Talk:William R. Crawford Jr.

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 15:49, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

William R. Crawford Jr.

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• ... that after US ambassador to Cyprus Rodger Davies was assassinated, the then-US ambassador to Yemen, William R. Crawford Jr., was appointed as his replacement? Source: "While ambassador to Yemen in 1974, Mr. Crawford was ordered to Cyprus to replace Ambassador Rodger P. Davies, who had been assassinated in Nicosia." [1]
  • ALT1:... that after US ambassador to Cyprus Rodger Davies was assassinated, William R. Crawford Jr. was appointed as his replacement? Source: "While ambassador to Yemen in 1974, Mr. Crawford was ordered to Cyprus to replace Ambassador Rodger P. Davies, who had been assassinated in Nicosia." [2]

• Reviewed: History of the Caltech House System

Created by Bejinhan (talk). Self-nominated at 16:18, 8 June 2019 (UTC).

• New enough, long enough.Zigzig20s (talk) 16:53, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
• Neutral, well-cited, no copyright violation detected.
• I standardized the layout. The lede is too short.Zigzig20s (talk) 18:01, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

• I didn't know lede length is a requirement in WP:DYK... but I've expanded it into a brief summary of the article. Bejinhan talks 18:14, 8 June 2019 (UTC)
• Thanks. ALT1 is better. Interesting to a broad audience. QPQ done. I cannot double-check the offline book, but I assume good faith and there are other references about his father anyway. Good to go!Zigzig20s (talk) 18:29, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

• Thanks! I've struck out the first suggestion. Bejinhan talks 19:00, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

• Returning from prep for a better hook per discussion at WT:DYK. Yoninah (talk) 00:30, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

• @Yoninah, Cwmhiraeth, Zigzag20s, and Valereee: This nomination has been stuck for several weeks now with no alternative hook proposed. Can we try to discuss formulating a new hook? It was suggested back in the WT:DYK discussion that he took the position as ambassador within four days of the assassination. Would a hook based on that work? Or is a new direction needed? Because right now, I can't really see any option other than the assassination/appointment fact. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 03:51, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

@Zigzig20s:. Leaving this for someone else as I can't access the Washington Post article. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:03, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

I can get to the WaPo obit, but it doesn't give anything. The Time article that's the source for "immediately" might, but that's one I can't get to. It doesn't look like Bejinhan has edited since June; can we give her another few days? --valereee (talk) 12:38, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

• I don't see any "immediately" in the New York Times source. Here is an alt:
• ALT2: ... that William R. Crawford Jr., a 30-year veteran of the US Foreign Service, was exposed to foreign cultures as a youth living with his professor-father in France, Brazil, and Chile? Yoninah (talk) 22:49, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Sounds good. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 23:02, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

• @Narutolovehinata5:@Zigzig20s: we need a tick here please. Yoninah (talk) 09:40, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

It's a bit boring. Many diplomats grow up OCONUS.Zigzig20s (talk) 09:56, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

True, but I don't think that's common knowledge and it might still be appealing to the average reader. Another option could be to go with ALT2, but mentioning his posts in Yemen and Cyprus as well for contrast purposes. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 09:58, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

What was wrong with ALT1 please?Zigzig20s (talk) 10:01, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Well, after ambassadors are assassinated, they're usually replaced. Yoninah (talk) 10:03, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

We are at an impasse. There is nothing interesting about his OCONUS background; it's just another celebration of social status. Did he achieve anything extraordinary that could be found in the public domain?Zigzig20s (talk) 10:22, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

• We are not at an impasse. We are trying to write something hooky about someone who is not very hooky, using "compare and contrast" hook wording. ALT1 has plenty of hook interest. I think we need another set of eyes. Yoninah (talk) 13:21, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

• I agree that it's not that unusual for diplomats to have experiences as a child in other countries. I do think it's unusual for an ambassador to be assassinated, so I'd suggest a variation on the first two hooks:

• ALT3 ... that William R. Crawford Jr. was appointed as US ambassador to Cyprus after Rodger Davies, the previous ambassador, was assassinated?

Or just go for ALT1.RebeccaGreen (talk) 16:39, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

ALT3 is fine by me.Zigzig20s (talk) 17:07, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

ALT3 sounds good. Have the earlier sourcing issues regarding the WaPo source been fixed? Because if they have, this is probably good to go now. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:39, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Narutolovehinata5, I'm not sure what the issue was (there seems to be some discussion of "immediately", which is neither in the hook nor the article, now). What the WaPo obituary says is, "While ambassador to Yemen in 1974, Mr. Crawford was ordered to Cyprus to replace Ambassador Rodger P. Davies, who had been assassinated in Nicosia." That certainly confirms what is stated in the hook. RebeccaGreen (talk) 10:46, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

@RebeccaGreen: I really appreciate your input on this and other DYK nominations. But what is hooky about ALT3? If the hook interest is focusing on someone else's assassination, then it tells us nothing about the bolded subject. Yoninah (talk) 18:03, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Yoninah, well, 3 of us thought it was interesting. Taking on a position where the previous office holder was assassinated takes bravery, I would have thought, so it does say something about the bolded subject. As I said above, it's not usual for diplomats to be assassinated, so that makes me want to know something about both the guy who was killed, and the guy who took on a dangerous assignment. RebeccaGreen (talk) 18:17, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I'll abide by consensus. Yoninah (talk) 18:42, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

• Narutolovehinata5, Valereee, Zigzig20s, etc: I'm sure you're all busy, but I think, per discussion under the last new reviewer symbol, this just needs a tick for ALT3 from someone who didn't write it. RebeccaGreen (talk) 15:07, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

• .Zigzig20s (talk) 15:16, 26 August 2019 (UTC)