Talk:U.S. Route 30 in Pennsylvania

Pittsburgh area

Ran along Penn Avenue at 5th Avenue [1], so IT USED THE BRIDGE AT THE POINT (Manchester Bridge). But that bridge was removed in 1907, and only replaced in 1915. That photo is from 1915. [2] Grant Boulevard (Bigelow Boulevard) ran to 7th Avenue, and was extended to Webster Avenue in 1912. [3] 7th and Webster Avenues both ran only to Grant Avenue. Maybe it turned north from Grant or Webster Avenue onto 6th Street and then turned west on Penn Avenue? No real way to know without more sources. THIS IS WRONG - IT WAS ANOTHER INTERSECTION OF PENN AND FIFTH!

In 1929 it definitely used the new Point Bridge. [4] That bridge had opened in 1927, at which time the old one was demolished.

1930 Penndot map shows Steubenville Pike - somehow through Crafton (probably Steuben Street - Crafton Avenue - Station Street - Bradford Avenue - Crafton Boulevard) - Mansfield Avenue (Noblestown Road) - South Main Street - West Carson Street - Point Bridge - Water Street - Liberty Avenue - 2nd Avenue - Boulevard of the Allies - Forbes Street - Beeler Street - Wilkins Avenue - Dallas Avenue - Penn Avenue

Bridge over South Fork Montour Run at Imperial is dated 1928

main route shown from Beaver Falls is Lincoln Avenue - California Avenue - Chateau Street - Western Avenue - maybe Allegheny Avenue - Galveston Avenue (east of Art Rooney Avenue?) to the Point

Pittsburgh to Ohio

May have used Allegheny Avenue to California Avenue rather than Chateau Street? [5] could be useful. Shows that Brighton Road in Ben Avon was still the main road in 1926!

By 1906 present Route 65 existed:

• probably used Brighton Road from Avalon? Division Avenue/Church Avenue was not yet there in 1906, but it looks like it was in 1908? Not the section over Camp Horne Road yet though - 1906 shows a streetcar line there but no road (same at the others), and 1908 shows nothing. [6] says Brighton Road over Spruce Creek in Ben Avon, so no Division Avenue/Church Avenue there, at least originally.
• Brighton Road (at Dickson Avenue) to Brighton Road (at Belle Rivere Court) in Ben Avon
• probably used Brighton Road and Beaver Road in between?
• Western Avenue (at Herron Avenue) in Ben Avon to Beaver Street (at River Road) in Haysville (crossed the railroad just north of Toms Run Road and just south of Kilbuck Street - bricked 1916)
• not at all at least north to and through Ambridge (USGS shows details of old road there)

Likely route from USGS north from Ambridge:

• Beaver Road - then totally redone into Baden - State Street - 65 - West State Street - 65 - 3rd Avenue - 65 - crossed the railroad north of 3rd Street Extension - Railroad Street - crossed again in East Rochester (OR used West 6th Avenue - 5th Street - Spruce Avenue) - Case Street - Kossuth Street or Pinney Street - Brighton Avenue - Madison Street - Bridge Street - 3rd Street? - somehow to Tuscarawas Road

Information from The Lincoln Highway Pennsylvania Traveler's Guide 2nd Edition

Page numbers are in (parentheses). Notes not in the book are in [brackets].

I have scans of the pages from Trenton to Philly.

Philadelphia to Downingtown

US 30 and US 30 Business

• From Philly, most direct route "with longest tradition" was Market Street - Lancaster Avenue; popular alternate was one-way pair of Walnut and Chestnut; another was through Fairmount Park - easier with Ben Franklin Parkway opening in 1920 (46-47)
• Walnut-Chestnut to Cobbs Creek Parkway - 63rd Street - never an official route (49-50)
• PRR bought Lancaster Pike from 52nd Street west to Paoli for $20,000 in 1876 to prevent use by competing streetcar lines - tolls collected until 1917, when the State Highway Department bought it for $165,000 (50-51)
• tollgate near Llanalew Road - from 1914 Blue Book 60 cents to Paoli, with coupons for 4 tollgates along the way (55)
• Old Lancaster Road through Devon, bypassed by 1926 to avoid railroad crossings (58-59)
• Another stretch of Old Lancaster Road west of Devon (60)
• King Road - former underpass at Green Tree Station [just west of Duffryn Avenue?] - Old Lancaster Road - Old Lincoln Highway - Old Lancaster Road - closed underpass [at Morehall Road] - relocated in 1930s (62-64)
• 1921 concrete arch bridge (replaced 1802 stone bridge) over east branch of Brandywine Creek on short US 322 concurrency (73)

Downingtown to Lancaster

US 30 Business, US 30 and Route 462

• short old alignment west of Route 82 (79)
• short old alignment east of Route 41, crossing in the middle (85)
• there were four Lancaster Pike tollgates west of Kinzer - 2, 4, 7.5 and 10.5 miles, last at Witmer Bridge in Lancaster (89)
• 1932 concrete bridge over the Conestoga River replaced 1799-1800 Witmer's Bridge, just west of Route 340, originally a toll bridge but eventually went bankrupt (105)
• King Street (now one-way east) in downtown Lancaster (107)

tolls were abolished September 5, 1918 "near Lancaster" - where exactly? (9)

Lancaster to York

Route 462

• King Street and Columbia Avenue in downtown Lancaster (109)
• old road just to south west of Conestoga Creek (112)
• tollgates - four between Lancaster and Columbia for 25 cents total, first one just west of Lancaster, 18 cents Columbia to York, 30 cents York to New Oxford (113)
• just west of Prospect Road, "what looks like an old road section" forks to the north to a fence and emerges behind the Prospect Diner, but was actually the Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad from 1834 to 1840, after which the Columbia plane was bypassed [can't find this, unless it's Minute Drive, but that's an old road alignment! [7] [8]] (114-115)
• small 1938 bridge over creek about 1/2 mi east of Mountsville has wide south shoulder - once had an interurban (114-115)
• 5th Street - Chestnut Street in Columbia [old bridge access was via jog at 2nd Street] (119)
• current Susquehanna River bridge dedicated Armistice Day, November 11, 1930, replacing 1897 railroad-road bridge, older 1863 1832 1812 (120-121)

York to Gettysburg

Route 462, US 30

• York-Gettysburg Turnpike tolled until 1918 - tollgates in West Manchester, Jackson, Paradise and Hamilton Townships (137)
• Market Street in York (138)
• [short old alignment to the south, mostly gone, at Farmers [9] [10]]

Gettysburg to Chambersburg

US 30

• long old alignment through Cashtown; tollgate was once just east of Cashtown Inn, another near summit of Mount Newman ("Toll Gate No. 1, Chambersburg Turnpike Road Co."), crosses to north just before west end (164-167)
• tollgate 2 of the Gettysburg-Chambersburg Pike was at Route 997 south (172)
• old alignment to north through Fayetteville (172-173)
• Lincoln Way in Chambersburg (175)

Chambersburg to Bedford

US 30

• Chambersburg-Bedford Turnpike was tolled from 1818 to summer 1913; tollgate #2 was somewhere west of St. Thomas (180)
• old road through Fort Loudon (181)
• tollgate # 3 was east of Conocheague Creek West Branch on old road in Fort Loudon (181)
• tollgate # 4 is second building to right after crossing Route 75 (182)
• old alignment in McConnellsburg, partly cut with original concrete - older tighter curve bypassed 1924 by "horseshoe curve" (186-187)
• slight realignment at road cut on east side of Sideling Hill (191)
• remnant of Forbes Road behind Old Mountain House (193)
• Ray's Hill was once the site of a tollgate (193)
• old alignment on Ray's Hill now cut by new Turnpike (193-196)
• old alignments at Juniata Crossings Bridge - original 1818 covered bridge was south of current bridge, swept away by flood in 1845 or 1889 and rebuilt, newer part built as 1 lane rather than 2 because traffic on turnpikes had declined, replaced by concrete bridge in 1934, old bridge swept away St. Patrick's Day flood 1936 (200-202)
• Travelers Rest Road west of Juniata Crossings is old Lincoln Highway (204)
• Zion Road is old road (204)
• old road in Everett (205-206)
• old road up Mount Dallas from west end of US 30 Business - crossed railroad tracks, rerouted below tracks ca. 1913 when new railroad bridge was built (RR bridge torn town ca. 1990) (206)
• various old alignments - Mt. Dallas Road and Williams Road/Hospital Drive (206-207)
• old road at Defibaugh Tavern at curve to left, further west old road remnants on right, now driveways (207-209)
• Riverview Road is old road just west of Turnpike bridge - used to cross the Juniata on a stone bridge - there was a tollhouse at the west end of the bridge for many years (209)
• old road in Bedford - Pitt Street (211)

Bedford to Ligonier

US 30

• old road through Wolfsburg - bridge out (218)
• old road on east slope of Tull's Hill (220)
• old road on west slope of Tull's Hill, and beyond went north then south of the present (1947) cuts, with a 1917 bridge (223-224)
• old road west of Schellsburg with an even old remnant next to it (226)
• through truss bridge over Shawnee Creek (Shawnee Branch of Juniata River) until 1930 (227-228)
• old Forbes Road went straight up hill near Grand View (228)
• old road near Lambertsville and Stoystown - partly gone because of strip mine - crossed Stony Creek on Strasser Road, then west on Forbes Road and Walnut Avenue and Main Street through Stoystown; former Bedford-Stoystown Turnpike tollgate remains on climb out of town (238-241)
• old road at Jennerstown - Klines Mill Road and Sliding Rock Road and then crosses US 30 twice (246)
• old road just past Route 381 and through Ligonier on Main Street (249-251)

Ligonier to Pittsburgh

US 30, Route 8 and Route 380

• Main Street and Old Lincoln Highway west from Ligonier, moved south to current westbound lanes in 1928, eastbound lanes built on Ligonier Valley Railroad roadbed after it stopped running in August 1952 - old road now used for driveways near Millbank (254-257)
• further west, from Long Bridge to Kingston, the railroad is now westbound (259-260)
• Long Bridge Road is old highway - old bridge north of current one (262)
• Lincoln Highway cut through Arnold Palmer Regional Airport until WPA funds expanded it in 1935 - old route is Main Street - Arnold Palmer Drive (realigned near Route 981) - gated entrance to airport (260-261)
• old alignment returns west of airport (264)
• old road to north west of airport, partly an overgrown driveway, bypassed 1951 - originally north, later south at fork in Denison (265-266)
• old alignment to north at Lewis Road, where the road cut north then back south with a "dead man's curve" or "Head's curve", descends to a bridge west of Lewis Road - the curve was beyond (266-267)
• Hough Avenue and Old Route 30 - older alignment and culvert remnants just to north at Slate Run Road (267-268)
• US 30 Business in Greensburg - Toll Gate Apartments are named after old tollgate east of town - Pittsburgh Street is original (268-270)
• Old Toll Gate Road west of Greensburg - historical marker for former tollhouse on Greensburg-Pittsburgh Turnpike (271-272)
• [short old road south of Jeannette]
• old road through Adamsburg bypassed 1938 due to Turnpike opening in 1940; a newer bypass planned west to Route 48 in late 1960s and early 1970s, running to south, crossing at Circleville, and running to north to Route 48 - successfully opposed by residents; Old Trail Road was old Greensburg-Pittsburgh Turnpike, but not clear if it was old Lincoln Highway; old road merges back in at Parkway Drive (274-275)
• Circleville to East McKeesport widened to 4 lanes in 1937 (280)
• Lincoln Way heads south into McKeesport, never Lincoln Highway; McKeesport auto club sponsored connection between Lincoln Highway and National Road in 1924 with markers through town; city directory in 1927 reported "the Chamber of Commerce is popularizing the short route between Irwin and Pittsburgh through the scenic Monongahela Valley over the White Oak Level [Lincoln Way] and Long Run Roads via McKeesport, thence through Dravosburg and Hays... saving six miles, avoiding traffic congestion, fifteen mile speed limit signs, and dangerous grades." still campaigning for bypass through McKeesport as late as 1939 (280-281)
• [doesn't mention Crown Road and Mack Road west of Stewartsville]
• Westinghouse Bridge opened 1932, elminated 3.4 miles, shortening it by 3/4 mi, saved about 30 minutes (286-290)
• Greensburg Pike, including piece south of US 30, is old road into Turtle Creek; charp bend originally led onto bridge - new bridge dedicated December 1925; Penn Avenue - Braddock Avenue - Electric Avenue (cut) - eastbound exit from US 30 (286-288)
• Ardmore Boulevard carved next to trolley just before the Lincoln Highway came (290-291)
• statue of Lincoln at merge with Penn Highway (293-294)
• Penn Avenue and 5th Avenue near East Liberty was site of experimental marker - February 25, 1915 Pittsburgh Press article - DPW Director Robert Swan "announced that 25 of the markers will be placed at intervals along the route... Each marker will extend nine feet above the ground. It will be made of a concrete composed of granite chips and cement." - Art Commission protested, but Special Committee on Good Roads said the LHA had called it "the most attractive on the route between New York and San Francisco" - competition held anyway with 9 entries submitted - original design erected at Penn and Fifth, in time for Lincoln Highway caravan, filming a movie along the highway - arrived late on June 2, 1915 - Raymond Marlier got $50 for his winning design later that month - script L hanging from a pole - not likely it was ever produced (296-297)
• Penn Avenue - Highland Avenue - Baum Boulevard - Craig Street - Bigelow Boulevard (originally Grant Boulevard - extension of Grant Street) (298-300)
• doesn't give original route downtown - says to use Sixth Avenue - Liberty Avenue (301)
• bypass ran Dallas Avenue - Wilkins Avenue - Forbes Avenue - Boulevard of the Allies (opened October 1923 for $1.6 million per mile) - doesn't give route downtown (says Seventh Avenue - Liberty Avenue) (302-303)

Pittsburgh to East Liverpool

• Manchester Bridge was first, then Point Bridge from 1927 to 1953 (306)
• original route along Ohio River followed Great Path, old Indian trail; very congested as it ran through small towns, not a state highway so badly maintained, often foggy east of Beaver and dirt west of Beaver; regularly mentioned in LHA road reports in the early 1920s; 1922 and 1923 say dirt part and alternate through Clinton was "in bad shape" - detour recommended via East Palestine to Canton - "much longer but paved"; 1924 and 1925 also recommends using south side of river through McKees Rocks and Aliquippa to Rochester, then following the "well-marked" detour; July 1926 report says 29 mi to Rochester were "paved city streets, mostly poor", while the rest of the state was well-paved - official alternate marked through McKees Rocks, Neville Island, Coraopolis and Monaca; work began on southern route in mid-1920s, officially changed December 2, 1927, cutting 13 miles (305-307)
• Note: map in the book, but nothing in the text, shows 1913 route Rochester-Beaver Falls-Darlington-East Palestine-Canton [very roughly 18-588-51-14] (304-305)

Original route

• Union Bridge replaced in 1910s by Manchester Bridge [doesn't mention that it wasn't there until 1915] - Galveston Avenue - Western Avenue - Chateau Street - California Avenue - Jack's Run Bridge (1924, replaced earlier bridge) - Lincoln Avenue (named before the highway) - California - Brighton Road (has some yellow brick) - Ohio River Boulevard - Brighton Road (bypassed 1930 by Forest Avenue Bridge) - Beaver Avenue - Ohio River Boulevard - other side of railroad near I-79 (yellow brick) - Ohio River Boulevard - Beaver Road (changed in Sewickley to Lincoln Highway by January 1916 ordinance, and Osborne, Edgeworth and Leetsdale soon did the same) - 1841 stone bridge widened 1918 over Little Sewickley Creek just before leaving Edgeworth - 1827 stone bridge widened 1919 (as Allegheny Beaver Road) over Big Sewickley Creek along brick section in Leetsdale - Merchant Street - 14th Street - Duss Avenue (listed as "very poor dirt road" from Ambridge to Baden in 1914 Blue Book) - State Street - Ohio River Boulevard - Beaver Road [State/1st] - Ohio River Boulevard - 3rd Avenue - crossed railroad onto Railroad Street, then called Sycamore Street - New York Avenue - Brighton Avenue - Madison Street over Bridgewater-Rochester Bridge (307-315)
• Bridge Street - 3rd Street - Buffalo Street - 4th Street - Tuscarawas Road (part of the Great Path via Tuscarawas, Ohio (now Bolivar)) - Smith's Ferry Road (old stone bridge over Upper Dry Run) - Liberty Avenue - Main Street - Route 68 - Route 39 into East Liverpool (315-318)

West Virginia route

• Carson Street - Main Street - Route 60 [says to follow Route 60 through Crafton, but I'm pretty sure that's wrong] (318-319)
• Old Steubenville Pike at I-79 (319)
• Old Steubenville Pike from US 22/30 to US 30 - old road at Mahoney Road [what about where it meets US 30? is Steuben Street the old Lincoln?] (320-321)
• old road through Imperial - Church Road/Main Street - might not be old Lincoln [probably isn't] (321-322)
• old road into Chester - Carolina Avenue - 3rd Street - Virginia Avenue - 1st Street - 1897 East Liverpool-Chester Bridge (acquired by state in 1938 and made free, closed 1970, new bridge opened 1977 - ramps finished 1981 (huh?) - traffic used bridge at Newell until either 1977 or 1981) (329-330)

Legislative Route numbers

Lincoln Highway

• 243 OH-Smiths Ferry
• 278 Smiths Ferry-Beaver
• 76 Beaver-Rochester
• 641 Rochester-county line (Ohio River Boulevard)
• 652 county line-Pittsburgh (Ohio River Boulevard)
• 538 WV-south of Imperial
• 257 south of Imperial-Pittsburgh
• 228 Pittsburgh (Bigelow-Baum)
• 120 Pittsburgh-Greensburg (Allies)
• 119 Greensburg-Napier
• 49 Napier-Bedford
• 39 Bedford-McConnellsburg
• 37 McConnellsburg-Chambersburg
• 43 Chambersburg-Gettysburg
• 126 Gettysburg-York
• 128 York-Lancaster
• 142 Lancaster-Witmer's Bridge
• 215 Witmer's Bridge-Gap
• 142 Gap-Philadelphia
• 67010 Lancaster Avenue
• 67009 City Line Avenue and Roosevelt Boulevard (also 67058? that's probably the Roosevelt Expressway only? or is that also 67009?)
• 281 Philadelphia-NJ (Lower Trenton Bridge)

Present US 30

• LR 538, West Virginia to US 22
• LR 257 Parallel and LR 257, US 22 to PA 60
• LR 765, PA 60 to PA 121
• LR 766, PA 121 to I-279
• LR 764, I-279 to PA 885
• LR 763, PA 885 to PA 8
• LR 120, PA 8 to Greensburg
• LR 787, around Greensburg
• LR 119, Greensburg to Bedford
• LR 1064, around Bedford
• LR 39, Bedford to Everett
• LR 1064, around Everett
• LR 39, Everett to McConnellsburg
• LR 1054, around McConnellsburg
• LR 37, McConnellsburg to US 11 south in Chambersburg
• LR 28094, eastbound through Chambersburg
• LR 43, US 11 south to US 15 Business in Gettysburg
• LR 126, US 15 Business to PA 462
• LR 1070, PA 462 to SR 4001
• LR 66041, SR 4001 to PA 181
• LR 1069, PA 181 to SR 4005
• LR 792, SR 4005 to PA 283
• LR 138 Spur E, PA 283 to SR 4011
• LR 442 Spur E, SR 4011 to PA 501
• LR 36182, PA 501 to PA 272
• LR 36183, PA 272 to PA 462
• LR 215, PA 462 to PA 897
• LR 142, PA 897 to east of PA 10
• LR 1004, east of PA 10 to east of PA 113
• new, east of PA 113 to US 202
• LR 142, US 202 to Philadelphia
• ? through Philadelphia

1910s details

Beaver 1916

• PA 68 - Main Street - Liberty Avenue - Smiths Ferry Road - Tuscarawas Road - 4th Street - Buffalo Street - 3rd Street - Bridge Street - Brighton Avenue - Pinney Street - leaves state highway there

Somerset 1915

• Sliding Rock Road - Klines Mill Road
• Main Street - Willow Avenue - Forbes Road - Strasser Road - Old Lincoln Highway

Fulton 1912

• Lincoln Way

Franklin 1914

• Main Street
• Main Street

Adams 1916

• Old Route 30

York 1915

• small jog near I-83

Lancaster 1912

• Bridge Street - 2nd Street - Walnut Street - 3rd Street - Locust Street ??
• Old Highway

Chester 1923

• Old Lincoln Highway, crossed railroad at a right angle
• Morehall Road - Old Lancaster Road - Old Lincoln Highway - Old Lancaster Road - Duffryn Avenue - King Road
• Cassatt Avenue - road alongside railroad - Old Lancaster Road

Delaware 1923

• nothing

Montgomery 1923

• nothing

Exit list

Greensburg

County	Municipality	SR	Destinations	Notes
Westmoreland	Hempfield Township	8004	Pittsburgh Street (State Route 3026)	eastbound exit and westbound entrance
	Greensburg	8018	Pennsylvania Route 136 - West Newton (State Route 3034)
	Southwest Greensburg	8009	U.S. Route 119 to Interstate 70 - Connellsville; Blairsville (Pennsylvania Route 819; Pennsylvania Route 66 Business)
	Hempfield Township		Cedar Street
		8006	Greensburg; Mt. Pleasant
		8064	Pennsylvania Route 130 - Pleasant Unity; Pittsburgh Street	eastbound exit and westbound entrance
		8008	Greensburg Business District (State Route 3030)	westbound exit and eastbound entrance

Everett

County	Municipality	SR	Destinations	Notes
Bedford	Everett	8014	U.S. Route 30 Business to Pennsylvania Route 26 south - Everett (State Route 1044)	eastbound exit and westbound entrance
	West Providence Township	8004	to Pennsylvania Route 26 north; to Pennsylvania Route 36 north - Huntingdon; Raystown Lake; Altoona (State Route 1007)

York-Lancaster

County	Municipality	SR	Destinations	Notes
York	West Manchester Township	8002	Pennsylvania Route 462 east - York	westbound exit and eastbound entrance
		8004	Pennsylvania Route 74 - West York; Dover
	gap in freeway
	Springettsbury Township	8006	East York; Memory Lane (State Route 2005)	no westbound exit
		8008	Pennsylvania Route 24 - Mt. Zion Road
	Hellam Township	8010	to Pennsylvania Route 462 - Hallam (State Route 1014)
		8012	to Pennsylvania Route 462 - Wrightsville (State Route 1016)
		Wright's Ferry Bridge (Susquehanna River)
Lancaster	Columbia
		8002	Pennsylvania Route 441 - Columbia; Marietta
	West Hempfield Township	8004	Prospect Road (State Route 4005)
		8006	Mountville (State Route 3017)
	East Hempfield Township	8008	Centerville Road - Centerville (State Route 4057)
		8010	Pennsylvania Route 741 - Millersville; Rohrerstown
	Manheim Township	8012	Harrisburg Pike (State Route 4020)
		8014	Pennsylvania Route 72 - Manheim Pike	eastbound exit and westbound entrance
		8016 8018	Pennsylvania Route 283 west - Harrisburg; Downtown Lancaster (State Route 4011; State Route 4042)
		8018 8020 8040	Pennsylvania Route 501; Pennsylvania Route 272 north; U.S. Route 222 south - Lititz Pike; Oregon Pike; Fruitville Pike (State Route 4011; State Route 4042)	US 222 joins eastbound and leaves westbound
		8022	U.S. Route 222 north to Interstate 76 - Ephrata; Reading	US 222 joins westbound and leaves eastbound
		8024	Pennsylvania Route 23 east - New Holland Avenue; New Holland Pike (State Route 1063)	PA 23 joins eastbound and leaves westbound
	East Lampeter Township	8025	Pennsylvania Route 23 west - Walnut Street	PA 23 joins westbound and leaves eastbound
		8026	Greenfield Road (State Route 1001)
		8028	Pennsylvania Route 340 - Old Philadelphia Pike	no westbound exit
		8044	Pennsylvania Route 462 west - Lincoln Highway	eastbound exit and westbound entrance

Schizoid Article?

It's confusing for a US30 article to refer to the road frequently as Lincoln Highway. Yes the Lincoln Highway needs to be mentioned, but sentences shouldn't start with it. The worst bit is "The Lincoln Highway came into the Pittsburgh area along the old Pittsburgh and Greensburg Turnpike (now U.S. Route 30)...".--J Clear 20:01, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I never finished the changeover. --SPUI (T - C) 07:55, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

PA Route 1

PA Route 1 (1920s) redirects here, but the text doesn't mention that at all. Just one graphic of the sign.--J Clear 20:01, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Paradise Township

I think Rt. 30 goes through Paradise Township, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, but this is not mentioned in the chart in the article. It certainly goes through the towns of Paradise, Vintage, and Kinzers, which I think are in Paradise Township, but I am not sure exactly where the township line lies. Jstuby (talk) 17:32, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Paradise, Leaman Place, Williamstown, and Kinzer are all in Paradise Township on Rt. 30. See this map. Jstuby (talk) 20:35, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

You're right, it does pass through Paradise Township. However, it does not intersect another state highway, so we don't mention it in the junction list. If we included every township and community that a highway passes through regardless of intersections, the junction list would be far too long to be of any use to our readers. –Fredddie™ 22:58, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

I didn't understand that about the table. No problem. Jstuby (talk) 19:48, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Prose length

My primary objection is with the route description section. While it may be a 333-mile (536 km) highway, the prose there is way too long and detailed. Interstate 75 in Michigan is 392 miles (631 km), and its RD is roughly a quarter of the length. The RD there is also more digestible by running in concise subsections of two or three paragraphs with photos to break up any "wall of text" phenomenon. While this article has subsections, the last paragraph of the first subsection is longer than some of I-75's subsections. The last subsection is longer by word count than I-75's entire RD.

The history section is also on the long side. One of its subsections has been tagged as such for 12 years. In short, each section needs to be trimmed and summarized down by at least half, if not more. Imzadi 1979 → 02:31, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

The reason for the long route description is there is a lot of detail in the 333 miles of US 30 in Pennsylvania, especially considering it passes through both Pittsburgh and Philadelphia. Much of the detail in the route description is through those two areas where there is a lot happening along the route. There is less detail in rural areas. When I rewrote this route description, my rule of thumb was one paragraph per county, but in some of the more populated counties, multiple paragraphs were needed. I mentioned intersections with numbered roads, interchanges, changes in lane configuration/divided highway, some of this may be why the route description became so long. I did leave out mentions of every township it passes through for the sake of not making the article even longer. As for the history, there is excess detail about the Lincoln Highway in Pittsburgh yet there is also missing information, that section hasn’t been rewritten yet. Any feedback on how to improve the route description to be less detailed by cutting out excessive detail would be appreciated. Dough4872 02:47, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

Let me be crystal clear then: it's so long that no one will read it from start to finish. It is a giant wall of text. The paragraphs are too long. As I said, some of the subsections are longer than I-75's entire RD, and one paragraph is so long it fills my entire screen. First off, the RD shouldn't repeat all of the information in the junction list, or else why would wee bother with that table. So that alone gives you the option of culling text. Remember, good RDs scale up and down on the level of detail: longer highways should actually be less detailed to keep the size comfortable, while shorter ones can go into a bit greater depth.

As for the history, maybe it needs to be summarized more and content spun out into a separate Lincoln Highway in Pennsylvania article. Imzadi 1979 → 02:58, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

"Any feedback on how to improve the route description to be less detailed by cutting out excessive detail would be appreciated." Yes. Nuke it and try again.

I quickly glanced at this article on my phone last night and I got bored scrolling. Our job as editors is to inform our readers, not bore them to death. You may have missed it, but an IP left us some feedback on the Ohio article. It's just as relevant here. –Fredddie™ 16:51, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

• I'll admit it is quite long. Maybe we need stricter guidelines for RD length? Needforspeed888 (talk) 14:54, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

I don’t know what else to remove from the Route description. In order to cut in in half, I’m gonna have to eliminate key towns and junctions, which would leave the section lacking. Dough4872 03:58, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

Do we need to split it into subarticles? —ADavidB 04:20, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

@Adavidb: No, it is long practice to keep all information about a road (RD, History, junctions) in a single article. Needforspeed888 (talk) 04:29, 5 May 2022 (UTC)

I agree it’s hard to say what should and shouldn’t be in, but my first inclination would be to use U.S. Route 30 in Iowa as a model for the RD on this page. The Iowa segment is almost identical in length to PA.

Unsourced parts

@Dough4872: this is the part where you provide the direct support for the given text that you found in the sources before removing the CN tags. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:17, 10 October 2022 (UTC)

Failed verification claim

@Dough4872: those failed verification for me, where are you seeing the claims in the source? Particularly the claims about forests, suburbs, etc? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 15:25, 10 October 2022 (UTC)