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A fact that the article lists several times, including in the infobox. Is there a specific place you think it should be added? Bestagon ⬡ 16:58, 2 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
Latest comment: 1 month ago8 comments3 people in discussion
@Osh33m Can you explain why you're repeatedly changing the photo of R Kelly in the section artistry? I explained in my edit summary that I changed the mugshot because it appears out of place with the other images of Michael Jackson and Prince, but you've been changing it back without explanation. Endoftalk03:46, 5 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
The image was already the one that was there when I first came across this wikipedia page. I disagree that it appears out of place because in 2024, that's what R. Kelly is most known for. An image of him performing is inappropriate in my opinion. Osh33m (talk) 01:25, 6 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
R Kelly isn't most known for his mugshot or his crimes however, he's most known for being a musician. If that's the case in 2024 is arguable, but the article mentions R Kelly because he influenced the Weeknd musically, so his crimes are ultimately irrelevant in the Weeknd's article and a picture of him performing is more appropriate.
Composition-wise the performance picture is better than the mugshot. Although I'll admit the photo I put in is somewhat blurry, the mugshot has too much grain which is noticeable. While the mugshot has a wide aspect ratio and is a headshot that only shows the head, the Michael Jackson, Prince, and R Kelly performance pics all have a tall aspect ratio and is a half-body headshot that shows the person from the waist up. This is what I meant by the mugshot is out of place. Endoftalk20:29, 7 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
I understood what you meant, but I still disagree. Having a picture of him performing is inappropriate because (as you said it's arguable that) he's most known for being a sexual predator in 2024, and that includes using his own art to lure is prey. That he influenced the Weeknd musically is irrelevant to the photo being used because the Artistry section already mentions that. If an image of his is to be included, it should be the mugshot. Osh33m (talk) 23:02, 7 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
I should have clarified that when I stated that he's most known for being a sexual predator in 2024, I was referring to the general public's opinion at that specific point of time. However, we should note that on Wikipedia, people should be referred to what they're most notable for throughout their lifetime. MOS:LEADBIO states that "Well-publicized recent events affecting a subject, whether controversial or not, should be kept in historical perspective. What is most recent is not necessarily what is most noteworthy: new information should be carefully balanced against old, with due weight accorded to each." To give just a few examples, Bill Cosby is more known as a a comedian and actor first rather than a sex offender and Jimmy Savile is more known as a media personality and DJ than a sexual abuser. I disagree that the musical influence is irrelevant to the photo; in fact, I think that because the Artistry section mention's R Kelly musical influence, it makes more sense to use a photo that thematically aligns with the text, i.e. the performance photo rather than the mugshot.
R. Kelly being a musician is why he has a Wikipedia article, but I also believe that his incarceration due to sexual misconduct is what is most noteworthy. If an onlooker decides to read the article from beginning to end, the onlooker may end up interpreting it being about a person with talent who became famous and used the fame to his advantage in becoming a predator. Let's go ahead and put WP:3O on it. Osh33m (talk) 21:33, 10 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
I still disagree that R Kelly's sexual misconduct is what is most noteworthy. An onlooker may interpret the articles as a person who used their fame to take advantage in becoming a predator as you said of course, but we should still consider due weight, usually determined by consensus for controversial subjects. Consensus in the talk page of R Kelly's article is that R Kelly is first and foremost known as a musician, and that descriptors like "sex offender" shouldn't be used in the first sentence. Even using the mugshot for the infobox image has raised BLP concerns. I still also believe that the performance picture fits better with the other pictures of Michael Jackson and Prince because of its similar composition.
The mugshot should not be used. R. Kelly is notable first and foremost as a musician. It's why he's mentioned in this article. Reviewing this request this has been a question for discussion at Talk:R. Kelly as well and the general consensus is not to use mugshots in the infoboxes for WP:BLP. That seems like a good rule of thumb for this case as well. Nemov (talk) 15:51, 13 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 22:35, 10 August 2024 (UTC)
Response to third opinion request: