Talk:Vasil Ivanovski

POV

Article seems to fail at keeping up any NPOV, in the article itself Ivanovski is labeled as recognized as Macedonian in Macedonia and as a Bulgarian in Bulgaria, such POV tags like "Macedo-Bulgars" disrupt any attempts of neutrality, and reverts based on editor bias is very problematic and should be fixed. Gurther (talk) 13:10, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Gurther, it is high time you realized that ethnicity is a matter of self-awareness and it sometimes changes in the course of one's life. This is particularly characteristic of many representatives of the Macedonian nation formed mainly in the middle of the 20th century. A number of its representatives changed their national identity in the first half of the 20th century. There are those who do it even twice like Venko Markovski. He himself admits that he changed his ethnic self-awarness from Bulgarian to Macedonian, and then returned back to his original identity. In this regard, I do not see a problem with the categorization of such individuals on the basis of identity being twofold, as it was in their lives: as Bulgarians and as Macedonians. I don't understand what's bothering you. Jingiby (talk) 08:03, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Jingiby, the idea that they should be labeled as "Bulgarians" purely because of some old declarations is idiotic, back then the concept of an identity was much more diffrent then it is today, i think Keith Brown explained it well in one of his interviews, which he stated :

"when they call themselves Bulgarian, they’re not thinking of themselves as having loyalty to Sofia, to the Bulgarian state. they're using it to refer to themselves by religion or by language at a time when Bulgarian for them doesn't mean nationality Bulgarian and loyal to Sofia and as soon as it begins to mean that, and as soon as they become aware that people are taking their statement of being Bulgarian as meaning being loyal to Sofia, they resist it and they start changing the way they call themselves"

this explains to us why a lot of them changed their ethnicity after WW2, because now with a Macedonian state (SR Macedonia) they could finally declare themselves as Macedonians in a proper ethnic term, also if we look at the sources and the article itself we can see how Vasil has held a pro-Macedonian view pretty much his entire life, these beliefs that just because they declared themselves something is nonsense, how are we aware of how ethnic group ideas were treated back then? we aren't, this is purely WP:OR coming from you and im somewhat disapointed with how you attempt to justify unproper terms to people, i expected someone who has been working with Wikipedia for 15+ years would know better. Gurther (talk) 09:18, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Gurhther, Wikipedia is not based on a your opinion. Jingiby (talk) 09:33, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Jingiby, Neither is it based off yours, yet here you are promoting it. Gurther (talk) 10:59, 6 May 2023 (UTC)