Talk:Thomond

Untitled

4 cars or 4 car models? Daniel Quinlan 05:16, Mar 14, 2005 (UTC)

• Presumably 4 cars, or it would be a bit more well-known. See also Shamrock (car). 83.71.30.173 17:30, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

The list of places named after Thomond should be listed, I'll look into it -- Ghostreveries 11:31, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

This article and that on Galway are inconsistent. Galway is listed as founded by the Vikings here and by the King of Connacht in 1124 in the article on Galway. The Viking era is often taken to have ended in 1014, Clontarf. In any case, the kings of Connacht are at least nominally Irish, not Viking. I think the Galway article is correct. JohnCrowe 21:39, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I was abut to say the same thing. As a Galwegian I know of no evidence that Galway was founded by Vikings, or was indeed ever a Viking settlement. (Interestingly, this would make it the only major city on the Republic that was not settled by Vikings.) Sergeirichard (talk) 12:04, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Vikings

"...and still leads from the city of Limerick through a district now known as Thomondgate. The name indicates that there was a gate in the city defenses leading to 'Thomond'." Does it? It is more likely to be the widespread anglicisation of the Scandinavian gatan (= a street), as with Micklegate in York, Botchergate in Carlisle, Southgate in Bath, Friargate in Scarborough, Foregate in Chester, Gallowgate in Newcastle (Northumberland) &c – in which case it would just mean "the street leading towards Thomond". I shall change this unless there is objection. Diomedea Exulans (talk) 09:32, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Arms, etc.

Is there a reference for using the O'Brien flag and coat of arms of the arms of this "kingdom"? I've removed them in the mean time. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 23:44, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Yorkshirian, a quick Google book search for "arms of Thomond" brought back the following on it's first page:

I have in my possession a copy of O'Halloran's History of Ireland, 2 vols.,8vo., purchased at a book-stall in Holborn. On the inside of the cover of the first volume is a book-place, representing a stately warrior in full armour, the left hand resting on a shield, on which is engraved the arms of the O'Briens; and under the figure, the wards, "Brien Boroilune, Monarch of Ireland." On the inside of the cover of the second volume is a different book-plate, bearing the Thomond arms, and under it, "Murrough O'Brien, Marquis of Thomond." - Notes and queries, 1855

I hope you will take it as encouragement to pursue your search for the arms of Thomond elsewhere to the arms of the O'Breins. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 12:53, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

From the web:

The Chief Herald of Ireland’s office has stated that the first heraldic arms used by the Ui Briains is “gules a dexter forearm holding a sword in pale all proper.” This lends some continuity to King Brian’s banner design.

On 1 July 1543, the heraldic arms of the Kings of Thomond were changed forever when Murrough “The Tanist” Ua Briain, last and 57th King of Thomond, surrendered his kingdom to king Henry VIII of England, which kingdom was regranted to him with the English title of 1st Earl of Thomond (for life) and later Baron Inchiquin (heirs male), holding all in fee simple….

To show this resignation of the Gaelic Order and showing loyalty to the new king and government, the old heraldic arms were discarded…. The arms for Ua Briain were differenced to, “gules three lions passant guardant in pale per pale or and argent.” From an English point of view this was a great honor, but to the Irish, clan and Gaelic Order, it was surrender and defeat.

At this same time the Gaelic spelling of Ua Briain was changed to that of O’Brien by England.

So, according to that (unreliable?) source, the "three lions" O'Brein arms itself even originates after the period of the Kingdom of Thomond. I hope you will understand now the dangers of adding unsourced material. --rannṗáirtí anaiṫnid (coṁrá) 13:12, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Brian Boru, High King.

The three lions of the O'Briens dates from while the Kingdom of Thomond existed. When they surrendered the sovereignty to the Tudors, they had to alter their arms slightly so the back half of the lions were white to differentiate from the arms of England (in heraldry its illegal to have arms the same as the reigning monarch). The image talked about in your first source of Brian Boru is this, to the right, where he is holding the shield (Lions visable). By the way I think we should create a disambiguation for much of the clutter in this article (like Thomond Park, motoring company) this should be just about the kingdom IMO. - Yorkshirian (talk) 17:40, 1 August 2009 (UTC)

A history of Thomond by James Frost

The the copy of the book by Frost, that I have added to further reading, may be under copy right (The library claims copyright, I don't know), but just below this is a copy of the book in the Internet Archive which is in the public domain. So text can be cut and pasted from it providing our WP:PLAGIARISM guideline is met.

• Frost, James (1893). "Chapter 12. History of Thomond before it was formed into an English county: From the earliest times, to the death of De Clare, and expulsion of the English in 1318.". The history and topography of the county of Clare, from the earliest times to the beginning of the 18th century. Dublin: Printed for the author by Sealy, Bryers & Walker. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help) (1.2mb OCR copy of the book)

--PBS (talk) 03:55, 14 October 2010 (UTC)