Talk:The Wild Wild West/Archives/2016

"Karate" is an anachronism in The Wild Wild West

I just watched "Night of the Camera" (S4E9), where Pike incredulously says Cranston knows "karate." Since Cranston was identified as a Special Agent, that surprise implies he (and thus West), learned karate outside of normal Special Agent training. There was also a shift in the choreography of the fight scenes, changing the emphasis from karate (largely used in the first season) to boxing.[22] From: https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/List_of_The_Wild_Wild_West_episodes#Season_Two:_1966.E2.80.931967

Since karate was not introduced into Japan until the 1920s, I question whether any Westerner in America would know what the word meant or would recognize it in the 1870s. If they saw/learned/trained in it in its native Okinawa, it was called te ("hand") until the 20th C. https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Okinawan_martial_arts#History https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Gichin_Funakoshi

I am not sure if the word "karate" was even used in Japan prior to the 20th C. Kara-te is written in Japanese as "China hand" (since Okinawan te was developed from Chinese kung fu), or as "empty hand" (since it is unarmed fighting).

Japan's native unarmed fighting system was jujutsu, not karate. (Judo was derived from jujutsu in the late 19th C.) https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Jujutsu#History https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Karate#History https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Karate#Etymology

So, before the 1920s, a Westerner probably could not learn karate in Japan (much less in America), they would have to go to Okinawa. If they learned it there, it was not called karate, but rather just Te (or Tode or Tudi) (for "hand").

Although it wasn't as well known in America in the 1960s, French savate (combined with Western boxing) would have been a more likely choice as an exotic striking art for West and Cranston, perhaps with some catch wrestling thrown in to cover grappling. https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Savate#Early_history https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Catch_wrestling

Phantom in ca (talk) 07:45, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

Additional reference re. the historical relationship between Okinawa and Japan at the time of The Wild Wild West (~1870s): https://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/History_of_the_Ryukyu_Islands#Ryukyu_Kingdom Phantom in ca (talk) 08:54, 31 July 2016 (UTC) Phantom in ca (talk) 08:55, 31 July 2016 (UTC)

What was the layout of the train?

There's a lot of info. re. the real trains used in production, but very little info. about how the fictional train was supposed to be laid out.

From rear to front -- I don't know anything re. trains -- was a living area railcar; then a cargo car (presumably this is where the horses, gear, hay, etc. were kept), then a coal car and then the engine.

IIRC, going from the rear entry to the front, there was a living room area (with fireplace on the right wall (as seen when entering)). We never saw the inside of the left side since that was the camera's POV. Then, in the early B&W episodes there was a curtain divider and either a recreation room/area (with pool table), or dining area (dining table). Then there was a wall dividing the car and you had to go thru a door towards the right to get to where West's (and presumably Gordon's) clothes were hung and where a drop down gun rack holding both long guns, handguns, knife and lockpick was located. Further towards the front, but on the opposite side was a small laboratory. I think they once showed where the horses were kept, perhaps in the episode where they transported an elephant.

While I remember them often having fine dining, I do not recall ever seeing a kitchen, bathroom, bedroom, or other necessary areas (laundry, pantry for food, storage rooms for other supplies, etc.).

Hopefully, some TWWW fans who are into trains can add info. re. how the Wanderer was supposed to be laid out. Phantom in ca (talk) 20:53, 29 September 2015 (UTC)

The problem is sourcing that information. I've worked out the train's layout pretty well (and it did change during the course of the series), but that's synthesis according to Wiki stuff. There's no single, reliable source giving a solid layout as far as I know. Intothatdarkness 18:23, 30 September 2015 (UTC)

There is considerable information, including design drawings and sound-stage photos, about the train set on pp. 14-19 of this book: Susan E. Kesler, The Wild Wild West: The Series (Downey, CA: Arnett Press, 1988). On p 14 it is stated that "the interiors were comprised of a specially constructed set at CBS' Studio Center" and that "they included a coach car, a kitchen, a gun room, and a laboratory." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.25.115.38 (talk) 20:29, 15 October 2016 (UTC)

Section on Motion Picture

! deleted the bulk of this because it repeats huge chunks of the article regarding the film Wild Wild West, which is not the subject of this article. I submit that those interested in that film will follow the links to its article. That what hyperlinks are for, people, we needn't duplicate every bit of information across multiple pages on related subjects! MrNeutronSF (talk) 09:19, 14 December 2016 (UTC)