Talk:Toronto Argonauts/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Zanimum (talk · contribs) 13:57, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

I reviewed CFL in the US, I'll review this. -- Zanimum (talk) 13:57, 22 March 2014 (UTC)

Reading through the talk page, it sounds like great progress has been made in the article in recent months, particularly in minimizing the amount of space dedicated to 1990 onwards, and the active collection of sources for research.

Despite the physical length of this review, there is very little to take issue with.

That said, there is a great dependency on secondary sources, for things that could be easily also referenced to the period reporting. Things like the Mud Bowl or failure in spite of Russ Jackson and Anthony Davis could easily be doubled up with a second citation. Given the Argos own muddling of their history, in terms of when the first game was, that gives reason to double up references for 14abcde.

I'm a little ambivalent about this because I've never seen period report given greater weight than secondary summaries on Wiki (we're a tertiary source, after all) and asking for double referencing seems to set a high bar. TDL has provided some primary newspaper articles, however, so I will ask him to selectively insert a few more. I can also at least try to double check ref 14 points. Dontreadalone (talk) 02:43, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

General comments

• Dates: In the Notes: Citations section, the references vary between ISO formatting (2014-03-07) and natural language (January 15, 2013).
• Errors: References 69 and 115 are both rebelling with red errors.
• File formats: You link to various PDFs, which is good. While MediaWiki automatically adds a Adobe Reader icon, I believe there's a format= field available for each of the templates, to be used when a link doesn't go to a dynamic webpage, but instead another format of document. Consider format=PDF, just as a double "heads up" for readers.

Done

Lead

• You reference the Argo's championship win percentage in the intro, but then lack any references whatsoever in the first paragraph of "Championship summary".

Done

Name and colours

• "in North America period." --> "in North America, period." or even just "in North America."
• "(which still exists today)" --> ", which still exists today,"

Done

Franchise history

• Somewhat ironic that the "Argo bounce" reference doesn't come from "The Argo Bounce" (1983). Question: who was Annis Stukus? Newspaper reporter? Poet laurate of Toronto?

I added an extra sentence after the award named after him.

• Reference for Dark Ages moniker? It's an apt description, but you need to prove it was/is actually used.
• Rote's good living off the field... reference?
• Is CFLapedia an editable source? I don't believe we allow references to other wikis.
• "a calamitous late fumble", "an ill-advised kick"
• "Hollywood glitz arrived", "a convincing 35-22 win" might both be considered flowery

Done, except for CFLapedia. It is not a wiki but it is a one-person database. For player bios it's often the only source available. I use it sparingly, of course. Further comment welcome.

Passing "Championship summary", so long as you take care of the issue list up in lead.

Stadiums

• It's been a while since I interned at Rogers, but I thought the street name was Mount Pleasant, not Mt. Pleasant. Can you double check?
• If a "preponderance of other sources" say they moved to Varsity by 1911, I'd like to see at least a couple referenced in the note. Do any of the books referenced say? On the talk page, user:TDL references the Globe and Star databases available through the library, can you find an article there? I don't doubt the assertation, I just think it should be backed up with something more than ballparks.com

I cite the Argos own website to show there's a conflict! Also the ballpark article was written by Ian Speers, who's noted elsewhere as a definitive authority. Anyway, I removed "preponderance" and expanded the note slightly; the main book reference does not confirm either way.

• Skydome or SkyDome?
• The Rogers Centre image is fine as it is displayed, but you might want to consider putting it on it's own line, and bump up the size greatly. Something purely aesthetic to consider, but I've seen it done with lots of panoramics on Wikipedia, before. As it is currently, you can't really see if the players are on the field, or really even the field itself. It might as well have been taken at a Jays game.

Done

Ownership and management

Side note, I had no idea that TSN was originally owned by Labatt. What brilliant "horizontal integration" (I think it's that, as opposed to vertical).

• There's very minimal contrast between the Oxford blue and the Wikipedia link blue in this sidebox. I wonder if you could create an extra row to the table, and place the references in there? I know some actual templates for infoboxes clump all the references at the bottom.
• If Bassett/Cradock/Burns each held 20%, who held the other 40%? The rowing club? The bank? The league? I'm not sure if the answer is hiding in this section.
• The Northmen were not brought to the city by Bassett, correct? Have you considered coverage of in-market competition, like the Northmen and the numerous cross-border forays by Buffalo?
• Perhaps reference the "worst Argo attendance of the modern era" statement?
• See above link great, but I believe you need to get rid of the space after the dash for it to link properly. (It's not working offline, at least, while the TOC itself hops to the section.)

• Hyphen between Jewish and American
• While Lew is linked to in the table, he should also be linked to in the article.

Of side interest, I sorta know Chris Rudge's mom (I haven't seen in her a year, now, but she used to be a member of a group I am in.)

Passing "Current team", "Rivalries", "Notable personnel", "See also", "References", "External links". I do find it peculiar that two of the hidden templates at the bottom of the article are Argo-exclusive.

Still to review: "Notes" and images.

As to the redlinks issue raised by Onel5969, I don't agree at all with their interpretation. I've been on Wikipedia since late 2002, so my interpretation of "soon" is much less stringent. (Redlinks were originally blue, and would show up as "Harry Abofs?" Seriously. With a question mark at the end of a link. Thank goodness CSS saved us from the oddity.)

I'd like to applaud the collaborative nature of the editors working on Argos articles as a whole: it's what Wikipedia was meant to look like in special interest areas. You're working on Argo articles that interest you the most, and, given the time, will eventually get around to working on pages about personalities outside of your personal interests. It's completely justifiable. -- Zanimum (talk) 17:40, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for looking at this and all your kind words, Zanimum. We'll get on it shortly. Dontreadalone (talk) 17:32, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Images: the images mostly all check out, but the Pinball image is questionable. BlackPast doesn't really assert the source, and Google Images found a match on Clemons' foundation's website. It's not there anymore, but it appears as the thumbnail to a video on the website of the speakers' bureau he's repped by. I can find duplicates of Damon Allen, but nothing definitively before BlackPast. You may want to try and contact them, see if they can identify the source, because I'm a little skeptical. Or perhaps even ask the MPCF for a new image of him. -- Zanimum (talk) 23:08, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

You should have poked me with a stick, to tell me you had made the changes! Great stuff, pass! -- Zanimum (talk) 21:21, 30 March 2014 (UTC)