Talk:Where Are You Tonight? (Journey Through Dark Heat)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:57, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that Bob Dylan's line "horseplay and disease is killing me by degrees" in "Where Are You Tonight? (Journey Through Dark Heat)" has been called the sound of a man who has hit the wall? Source: Alan Light in Dylan: Disc by Disc (2015) p.119 (via Google books) "you know not just as an artist, but as a guy, he has hit the wall."

*ALT1 ... that "Where Are You Tonight? (Journey Through Dark Heat)" by Bob Dylan has been interpreted as a sign of his conversion to Christianity and also been dismissed as mumbo-jumbo?Source: Michael J. Gilmour (2011): The Gospel according to Bob Dylan: The Old, Old Story of Modern Times pages=71–77

• Reviewed: Hans Lauda
• Comment: Suggestions for ALT hooks and for any article improvements welcome.

Created by BennyOnTheLoose (talk). Self-nominated at 11:58, 3 May 2020 (UTC).

• New enough, long enough, passes earwig, QPQ done. Approving Alt0. --evrik ^(talk) 03:18, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Where Are You Tonight? (Journey Through Dark Heat)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: K. Peake (talk · contribs) 07:54, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV () 3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant () Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Going for this one since it is the oldest GA nominee of the songs subtopic, on first glance it looks a bit messy but I believe the issues can be fixed with suggestions that I will deliver in proper detail soon.

Many thanks for taking this on, Kyle Peake. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:13, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

BennyOnTheLoose It is my pleasure and I have commented on the infobox and lead though will do more soon! --K. Peake 10:57, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Infobox and lead

• Remove img of Bob Dylan from the infobox since that is not an appropriate area; either place in a relevant section or delete altogether

• Done (removed). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• The album is titled Street-Legal, so fix this

• Done (removed). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Rundown Studios, Santa Monica, California → Rundown Studios (Santa Monica, California) with the appropriate wikilink

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• WP:OVERLINK of Bob Dylan under songwriter(s)

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "which appeared as the final track on his 1978 album Street Legal." → "released as the closing track on his 18th studio album Street-Legal (1978)."

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• The following sentence should be one stating the writer and producer of the song

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "suggested both that it references Dylan's divorce and that it foreshadows or announces" → "suggested that it references Dylan's divorce as well as foreshadowing or announcing"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "the religiously-focused albums that followed Street Legal." → "the religiously-focused projects that followed the album."

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• This sentence and the following one belong after Dylan's statement about the song

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "have also claimed that" → "have also opined that"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• ""enemy within"." → ""enemy within.""

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "The released version of the song" → "The final version of "Where Are You Tonight? (Journey Through Dark Heat)""

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Target Santa Monica to Santa Monica, California

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "released on Street-Legal on June 15, 1978." → "released on Street-Legal in June of that year."

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Add a sentence after stating whether the reception was positive/negative, plus state what critics praised/criticized

• Done - please feed back. (I was actually surprised how positive the 1978 reviews were.) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:02, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

• Before "The song was highlight..." and the rest of the overview, add something like: "The song received widespread acclaim from music critics" to begin the sentence(s). --K. Peake 07:03, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 11:34, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

• Mention that the remasters feature the song

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:02, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

• "all in 1978." → "all throughout 1978."

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 12:27, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Background and recording

• Remove further information template
• Remove wikilink on Street-Legal
• "including "Where Are You Tonight? (Journey Through Dark Heat)" on" → "including "Where Are You Tonight? (Journey Through Dark Heat)", on"
• Remove wikilink on Minnesota
• "composed the songs for his" → "composed the songs on his"
• Target Santa Monica to Santa Monica, California
• "at a session where" → "during a session where"
• "the version that was released was" → "the version ultimately released was"
• "at Rundown Studios on April 27, 1978, and featured a" → "at Rundown Studios the following day, featuring a"
• "The latter recording was" → "It was"
• Remove target on produced
• Target engineered to Audio engineer
• "The song was released as the closing track to Street-Legal on June 15, 1978." → "The song was released on June 15, 1978, as the final track on Dylan's 18th studio album Street-Legal."

• The points above on "Background and recording" have now been addressed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:37, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• You can keep this sentence in a separate paragraph but it needs more added afterwards; I will point out what from the following section

• Done (I think - please check). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:47, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

• That is fine, looks long enough to be a para. --K. Peake 07:03, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Interpretation and critical reception

• This is currently quite jumbled and parts of it don't belong in this section; I will note these and also try to help you split Composition and lyrical interpretation into a separate section from Critical reception
• Nogowski's closing song opinion belongs in the previous section's last para, though what he calls the song itself belongs here

• Done (I think - please check). BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Yeah, that looks alright. --K. Peake 08:50, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

• "of all he was going" → "of all [Dylan] was going"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "sounds like one here." → "sounds like one here.""

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "in the line" → "in the line,"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Heylin's entire sentence belongs in the previous section's last para

• Moved. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Cott's opinion is about critical reception

• Moved. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Are you sure it's brought to mind or brings to mind in this context?

• "brings to mind" seems better. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Target van Gogh to Vincent van Gogh

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "The Biblical language" → "The song's Biblical language" with the target

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "believes that the album" → "believes that Street-Legal"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Target long-distance train to Longest train services

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "and Dylan's next album" → "and how Dylan's next album"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Wikilink Slow Train Coming

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Target Christian to Christian music

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "but do believe, like Gilmour" → "though believe similarly to Gilmour"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Can you reword this and the other sentences to make them relevant to the song itself without adding WP:OR?

   Pending

  Maybe it's fine to not specifically mention the song in every sentence if the sentences are of relevance to the album's theme(s) that the song is connected to? --K. Peake 08:50, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

• Mention Michael Gray by his full name here

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "to embracing Christ"." → "to embracing Christ."" with the target

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Sounes' opinion belongs in reception if you can word it to be of relevance to the song

• (moved) - removed. Not specific to the song. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:56, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

• The Beviglia sentence belongs in Composition and lyrical interpretation for the cinematic part and noting it as a rock song; try something like, ""Where Are You Tonight? (Journey Through Dark Heat) is a rock track, with a "cinematic" opening." and this should start the section

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• However, the ranking and its quote belongs in Critical reception

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "saying "nobody else" → "saying that "nobody else"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "The song was ranked" → "The track was ranked" and put this in Critical reception

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "Dylan songs, and described as" → "Dylan songs, with the staff describing it as"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "Michael Gray calls" → "Gray calls" which belongs in Critical reception

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "In an interview in March 1978," → "In a March 1978 interview," and this sentence belongs in the opening section instead

• Done. (I think.) BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "before recording the version of" → "before recording the final version of"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "on Street-Legal Dylan told interviewer Barbara Kerr" → "on the album, Dylan told interviewer Barbara Kerr:"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Webster's quote belongs in Composition and lyrical interpretation but "notes this alongside" → "notes Dylan's statement alongside" or something similar

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "Clinton Heylin quotes from" → "Heylin quotes from" and this belongs in Composition and lyrical interpretation

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "to support his own view" → "to support his viewpoint"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:32, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "Dylan made similar comments to those" → "Dylan expressed similar comments to the ones"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 00:56, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

• "conducted around the same time," → "from around the same time,"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "Dylan telling Shelton" → "Dylan telling Shelton that"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "Heylin also identifies lyrical allusions in" → "Lyrical allusions are also identified by Heylin in"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Add release years of the songs in brackets

• Added years. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:47, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

• "Dylan's lyric includes" → "Dylan's lyrics include,"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "run down my leg"." → "run down my leg.""

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "and Johnson's song has" → "and Johnson's song has:"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "Heylin, and Margotin and Guedson," → "Heylin, and Phillipe Margotin and Jean-Michel Guedson,"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "in the lyric" → "in the lyrics,"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "andChristian existentialist Gabriel Marcel" → "and Christian existentialist Gabriel Marcel."

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "Alan Light, quoting the lyric" → "Alan Light, quoting the line" and this belongs in Critical reception

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "by degrees" says" → "by degrees," says"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "Gray notes that the line" → "Gray notes that the line "Horseplay and disease is killing me by degrees"" and this belongs in Composition and lyrical interpretation

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Add release year of Johnson's song in brackets

• Added years. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:47, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

• "achin' heart disease"," → "achin' heart disease,""

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "might reference Johnson's line" → "may reference Johnson's line"

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Add release year of Johnson's song in brackets

• Added years. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:47, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

• "disinterest in truth"." → "disinterest in truth.""

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• "The album Street-Legal was" → "Street-Legal was" and this belongs in the opening section's last para

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Remove target on remixed

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 19:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Mention that the song was featured on the remasters

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:47, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

Personnel

• Retitle to Credits and personnel
• Add at the top of the section: Credits adapted from the Bob Dylan All the Songs: The Story Behind Every Track book (citing the ref directly afterwards instead of having it as the source at the bottom of the section)
• Split with sub-headings instead of sub-sections
• Use {{spaced ndash}} so there is the right space between credits and personnel
• Target vocals to Singing
• Remove the violin credit since it is uncertain, so technically very close to being classified as OR
• Target background vocals to Backing vocalist
• Dennis, Harris and Springs should all be on separate lines but keep the same credit next to each respective person
• Remove wikilink on backing vocals
• Producer should not be capitalised
• Target sound engineering to Audio engineer

• The comments above on the "Personnel" section have been addressed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 18:48, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Live Performances

• Retitle to Live performances
• Move to being inbetween Critical reception and Credits and personnel sections
• "has performed the song" → "has performed "Where Are You Tonight? (Journey Through Dark Heat)""
• "The first was on" → "The first performance was on"
• "and the last was on December 9, 1978," → "the last was on December 9 of that year,"
• "the Carolina Coliseum, Columbia, South Carolina." → "the Carolina Coliseum in Columbia, South Carolina." with the wikilinks

• The comments above on the "Live Performances" section have been addressed. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:10, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

References

• Make sure all of the website ones are archived using the tool

• I've run IABot a couple of times, so I think that all pages that can be archived, are. Let me know if you see any exceptions. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:47, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

• Copyvio score looks fine at 29.1%
• Layout of authors should be consistent throughout the references, with last names followed by first

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:10, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Target Penguin to Penguin Books on ref 2

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:10, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Target McFarland to McFarland & Company on ref 3

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:10, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Change refs 5 and 18 to solely citing Bob Dylan and as publisher

• Not sure if I've made the changes as requested, please check. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:10, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Remove bobdylan.com from both, though keep the publisher. --K. Peake 08:50, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:47, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

• Wikilink Little, Brown Book Group on ref 6
• Wikilink Westminster John Knox Press on ref 7
• Wikilink Cambridge University Press on ref 8
• Target Cassell to Cassell (publisher) on ref 9
• Wikilink Scarecrow Press on ref 10
• Wikilink Rolling Stone on ref 11
• Target Bloomsbury Academic to Bloomsbury Publishing on ref 12
• Wikilink Voyageur Press on ref 14
• Wikilink Fordham Urban Law Journal on ref 15

• Wikilinks added. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:10, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

External links

• Should instead read: Lyrics to "Where Are You Tonight? (Journey Through Dark Heat)" at Bob Dylan's website.

• Done. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:10, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Final comments and verdict

•  On hold as this is quite messy in terms of organization but can be fixed if you respond in time, I believe. --K. Peake 16:53, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• Many thanks for such a detailed and helpful review, Kyle Peake. I'll work through all of the comments above. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:57, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

• BennyOnTheLoose Your welcome and I am definitely glad to hear that! --K. Peake 18:39, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

Having the additional section has definitely helped. I'll work on this, and also on the remaining comments from your review above. Thanks again. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 20:10, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

BennyOnTheLoose Have made some additional comments to you; this article isn't up to the criteria yet but good job, since it's not far! --K. Peake 08:50, 2 August 2020 (UTC)

Kyle Peake I've now implemented almost all of the changes. Hopefully I've not created not too many new issues from the reorganisation and material added. I haven't covered off your point about rewording in the "Interpretation and critical reception" section. Does more need to be done to link the religious imagery of the song to the critics' suggestions about Dylan and Christianity? BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 09:53, 3 August 2020 (UTC)

BennyOnTheLoose You do not need it all to specifically mention the song in every sentence, but make sure to relate to the theme of the album that the song is part of. Also, I have replied to comments by you above; sorry about the delayed response, I kept forgetting due to being focused on other ventures yesterday. --K. Peake 07:03, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

I've moved the content of the Composition and lyrical interpretation section around, and I think the organisation is a bit more more logical there now. I appreciate your patient guidance Kyle Peake, please let me know in due course about what else is needed. Regards, 14:19, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

BennyOnTheLoose I have done a small amount of copy editing but this article looks well-written generally by now, good job! However, the notes still need fixing since a ^ has no text, plus b ^ should say "and is a reworking" instead. --K. Peake 20:51, 5 August 2020 (UTC)

K. Peake thanks for those changes. I've amended the notes. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 06:40, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

BennyOnTheLoose ✓ Pass now, as the notes look fine. --K. Peake 06:50, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

K. Peake I have really appreciated the constructive and supportive feedback. I'll apply the lessons learnt to my future song GA nominations. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 06:57, 6 August 2020 (UTC)

BennyOnTheLoose That is my pleasure, especially make sure that you do not create messy articles and never feel afraid to post on my talk page if you want anything! --K. Peake 07:41, 6 August 2020 (UTC)