Talk:Transgender

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 14 November 2024

I think it might be a good idea to add a source to the sentence that the word transgenderism was once considered acceptable. I found this article when looking it up: "https://juliaserano.medium.com/the-history-of-the-word-transgenderism-55fd9bbf65cc". Istilldontlikemyusername (talk) 20:23, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 21:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Trans § Requested move 15 November 2024

 You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Trans § Requested move 15 November 2024. Please join the move discussion for a primary redirect to this article currently in progress. Raladic (talk) 23:43, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Transgender & Transsexual

This question is not about people, but about terminology. Please don't flame me. I've read both articles and a goodly chunk of the archives. Maybe I missed it, but I can't find RS that really explains the difference between terms "transsexual" and "transgender" or makes a definite statement that they are the same. I find lots of opinions, but no sourcing. As a follow-on, are there particular researchers who have made a study of how use of the terms has changed over time? Bitten Peach (talk) 21:00, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Bitten Peach: Flame! Haha, just kidding. :)

Are you looking for new sources to add to the article, or sources for your own research? If the latter, I would recommend that you check out the terminology section on this article and see if there are any relevant sources there - I seem to recall finding relevant information to your query a month or two ago when I was checking some sources for this article. If the former, let me know, and perhaps I can help your search. In either case, the sources at the bottom of the article, especially the academic sources (some of the sources in "References" are sorted by type and some are not), may help you in your search. Perhaps you could check out the references in the linked sources themselves. Have a good day!

JuxtaposedJacob (talk) | :) | he/him | 22:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

https://glaad.org/reference/trans-terms

Scroll down to "Transsexual"

JuxtaposedJacob (talk) | :) | he/him | 22:05, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

more academic sources, found with google scholar:

https://quadernsdepsicologia.cat/article/view/v20-n3-aguirre

(spanish website but english pdf)

https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=ST2XEAAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=transgender+transsexual+terminology&ots=bO_jhuXH4Y&sig=Ks_R3H1MT8KLWTXce-YqrLaNZZY#v=onepage&q=transgender%20transsexual%20terminology&f=false

https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=A1emBgAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PA173&dq=transgender+transsexual+terminology&ots=qyJWq9B-6F&sig=BJSEGZjO2N6TwInE42rhWHlEFec#v=onepage&q=transgender%20transsexual%20terminology&f=false

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-29093-1_4 JuxtaposedJacob (talk) | :) | he/him | 22:10, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

You're right, there doesn't seem to be an exhaustive etymological analysis of the differing word uses, at least based on my cursory search. That's unfortunate.

JuxtaposedJacob (talk) | :) | he/him | 22:11, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the sources. At least it's someplace to start. And to answer the early q, it's for personal research but I'd hoped to improve the article when/if I found something that really talked to the terminology. Bitten Peach (talk) 22:24, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

LatAm section

This phrase "They are framed as something entirely separate from transgender women, who possess the same gender identity of people assigned female at birth" does not make sense, and I wonder that's really what the author even hinted at saying that. I guess it could be reworded. But does this mean they are framed as cis women or trans men? Because "the same gender identity of people assigned female at birth" is not clear. Or did this try to explain what is a trans woman? Then you can just replace female with male, but would this contextualization be necessary? LIrala (talk) 01:50, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

@JuxtaposedJacob hi can you take a look? LIrala (talk) 01:19, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

"who possess the same gender identity as people assigned female at birth" is the confusing part - how does my reword look? I just removed the confusing clause, as anything else would have required unsourced generalizations JuxtaposedJacob (talk) | :) | he/him | 06:53, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 December 2024

Add this to Transgender#Transgender: The term "trans*" (with an asterisk) emerged in the 1990s as an inclusive term used to encompass a wide range of non-cisgender identities. The asterisk serves as a wildcard, indicating the inclusion of various identities beyond just transgender and transsexual, such as gender-fluid or agender. The use of the asterisk in "trans*" has been debated, either arguing that it adds unnecessary complexity or that enhances inclusivity by explicitly recognizing non-normative gender identities.

Sources to use (since they are many, only use the most reliable and highly reputable ones):

1. Steinmetz, Katy (2018-04-03). "The OED Just Added the Word 'Trans*.' Here's What It Means". TIME. Retrieved 2024-12-05.
2. "Why We Used Trans* and Why We Don't Anymore -". transstudent.org. Retrieved 2024-12-05.
3. "Why do you include an asterisk in Trans*? » The Safe Zone Project". The Safe Zone Project. Retrieved 2024-12-05.
4. Middleton, Josh (2014-07-16). "QUEERSTIONS: What Does it Mean When There is an Asterisk After the Word "Trans?"". Philadelphia Magazine. Retrieved 2024-12-05.
5. "What does the asterisk in "trans*" stand for? - ❤ It's Pronounced Metrosexual". It's Pronounced Metrosexual. Retrieved 2024-12-05.
6. Levenson, Claire (2018-10-15). "Transition des jeunes trans*, quand science et militants divergent". Slate.fr (in French). Retrieved 2024-12-05.
7. Prieur, Cha (2019-12-16). "Les violences envers les personnes trans* à l'université. Des conséquences sur la santé mentale aux pistes pour s'en sortir". Genre, sexualité & société (in French) (22). doi:10.4000/gss.5726. ISSN 2104-3736.
8. Delage, Pauline; Lieber, Marylène; Chetcuti-Osorovitz, Natacha (2019-07-18). "Lutter contre les violences de genre. Des mouvements féministes à leur institutionnalisation:Introduction". Cahiers du Genre (in French). 66 (1): 5–16. doi:10.3917/cdge.066.0005. ISSN 1298-6046.
9. Iazzetti, Brume Dezembro (2022-01-01). "Políticas institucionais voltadas à população trans* no ensino superior brasileiro e alguns de seus limites e desafios". Cultura, Política, Sexualidade e Gênero na América Latina.
10. Guerrero McManus, Siobhan (2024). "Los estudios trans en México". Inter disciplina (in Spanish). 12 (32): 11–24. doi:10.22201/ceiich.24485705e.2024.32.86915. ISSN 2448-5705.
11. Radi, Blas (2020). Epistemología del asterisco: una introducción sinuosa a la epistemología trans. Universidad Nacional de Rosario. ISBN 978-987-702-385-5.
12. JONES, Nash. Bridging the gap-trans*: What does the asterisk mean and why is it used. PDX Q Center, 2013.
13. Garvin, P. (2019). What’s the asterisk in “trans*” mean and why do some find it offensive?”. The LGBTQ+ Experiment, 18.
14. Lewis, Nancy M. (2019-01-01). "Open to Possibilities: Gender Variability and the Importance of the Asterisk". Resources for Gender and Women's Studies: A Feminist Review. 40 (1): 7–8.
15. Tompkins, Avery (2014-05-01). "Asterisk". TSQ: Transgender Studies Quarterly. 1 (1–2): 26–27. doi:10.1215/23289252-2399497. ISSN 2328-9252. LIrala (talk) 02:17, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Hey @LIrala,

Could you choose some of the best sources and add them as inline citations?

If you don't get to it, I can, but you may be more familiar with the source material.

Thanks!

JuxtaposedJacob (talk) | :) | he/him | 05:05, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

@JuxtaposedJacob I think 1, 11, 15, and 14 are the best sources and should be there. I guess that's a reasonable number and they cover what the sentences are saying. LIrala (talk) 05:15, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

I could not read number 11 (foreign language) or 14 (limited access), but after changing the paragraph headings, etc. for more logical flow (diff) and adding bullets to the relevant paragraph (diff), I made your edit, with the following modifications:

-converted quotation marks to italics

-added clause about the transgender umbrella after agender to clarify how trans* includes other identities under the transgender umbrella

-clarified summary of argument over use of the term

-I read the sources and added them as inline citations where I though they fit best.

-serves as -> represents, because I think that wildcard has a specific meaning (could be wrong) in computer searches, as referenced by source number 15

If you disagree with any of my choices, or want to add more information/make more changes to the article, please feel free to continue recommending them here! This was a great recommendation!

P.S., in the future, you can add inline citations by surrounding your citation template with ref tags like this <ref>{{cite web}}</ref>, but that may have been too much work on a talk page. However, regardless, if you want to recommend any future changes, I would ask that you just put which sources you are referencing, like this:

"User:JuxtaposedJacob is the greatest" [1]

[1]: The truest book

just so it is known which sources you want to use.

Again, thanks! Have a good day.

JuxtaposedJacob (talk) | :) | he/him | 05:43, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for that all. Yup, that's perfect cause I have problems sometimes with syntax or grammar. And here's an open PDF for 11: https://notablesdelaciencia.conicet.gov.ar/bitstream/handle/11336/143541/CONICET_Digital_Nro.632f17dd-d63f-4e3e-89dc-46a7306a31c9_A.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y LIrala (talk) 05:46, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Thanks also to @Malvoliox for removing the quotation marks; I neglected to do that.

JuxtaposedJacob (talk) | :) | he/him | 22:44, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

 Already done User:JuxtaposedJacob completed the request The AP (talk) 12:23, 8 December 2024 (UTC)