the top male pilots. The biological differences simply will not allow us to see female pilots as capable or perform the same feats as the remarkable Japanese and American combat pilots in the Pacific War for example. 67.70.11.121 (talk) 12:34, 1 December 2021 (UTC)