Talk:Tiberius Sempronius Gracchus (consul 177 BC)

Dates of birth and death

Could I ask relevant contributor for your source for the dob dod? Where did you get the dates from? Smith has birth at 210bc and date of death unknown. All modern scholars who mention him (Astin etc) assert dod unknown and tend toward 2010 for dob. University library sources dod unknown. Is there a source not mentioned? Brcbkh (talk) 06:34, 16 November 2017 (UTC)brcbkhBrcbkh (talk) 06:34, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

The relevant change was made in 2007 by User:Wikibiohistory. I have no idea where those specific dates come from. No dates for birth or death are given in Badian's article for this Gracchus in the Oxford Classical Dictionary. I dislike Smith's (positively ancient) dictionary: it's really too old and classicists have learnt much since the 19th century. Could you give, however, the name of the Astin work which "assert[s]" that the date of death is unknown? Thanks! Ifly6 (talk) 19:38, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

@Ifly6: Probably Alan E. Astin, Scipio Aemilianus, Oxford University Press, 1967, which is a good source for the period, albeit a little old. Astin says that Ti. Gracchus's father "died in the late 150's or early 140's" (p. 34).T8612 (talk) 22:29, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm planning to a stab at rewrites for this article, will probably include that if I can confirm (unless you can do so?). Ifly6 (talk) 22:33, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Sorry - ages since I looked at this. I just can't see where any modern scholar would get a primary or secondary source for such an exact date. Yes the source was Astin's Scipio Aemilianus. 31.54.85.254 (talk) 04:03, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

Untitled

How is the name "Gracchus" normally pronounced in English, please? ("Cicero" and "Caesar" are not normally pronounced in the Roman way by English-speakers - is that true of "Grachhus" or should the classical pronunciation be imitated? Presumably the classical pronunciation would approximate to grak-kooss if written in the English way?).

It is pronounced pretty much as it looks in English, well at least that is the most common usage (G-ra-cus). Latin pronunciation is not an exact science, we are not sure exactly how they said everything (for example it is very often accepted that a 'V' in latin is prounced as a 'W' in english, but this is still being debated). For example in English we say Caesar as (Ci-sar) and his full name Gaius Julius Caesar as (G-I-us Ju-li-us Ci-sar) where as in Latin many accept it would be Caius Iulius Caesar (G-I-us U-li-us Ki-sar) (Latin always uses hard Cs and there was no 'J' it was an 'I'). But when dealing with Ancient history, for ease, we tend to pronounce it as though it were English. 7:48 3 March 2008 Imperator101 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Imperator101 (talk • contribs) 10:52, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

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Reverts, 4 June 2023

Hi, MedRobo, I saw you made a number of changes which I reverted. I think some explanation is needed.

Contra an addition, this Gracchus is not the Gracchus who did land reform. The land reform Gracchus was the plebeian tribune of 133 BC. There is no evidence that this Gracchus did any sort of land reform during his plebeian tribunate in the early 2nd century. Your version of the article also mishandles the Antiochene war, in which Scipio Asiagenes was consul, held the auspices, and was legal commander. The more famous Africanus was merely a legate. The following "trial of the Scipios" – which did occur during this Gracchus' tribunate – was directed against Asiagenes for alleged corruption.

Format of years is 123 BC, per MOS:ERA, which states: It is advisable to use a non-breaking space. It is generally accepted across the WikiProject that we also name Romans in article text by their tria nomina without suffixes like consul 173. The titles use the parenthetical only for disambiguation. See WP:ROMANS.

The CS1 citation templates have parameters for separate names, eg |last1= etc. Please don't change them to use |author= alone. Nor should ISBNs be changed to be formatted without dashes. There was a recent discussion on this: Wikipedia talk:ISBN#Hyphens in ISBNs. Please also refrain from deleting ancillary citations to the primary sources. They are nice to have (though they should not be used alone).

It is also normal to retain the existing English variety, per WP:ENGVAR. I write in British English and the entire article is in British English. Please don't go through changing every neighbour to neighbor. Naturally, per another editor, please don't delete the entire bibiliography. Ifly6 (talk) 03:38, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

Please dont post on my Talk Page, thanks. --MedRobo (talk) 16:56, 5 June 2023 (UTC)\

This is not your talk page. Read the title. Ifly6 (talk) 20:59, 5 June 2023 (UTC)