Talk:Wilson's disease
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Review
editdoi:10.1016/j.mcna.2013.09.008 JFW | T@lk 11:07, 19 January 2014 (UTC)
Research directions
editJulie Saeger Nierenberg added a section "research directions". I've moved it here because I have some concerns.
| “ | Tetrathiomolybdate is regarded as experimental, though some studies have shown a beneficial effect in Wilson's disease patients. As of 2014, tetrathiomolybdate had been tested in over 500 patients for up to seven years, primarily in oncology and Wilson's disease.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15] In these studies, tetrathiomolybdate has been shown to lower copper levels faster than currently available treatments. Also, these data indicate, when treated with tetrathiomolybdate, fewer patients with Wilson disease experienced the initial neurological deterioration frequently seen with other available de-coppering agents.[16][17][18] It is hypothesized that the unique mechanism of action for tetrathiomolybdate that leads to the rapid and improved control of copper translates into this improved clinical feature. The bis choline salt formulation of tetrathiomolybdate, known as WTX101, is currently under clinical development by Wilson Therapeutics. [19] | ” |
The main issue is that this focuses entirely on one experimental treatment. A "research directions" section should cover all major recent development. Furthermore, it should be based on secondary sources (see WP:MEDRS for sourcing guidelines). In addition, the section talks a lot about oncological use of molybdenum, which is a little bit off-topic. Let me know if I can be of any assistance in getting this covered. JFW | T@lk 07:52, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
- The article already says pretty much everything there is to say about molybdate. It is used experimentally but with some evidence of benefit. Julie's addition of huge numbers of references (some not directly relevant to Wilson's) and the name of a company manufacturing the stuff is not helpful. JFW | T@lk 09:07, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi, Dr. Wolff. Thank you for your advice and patience with me as I learn how to navigate the nuances of best practices for Wikipedia. I will revisit this and possibly solicit your guidance when new information and secondary resources are available to substantiate and reinforce the various applicable points made in these multiple references. Kindest regards Julie Saeger Nierenberg (talk) 16:25, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
References
editReferences
- ^ Askari F, Innis D, Dick RB, Hou G, Marrero J, Greenson J, Brewer GJ, 2010. "Treatment of primary biliary cirrhosis with tetrathiomolybdate: results of a double-blind trial." Transl Res 155: 123-130.
- ^ Berenson JR, Boccia RV, Bashey A, Levine AM, Koc ON, Callahan JA, Mazar AP, Reich SD, 2006. "Phase I Study of the [Cu, Zn] Superoxide Dismutase (SOD1) Inhibitor ATN-224 (Bis-Choline Tetrathiomolybdate) in Patients with Advanced Hematologic Malignancies. Presentation at the Amer Soc Hematol 2006 Annual Meeting". Blood 108: Abstract 2593.
- ^ Brewer GJ, Askari F, Dick RB, Sitterly J, Fink JK, Carlson M, Kluin KJ, Lorincz MT, 2009. "Treatment of Wilson's disease with tetrathiomolybdate: V. Control of free copper by tetrathiomolybdate and a comparison with trientine". Transl Res 154: 70-77.
- ^ Brewer GJ, Askari F, Lorincz, MT, Carlson M, Schilsky M, Kluin KJ, Hedera P, Moretti P, Fink JK, Tankanow R, Dick RB, Sitterly J, 2006. "Treatment of Wilson disease with ammonium tetrathiomolybdate: IV. Comparison of tetrathiomolybdate and trientine in a double-blind study of treatment of the neurologic presentation of Wilson disease". Arch Neurol 63: 521-527.
- ^ Brewer GJ, Dick RD, Grover DK, LeClaire V, Tseng M, Wicha M, Pienta K, Redman BG, Jahan T, Sondak VK, Strawderman M, LeCarpentier G, Merajver SD, 2000. "Treatment of metastatic cancer with tetrathiomolybdate, an anticopper, antiangiogenic agent: Phase I study". Clin Cancer Res 6: 1-10.
- ^ Brewer GJ, Hedera P, Kluin KJ, Carlson M, Askari F, Dick RB, Sitterly J, Fink JK, 2003. "Treatment of Wilson disease with ammonium tetrathiomolybdate: III. Initial therapy in a total of 55 neurologically affected patients and follow-up with zinc therapy". Arch Neurol 60: 379-385.
- ^ Gartner EM, Griffith KA, Pan Q, Brewer GJ, Henja GF, Merajver SD, Zalupski MM, 2009. "A pilot trial of the anti-angiogenic copper lowering agent tetrathiomolybdate in combination with irinotecan, 5-flurouracil, and leucovorin for metastatic colorectal cancer". Invest New Drugs 27: 159-165.
- ^ Henry NL, Dunn R, Merjaver S, Pan Q, Pienta KJ, Brewer G, Smith DC, 2006. "Phase II trial of copper depletion with tetrathiomolybdate as an antiangiogenesis strategy in patients with hormone-refractory prostate cancer". Oncology 71: 168-175.
- ^ Jain S, Cohen J, Ward MM, Kornhauser N, Chuang E, Cigler T, Moore A, Donovan D, Lam C, Cobham MV, Schneider S, Hurtado Rua SM, Benkert S, Mathijsen Greenwood C, Zelkowitz R, Warren JD, Lane ME, Mittal V, Rafii S, Vahdat LT, 2013. "Tetrathiomolybdate-associated copper depletion decreases circulating endothelial progenitor cells in women with breast cancer at high risk of relapse". Annals of oncology : official journal of the European Society for Medical Oncology / ESMO.
- ^ Lin J, Zahurak M, Beer TM, Ryan CJ, Wilding G, Mathew P, Morris M, Callahan JA, Gordon G, Reich SD, Carducci MA, Antonarakis ES, 2011. "A non-comparative randomized phase II study of 2 doses of ATN-224, a copper/zinc superoxide dismutase inhibitor, in patients with biochemically recurrent hormone-naive prostate cancer". Urologic oncology. 31(5):581-8
- ^ Lowndes SA, Adams A, Timms A, Fisher N, Smythe J, Watt SM, Joel S, Donate F, Hayward C, Reich S, Middleton M, Mazar A, Harris AL, 2008. "Phase I study of copper-binding agent ATN-224 in patients with advanced solid tumors". Clin Cancer Res 14: 7526-7534.
- ^ Pass HI, Brewer GJ, Dick R, Carbone M, Merajver S, 2008. "A phase II trial of tetrathiomolybdate after surgery for malignant mesothelioma: final results". Ann Thorac Surg 86: 383-389; discussion 390.
- ^ Redman BG, Esper P, Pan Q, Dunn RL, Hussain HK, Chenevert T, Brewer GJ, Merajver SD, 2003. "Phase II trial of tetrathiomolybdate in patients with advanced kidney cancer". Clin Cancer Res 9: 1666-1672.
- ^ Schneider BJ, Lee JS, Hayman JA, Chang AC, Orringer MB, Pickens A, Pan CC, Merajver SD, Urba SG, 2012. "Pre-operative chemoradiation followed by post-operative adjuvant therapy with tetrathiomolybdate, a novel copper chelator, for patients with resectable esophageal cancer". Invest New Drugs.
- ^ Vine AK, Brewer GJ, 2002. "Tetrathiomolybdate as an antiangiogenesis therapy for subfoveal choroidal neovascularization secondary to age-related macular degeneration". Trans Am Ophthalmol Soc 100: 73-76; discussion 76-77.
- ^ Brewer GJ, Askari F, Dick RB, Sitterly J, Fink JK, Carlson M, Kluin KJ, Lorincz MT, 2009. "Treatment of Wilson's disease with tetrathiomolybdate: V. Control of free copper by tetrathiomolybdate and a comparison with trientine". Transl Res 154: 70-77.
- ^ Brewer GJ, Askari F, Lorincz MT, Carlson M, Schilsky M, Kluin KJ, Hedera P, Moretti P, Fink JK, Tankanow R, Dick RB, Sitterly J, 2006. "Treatment of Wilson disease with ammonium tetrathiomolybdate: IV. Comparison of tetrathiomolybdate and trientine in a double-blind study of treatment of the neurologic presentation of Wilson disease". Arch Neurol 63: 521-527.
- ^ Brewer GJ, Hedera P, Kluin KJ, Carlson M, Askari F, Dick RB, Sitterly J, Fink JK, 2003. "Treatment of Wilson disease with ammonium tetrathiomolybdate: III. Initial therapy in a total of 55 neurologically affected patients and follow-up with zinc therapy". Arch Neurol 60: 379-385.
- ^ [1], BioCentury 16 April 2014
Annals NYAS
editThis May, the Ann N Y Assoc Med discussed copper metabolism in great detail TOC. There are two issues; to reach the "clinical" issue, press "next issue" from the TOC of the first. JFW | T@lk 21:44, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
Article Formatting
editThe treatment section had poor readability and so has been updated with subheadings and bullet points. If you disagree with the subheadings then please suggest alternative ones. If you disagree with the bullet points, please explain why. Hardtofindscience (talk) 23:15, 24 October 2014 (UTC)
- I don't know what you found so hard to read and understand in the Treatment section, which has undergone a good article review as you can see above. But in any case classifying medical treatments as old-current-new instead of based on their indication, mode of action, effectiveness, side-effects etc is frankly silly (ie, unless one were specifically discussing the history of development of these treatments, which is not the case here) and the reason both User:SandyGeorgia and I reverted your change. If you wish to propose such a idiosyncratic scheme for this article discuss first and obtain concensus for it here (or, wikipedia-wide at WP:MED). I am reverting your changes till you establish such a consensus, and note that continuing to edit-war on the page is liable to your getting blocked. Abecedare (talk) 00:09, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
- I didn't find it so hard, it's just that generally any piece of informative writing which has a lot of text can benefit from things like subheadings and bullet-points to help the reader. If you find the subheadings "silly" then why not simply suggest new ones? Also, do you have any objection to using bullet-points to list the chelation treatments - if so could you explain why? Hardtofindscience (talk) 00:21, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
- It may be a matter of stylistic preference, but typically in encyclopedic/formal writing free-flowing text and non-stubby sections are preferred over bullet-pointed lists that are all too reminiscent of powerpoint presentations (I myself favor bullet-points on talk pages, but horses for courses ...). But, list vs paragraphs was a minor issue with your edits and not the primary reason for my reversion.
- Aside: I hope that instead of us being fixated on stylistic issues, someone will make an effort to update the article with more recent references than the ones currently used (I have personal opinions on the subject, and a potential second-order COI, so I don't intend to make any "content" additions to the page itself). Abecedare (talk) 00:44, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
- Would you have any objection to me adding back in the bullet-points then? Perhaps we can discuss other changes to the section, such as subheadings, in the future. Hardtofindscience (talk) 00:47, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
- I prefer the current version, but frankly am indifferent on the issue of bullet-points. But given that you are on the verge of 3RR violation, I would suggest that you drop a note at WP:MED or at Sandy's talk page to make sure there is no objection from editors who edit medical articles more regularly. before making the change. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 00:56, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
- I have formatted the medications as a bullet-point list. Just for the record, I have/had no intention of edit-warring, nor am I on the verge of a 3RR violation, I'm simply making the section easier to read. Hardtofindscience (talk) 15:36, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
- I prefer the current version, but frankly am indifferent on the issue of bullet-points. But given that you are on the verge of 3RR violation, I would suggest that you drop a note at WP:MED or at Sandy's talk page to make sure there is no objection from editors who edit medical articles more regularly. before making the change. Cheers. Abecedare (talk) 00:56, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
- Would you have any objection to me adding back in the bullet-points then? Perhaps we can discuss other changes to the section, such as subheadings, in the future. Hardtofindscience (talk) 00:47, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
- I didn't find it so hard, it's just that generally any piece of informative writing which has a lot of text can benefit from things like subheadings and bullet-points to help the reader. If you find the subheadings "silly" then why not simply suggest new ones? Also, do you have any objection to using bullet-points to list the chelation treatments - if so could you explain why? Hardtofindscience (talk) 00:21, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
(←) Hello Hardtofindscience. Your edits have unfortunately destabilised the article. Please hear me out before doing any more reverting. Your editing changed very little to the actual factual content of the article, but it led to the creation of entire sections without a single reference; that is a step backwards and affects article quality. Furthermore, you tried to reformat entire sections using the "bullet point" approach. This is fine for a medical handbook, but MOS:LISTBULLET is quite clear that it should be avoided if you can say the same in prose. I am aware that some of the content is in need of updating, but ideally without sweeping changes to the organisation. JFW | T@lk 21:55, 26 October 2014 (UTC)
Review
edit"Disease-a-Month" doi:10.1016/j.disamonth.2014.07.002. JFW | T@lk 17:34, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
re: TTM studies and Wilson's disease
editThank you for your message, Dr. Wolff. If references about ongoing investigations of bis-choline TTM are inappropriate to use, even in the specific context of that wording, then I will not post them. I am learning and appreciate the feedback to this process. Julie Saeger Nierenberg (talk) 14:52, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
- Please refrain from adding primary sources: relevant research directions will be mentioned in secondary reviews. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:03, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
- Julie Saeger Nierenberg I have explained on several occasions that references to individual studies, particularly when still ongoing, are generally not suitable. An encyclopedia is not a support group for patients and their carers. Many studies will be negative, and discussing them here would raise false hopes for no good reason at all. JFW | T@lk 00:02, 13 February 2015 (UTC)
Who to screen
editFerenci: doi:10.1586/17474124.2014.899898 JFW | T@lk 09:30, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
Review
editLancet neurology doi:10.1016/S1474-4422(14)70190-5 JFW | T@lk 17:37, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
Cost of treatment
editRising sharply. May be suitable for inclusion doi:10.1002/hep.27663 JFW | T@lk 22:11, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
Deficiency
editBecause this disease prevents one from metabolizing copper, and all the treatments are about removing copper from the body, do they then develop copper deficiency? Isn't that just as fatal? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.72.206.153 (talk) 06:29, 30 January 2016 (UTC)
- Dunno about fatality, but excessive decoppering could lead to copper deficiency. JFW | T@lk 15:53, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
Copper deficiency in animals
editThe last sentence of the last section: "In non-Wilsonian copper accumulation states (such as Indian childhood cirrhosis), no COMMD1 mutations could be detected to explain their genetic origin.[30]" appears to be about human children and not about animals, even though it may or may not come from the article footnoted in [30] which is about dogs. In other words, this paragraph is entitled animals (dogs), not Indian children. Christinedoby (talk) 23:56, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
Canine models
editUp-to-date review doi:10.3390/ijms17020196. JFW | T@lk 21:04, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
Paediatric review
editdoi:10.3928/19382359-20181026-01 JFW | T@lk 11:24, 12 December 2018 (UTC)