Talk:Toss bombing

Over-the-shoulder vs. LABS Maneuver?

I'm pretty sure that the standard American term for the over-the-shoulder delivery of nuclear weapons is "the LABS maneuver", but I'm working to confirm this. I believe this is covered in the April/May 2003 of Air & Space Smithsonian Magazine ("Exit Strategy," [1]) but I have to see if I can find my copy since the article is not online. I will try to add information and references in this direction. Will also create some redirects. --Patrick O'Leary 02:32, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Think the wikilink to CCRP is misdirected, this does seems to be an unrelated research organisation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.212.29.171 (talk) 17:35, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

LABS was the USAF technique back in the 50s and early 60s - is it still being used? is it still called that? find it hard to believe the latter as we're talking 50 years ago... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.158.48.11 (talk) 15:12, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

For that matter, LABS was a specific piece of equipment (a system as it were) put into early cold war USAF airplanes to aid the pilot in carrying out a specific toss bombing manuever - In any case, I don't think you could say the LABS is the USAF's name for toss bombing, any more than you could say that the Civic is Honda'a name for a small car. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.158.48.11 (talk) 15:18, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Film on YouTube of an Avro Vulcan doing a climbing LABS half-loop and half-roll off the top at Farnborough in 1956 here: [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.147.13 (talk) 18:20, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Under computer control?!?

"This tactic was first made public on 7 May 1957 at Eglin AFB, when a B–47 entered its bombing run at low altitude, pulled up sharply (3.5 g) into a half loop, releasing its bomb under computer control at a predetermined point in its climb"? What? An IBM 704 is the type of computer they had in 1957. The logistics of running it on a plane, not to mention a plane doing a loop, boggles the mind.--Prosfilaes (talk) 04:21, 16 December 2011 (UTC)

An IBM 704 may have been one type of early general-purpose programmable digital computer available in 1957, but by no means were the only computers available, particularly taking into consideration special-purpose mechanical analog computers. In addition to such bulky fire control equipment as the Ford Mark I found aboard naval vessels for control of large guns, smaller guns had gyroscopic precession mechanical computers to assist with aiming (e.g., for 40mm antiaircraft mounts), and bombers during World War II, including the B-17, B-24, etc., relied upon mechanical analog computers to reliably hit targets with their bomb load (e.g., the Norden bombsight). The B-47 included more advanced bombsight technologies, and the bomb release could be coupled to the bombsights to automatically drop a bomb load. See, for example, http://www.glennsmuseum.com/bombsights/bombsights.html and http://web.mit.edu/STS.035/www/PDFs/Newell.pdf. Arclem (talk) 20:44, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure "special-purpose mechanical analog computers" means much to most modern readers. If you can expand the place in the article with exactly what they're talking about, it would help.--Prosfilaes (talk) 12:57, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

It means a non-eletronic, non-digital computer that does only one task. Should be obvoius but you can check both Turing's and Babage's pages for more.200.186.92.217 (talk) 00:01, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Important new use and method with nukes

I was present at a demonstration at Fort Bragg, NC where the aircraft using a low level approach took first a vertical flight path, released the bomb (conventional of course) and returned by the same flight path (not obligatory). This allowed for aircraft protection (as before), precision delivery, and allowance for detonation at a higher altitude (for nuke effectivity against surface targets), and get-away time for the aircraft. I feel this would be a worthy addition here. FYI, TOT was also demonstrated in the same exercise. Idealist707 (talk) 09:50, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Possible source, Chuck Yeager's biography

I remember this kind of manoeuvre being described in Chuck Yeager's biography by Leo Janos. Apparently they experimented with this technique in F86 aircraft with a nuclear delivery role, as a means of ensuring the aircraft would get a safe distance away before detonation. Yeager's unit itself doesn't seem to have a wikipedia page, but there are references to it on these pages:

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Toul-Rosieres_Air_Base#50th_Fighter-Bomber.2FTactical_Fighter_Wing

http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Hahn_Air_Base#50th_Fighter-Bomber_Wing

Here's the information on the book itself, I don't have page numbers, don't have the book atm. Yeager, Chuck and Leo Janos. Yeager: An Autobiography. New York: Bantam, 1985. ISBN 978-0-553-25674-1

OneCatch (talk) 12:39, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Use in Combat

This sounds rather inaccurate, especially the over-the-shoulder delivery. Was this technique ever actually used in combat? Did it score any hits? Or was it only intended for nuclear delivery? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.137.134.50 (talk) 12:57, 3 July 2018 (UTC)