Talk:The Family Rain

Edit request on 12 July 2013

The following paragraph has been added to the article, and even though it been cited with references online it's something that the band did as kids, and the Dark Horse thing existed but was an entirely different band / members.

If you could have this whole paragraph removed that would be great -

The band was formed following the dissolution of the brother's previous band, the AC/DC influenced Rock Pirates formed in 2004 with guitarist Tom Johnson who were describe as an "irony-free Darkness with bare torsos and blond highlights" and later named Dark Horse who released a self titled EP in February 2010.

And then for the next paragraph could you change -

"In 2011 the three brothers regrouped by themselves to form The Family Rain and released their debut single "Trust Me I'm A Genius" on Bigger Splash Records in November 2013"

To just the following (it obviously did not happen in November 2013, as we're not there yet) -

"The three brothers released their debut single "Trust Me I'm A Genius" on Bigger Splash Records in January 2013."

The date's just wrong otherwise, here's a. Thanks for your help!

Jackjambie (talk) 10:02, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

References

Why would removing the paragraph be great? Murry1975 (talk) 11:15, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

It would be great Murry1975 because I would feel with an "intensity considerably above the normal or average" that the page had been made more accurate based on what I was saying at the top. It's something that they did as kids. I believe that some other people on here have suggested some more constructive edits, so maybe change to one of those?

Not done: We will not remove referenced content just because you dislike it. -- TOW  talk  19:18, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Thanks  TOW  talk . I'm not too fussed to be honest, but I don't think that you've read my suggestions properly if you can't see why these might need editing, as there is an incorrect date in there at the moment for a start.

Reference removal 2 and 3 Edit request on 8 August 2013

Please remove the following sentences... "with guitarist Tom Johnson[2] who were describe as an "irony-free Darkness with bare torsos and blond highlights"[3]" references 2 and 3 are redundant and no longer exist. Therefore there is no source to backup these claims. many thanks Harry67676 (talk) 12:04, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

We then use {{dl}} dead link tags. Murry1975 (talk) 14:03, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Links have been tagged as dead. Keith D (talk) 19:48, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

New ref

http://www.venue.co.uk/music-live-reviews-b/10186-battle-of-the-bands-final

I think it should be noted that this user is clearly the same user who made the previous edit/removal request and is also likely responsible for the official Rock Pirates website being recently excluded from the Internet Archive in an attempt to get it removed from the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.230.127 (talk) 20:34, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I have replaced the second dead reference with this one. It does not cover the first dead link detail so I have left that one for now. Keith D (talk) 21:56, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

I think this article should cover it

http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/High-voltage-meet-Bath-s-hottest-rockers/story-11351507-detail/story.html#axzz2bPz2kucR — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.230.127 (talk) 22:13, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks again. I have replaced the dead link with that ref. Keith D (talk) 00:16, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 12 August 2013

Hi there! In the 2nd paragraph where it says -

"The band was formed following the dissolution of the brother's previous band, the AC/DC influenced Rock Pirates formed in 2004[1] with guitarist Tom Johnson[2] who were describe as an "irony-free Darkness with bare torsos and blond highlights"[3] and later named Dark Horse who released a self titled EP in February 2010.[4]"

Could someone who has the rights to do so please change it to -

"Ollie was the driving force to get the other brothers into music. He started playing guitar at 14 and then persuaded the twins to pick up instruments, Will playing bass and Tim, drums, calling themselves Rock Pirates[1], and later Dark Horse who released a self titled EP in February 2010.[4]"

"Will said: “Ollie picked up a guitar and then it was a very natural thing. We were growing out of an obsession with wrestling so had to go somewhere."

I tried to change it myself, but it said it was protected? The info is from this interview that they did for the Daily Record which is much newer than those other references cited and the words are the band's! :)

This is the reference for it!

Thanks very much!

F

Freddiesponge (talk) 09:41, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

References

Because of the consistent attempts at redacting this information, even going to the extent of having the web archive entries removed, I am not prepared to make these changes. Adding quotes to the lead section is not really appropriate, but I have added the reference to the existing material. Keith D (talk) 11:51, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 22 August 2013

I am requested that the second paragraph of this article be deleted as I know the information to be false and misleading.

geographeralex (talk) 19:44, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Not done: There appears to be a consistent effort, by IPs and newly registered users, here to redact this information which is referenced even going to the trouble of having the web archive information removed. Please come up with detailed explanation before this will be removed. Keith D (talk) 20:18, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Untitled

This is William Walter from the family rain. I request the removal of some inaccurate/irelavant from the article. From what I can see there is some inaccurate information on our page. As the creator of the family rain, I can confirm the band was not "formed following the dissolution of the brother's previous band, the AC/DC influenced Rock Pirates".Also it is not associated to the band darkhorse. It is a separate entity with no connection artistically, creatively, musically, to any of these projects, in the minds of its creators. The family rain was formed in 2011 with no previous material, no contacts and no platform in the music industry, it is not a re-creation or evolution of any other band/projects. Nobody has ever stated these band are linked and there is no reliable source to state that they are. I understand Wikipedias policy's on dealing with pages on living people are very thorough and fair, the information on our page is inaccurate and we deem it damaging to the online presence of the family rain. Although I acknowledge myself and my brother were in these other bands as people there is no purpose, reason or justification for that information being on the family rain Wikipedia page. In light of this information I request the following text to be removed.

"The band was formed following the dissolution of the brother's previous band, the AC/DC influenced Rock Pirates formed in 2004[1] with guitarist Tom Johnson[2] who were describe as an "irony-free Darkness with bare torsos and blond highlights"[3] and later named Dark Horse who released a self-titled EP in February 2010.[4][5]"

And the following links

1. http://www.tourdates.co.uk/rock-pirates 2. High voltage: meet Bath's hottest rockers". The Bath Chronicle. 10 February 2010. Retrieved 9 August 2013. 3 . Battle of the Bands Final". Venue Publishing. 11 December 2006. Retrieved 8 August 2013. 4 . http://archive.classicrockmagazine.com/view/february-2010/48/dark-horse

If you need any proof that I am who I say I am, I will be happy to provide anything you require. Thank you for you're time. Will — Preceding unsigned comment added by Willwalter1989 (talk • contribs) 16:17, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Unfourtunately Wikipedia isn't an extention of your official web presence, and it isn't an artists or record companies place to supress information. You clearly wish to remove any references to your previous bands, but unfourtuantely they were documented online and are entirely relevant to your current band and therefore this article. To suggest the information is false and that there is no link is disingenuous in the extreme, especially when you (and have previously using your other account names) "admitted" that all 3 members of The Family Rain were in The Rock Pirates and Dark Horse. The article does actually point out that The Family Rain was formed after Dark Horse ended.

Your attempt to remove the information from the internet by removing your old website for The Rock Pirates from https://archive.org is clearly documented in the history of this article and talk page. What is more "damaging", to have your previous bands mentioned on your Wikipedia page, or it documented for all to see that you have repeatedly tried to hide that information? If in the future someone wrote a book on The Family Rain, researched its members and found reference to The Rock Pirates and Dark Horse - would you expect them to not mention them or retract that information after you complain about those facts being "damaging" and "inaccurate"?

92.8.19.241 (talk) 16:17, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

I am not writing this request as an artist or on the behalf of a record label, but as a living person who is mentioned in this article. The Wikipedia page 'Biographies of living persons' (http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons) states a few things which I feel to be relevant to this discussion:

"Editors must take particular care when adding information about living persons to any Wikipedia page." "Contentious material about living persons (or in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced – whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable – should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion."

"This policy applies to any living person mentioned in a BLP, whether or not that person is the subject of the article, and to material about living persons in other articles and on other pages, including talk pages.[3] The burden of evidence for any edit on Wikipedia rests with the person who adds or restores material."

I feel the most relevant section, however is section 3.4 of said article, "People who are relatively unknown". In particular the statements:

"Many Wikipedia articles contain material on people who are not well known, even if they are notable enough for their own article. In such cases, exercise restraint and include only material relevant to the person's notability"

"Material that may adversely affect a person's reputation should be treated with special care"

I feel that information on previous projects (especially given that it is taking up a large proportion of a currently locked Wikipedia page) is not relevant to my notability and is damaging to my reputation, which is why I have requested its removal.

Admin help? Odd really. (BTW I am not one.)

Trouble section? "The band was formed following the dissolution of the brother's previous band, the AC/DC influenced Rock Pirates formed in 2004 with guitarist Tom Johnson who were describe as an "irony-free Darkness with bare torsos and blond highlights"

Did the Family Rain not start after Rock Pirates? The sources doesnt mention this, but a basic calculation of band finish-start dates would confirm its correct.

Also the sources qouted use "AC/DC influenced" and "irony-free Darkness with bare torsos and blond highlights", so these are both sourced and varifable.

Will's opionion "Although I acknowledge myself and my brother were in these other bands as people there is no purpose, reason or justification for that information being on the family rain Wikipedia page." Why? It is varifable and sourced, you cant change the past, even more so in the digital media age.

Will's reason "I feel that information on previous projects (especially given that it is taking up a large proportion of a currently locked Wikipedia page) is not relevant to my notability and is damaging to my reputation, which is why I have requested its removal." Have you also requested that the websites that have been used as sources also retract thier coverage of you? It takes up a small portion, and mentioning of previous bands is a common practice on here.

I would be in the opinion of its souced and correct- it stays. Murry1975 (talk) 17:43, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Not quite sure why the {{adminhelp}} tag is here? I locked the page and have requested that agreement on the changes be made on the talk page as there was a content dispute on the presence or absence of this material. With what looked like some cover-up be those involved with the band. The present situation is leaning towards retaining which is the position I would take if involved in the discussion. Keith D (talk) 21:55, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Edit Request

Couple of edit requests

1. There is a typo in "who were describe as an" - it should be described

2. Change "The band released "Carnival", their first single for Mercury in March 2013 and following that up with the "Pushing It EP" in May 2013. The bands debut album is set for release later in the year.

The band toured the UK and Europe supporting The Courteeners and Willy Moon throughout March and April 2013 before embarking on their first headline tour throughout May and June 2013 in support of the Pushing It EP. Another headline tour tour of the UK will take place in October 2013." to :

The band released "Carnival", their first single for Mercury in March 2013 and followed that up with the "Pushing It EP" in May 2013 and digital releases "Reason To Die" in July and "Feel Better (Frank)" in October 2013. The bands debut album "Under The Volcano" is set for release on 3 February 2014.

The band toured the UK and Europe supporting The Courteeners and Willy Moon throughout March and April 2013 before embarking on their first ever headline tour throughout May and June 2013 in support of the Pushing It EP. Through September to November, the band supported Miles Kane and Jake Bugg across the UK before embarking on their second headline tour of the UK through November 2013.

92.8.30.145 (talk) 16:29, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

References

 Done for your first request. Jianhui67 ^{talk★contribs} 18:00, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Is there an issue with the second edit request? 92.8.30.145 (talk) 18:16, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Is there any chance of anyone responding to the my main edit request?

92.8.16.4 (talk) 11:50, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Reflist

Added this reflist to facilitate checking. --Stfg (talk) 12:26, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Done. Please be patient with these edit requests. We're all volunteers, and two days is better than average. Moreover, the links you provided are "bare URLs". Take a look at the References section to see what the other references provide that yours omit. I haven't filled them out. --Stfg (talk) 12:41, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I would have been more patient if someone hadn't done the first request and then another editor edited the page omitting a double word which my second request corrected, after seeing the second request - it just seemed like it was being actively ignored.

92.8.16.4 (talk) 15:57, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

No, just wating for someone to take the plunge. When edit requests are made using the template you used, they get automatically listed on a maintenance page. Anyone who does these at all the outstanding requests. Yours was larger than average because there are a lot of links in it, is all. And sometmes, I suspect, people are just occupied elsewhere. Cheers, --Stfg (talk) 16:23, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Edit Request - Update Reference URLs

Two of the references seem to have been removed (again). Both have been archived on archive.org.

Reference 1 - http://www.tourdates.co.uk/rock-pirates

           Archive URL - https://web.archive.org/web/20100709074804/http://www.tourdates.co.uk/rock-pirates

Reference 4 - http://archive.classicrockmagazine.com/view/february-2010/48/dark-horse

           Arhive URL - https://web.archive.org/web/20130718104739/http://archive.classicrockmagazine.com/view/february-2010/48/dark-horse

92.8.27.38 (talk) 13:25, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

I have added the archive URLs as requested. Keith D (talk) 14:01, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Cheers - much appreciated. 92.8.27.38 (talk) 17:16, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Edit Request on 7 Dec 2013

I wish the following content to be added after the line "The band toured the UK and Europe supporting The Courteeners and Willy Moon throughout March and April 2013[25] before embarking on their first ever headline tour throughout May and June 2013 in support of the "Pushing It EP".[26]" :

Throughout the summer, the band made appearances at several UK festivals including supporting The Rolling Stones at Hyde Park, playing the Festival Republic stage at Reading and Leeds festivals and the Alcove stage at Latitude festival. They also made appearances at festivals throughout Europe, including Sumerwell festival in Buftea, Romania, Pukkelpop festival in Belgium and supported Biffy Clyro at Mallorca Rocks and Ibiza Rocks

90.198.234.5 (talk) 11:53, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

References

If I have not referenced this in the correct way, here are the links which cite the relevant information, in the correct order of course: http://www.bst-hydepark.com/events/detail/the-family-rain http://www.readingfestival.com/line-up/artist/family-rain http://www.leedsfestival.com/line-up/artist/family-rain http://www.latitudefestival.com/line-up/artist/family-rain http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxHkwbQOwwU http://www.pukkelpop.be/en/bands/the-family-rain http://www.mallorcarocks.com/events/all-events/mallorca-rocks-with-biffy-clyro/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCjrxgz_MmI 90.198.234.5 (talk) 14:52, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Can you provide some reliable sources - the youtube references are not really acceptable. Keith D (talk) 00:57, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

yes of course, no problem here are some references relating to the band performing at Summerwell festival in Buftea, Romania: http://www.summerwell.ro/editia.2013#a, http://www.bucharest-tips.com/events/274-festival-summer-well-festival-2013, http://www.songkick.com/festivals/630574-summerwell/id/15612309-summerwell-festival-2013, http://travelguideromania.com/summer-well-festival-2013/, http://citycompass.ro/events/summer-well-festival-2013/

and here are some references relating to the band performing at Ibiza Rocks with Biffy Clyro: http://www.ibizarocks.com/events/all-events/ibiza-rocks-with-biffy-clyro/, http://forum.ibiza-spotlight.com/threads/biffy-clyro-the-family-rain-ibiza-rocks-24-07-13.69130/, http://ibizarocksinfo.com/blogdetail.php?id=2877

please use whichever of these is deemed most appropriate, many thanks

2.220.34.158 (talk) 02:55, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

 Done Keith D (talk) 09:33, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

thank you 2.126.94.195 (talk) 12:07, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

Edit Request on 8 Dec 2013

I wish to make some additions to the following paragraph:

In 2011 the three brothers regrouped by themselves to form The Family Rain and released their debut single "Trust Me I'm A Genius" on Bigger Splash Records in November 2012.[15] The band then signed to Universal Music Group subsidiary Mercury Records and began work on their debut album with producer Jim Abbiss at Hansa Studios in Berlin.[16] The band released "Carnival", their first single for Mercury, in March 2013[17] and followed it up with the "Pushing It EP" in May 2013[18] and digital releases "Reason To Die" in July[19] and "Feel Better (Frank)" in October 2013.[20] The band's debut album Under The Volcano is set for release on 3 February 2014.[21] Following Universal's acquisition of EMI and dissolution of Mercury Records, the band were moved to the label's newly launched Virgin EMI Records.[22][23]

Here is the paragraph with the proposed additions:

In 2011 the three brothers regrouped by themselves to form The Family Rain and recorded their debut single "Trust Me... I'm A Genius" with producer Tom Dalgety at Rockfield Studios in Monmouth, Wales . The band uploaded the song with a video on to Youtube on 29th May 2012. On 10th June 2012, the song was featured as 'Track of the Day' on the music blog 'Killing Moon'. Following a digital release on November 19, 2012 'Trust Me… I'm A Genius' was released on limited edition vinyl by independent label Bigger Splash on January 7, 2013. The song enjoyed early support from Zane Lowe on Radio One. The band then signed to Universal Music Group subsidiary Mercury Records and signed a publishing deal with Universal Music Publishing. They began work on their debut album with producer Jim Abbiss at Hansa Studios in Berlin.[16] The band released "Carnival", their first single for Mercury, in March 2013[17] and followed it up with the "Pushing It EP" in May 2013[18] and digital releases "Reason To Die" in July[19] and "Feel Better (Frank)" in October 2013.[20] The band's debut album Under The Volcano is set for release on 3 February 2014.[21] Following Universal's acquisition of EMI and dissolution of Mercury Records, the band were moved to the label's newly launched Virgin EMI Records.[22][23]

Here are the sources used to cite the information (in order) if needed:

(used as a reference twice)

2.126.94.195 (talk) 12:59, 8 December 2013 (UTC)

References

Not done: See WP:42 and WP:RS; Most of the sources you have linked fail verification. --Mdann52talk to me! 13:19, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Have addressed link problems please let me know if any further problems Keith. 78.149.248.181 (talk) 18:45, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

Edit Request on 11 Dec 2013

Hello. Was hoping to make a couple of edit additions to the page, along with relevant links to back up the information. Please include them in the article wherever you feel most appropriate, many thanks.

The band supported Thirty Seconds To Mars at the iTunes Festival in London in September 2013. A live recording of the show was released on iTunes, following the event.

Ollie Walter revealed he was the first of the brothers to pick up an instrument, and started to play the guitar age 14.

The video for the band's single Reason To Die, was filmed at the Waterats in London. It was a world first interactive experience created by the Powster agency, which allows viewers to manipulate the view of the band's performance via 16 different GoPro cameras, as the video plays. The video was nominated for an award in the Interactive Video category at the 2013 UK Music Video Awards, and won an FWA (Favourite Website Award).

Recently the band recorded a cover version of the Depeche Mode single, Enjoy The Silence, for the Made In Chelsea soundtrack. The song, which was recorded in the band's hometown of Bath with Tom Dalgety, was released on the soundtrack album via Decca Records on November 4 2013.

92.233.80.134 (talk) 09:44, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

References

Done 1 and 3. #2 is not really sutable for this article. --Mdann52talk to me! 14:39, 29 January 2014 (UTC)

Previous edits

It seems like the references are being included in the links but no additions are being made to the article so the links don't actually make any sense being there. Can you make the changes in the article too please?

90.219.83.152 (talk) 12:26, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Additional changes

Hello. None of the following has been added to the Wikipedia page for the band however the links have. Can we please add the edit so the links are relevant. Thanks Keith.

The band supported Thirty Seconds To Mars at the iTunes Festival in London in September 2013. A live recording of the show was released on iTunes, following the event.

[26] [27]

Ollie Walter revealed he was the first of the brothers to pick up an instrument, and started to play the guitar age 14.

[28]

The video for the band's single Reason To Die, was filmed at the Waterats in London. It was a world first interactive experience created by the Powster agency, which allows viewers to manipulate the view of the band's performance via 16 different GoPro cameras, as the video plays. The video was nominated for an award in the Interactive Video category at the 2013 UK Music Video Awards, and won an FWA (Favourite Website Award).

[29] [30] [31]

Recently the band recorded a cover version of the Depeche Mode single, Enjoy The Silence, for the Made In Chelsea soundtrack. The song, which was recorded in the band's hometown of Bath with Tom Dalgety, was released on the soundtrack album via Decca Records on November 4 2013.

[32] [33]

78.149.248.181 (talk) 18:47, 16 January 2014 (UTC)

The references present in the article are for the text already in the references as far as I can see. The refs for the band playing with Biffy Clyro have nothing to do with recording a cover version for a soundtrack for instance.

92.8.23.8 (talk) 12:08, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20131203052418/http://www.thefamilyrain.com/?p=308 to http://www.thefamilyrain.com/?p=308

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Semi-protected edit request on 16 March 2016

Add their upcoming EP "Every So Often (2016)" Rodztf (talk) 19:30, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 20:24, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

TFR breakup / Voyages

The final sentence of this article is incorrect: "The band broke up in 2016, with the brothers going on to form Voyages who released their debut EP New Year’s Day in February 2018.[48][49]" Please change to: "In 2017 the brothers formed a new band called Voyages, adding Lewis and James Woods on drums and bass, respectively. The debut EP from Voyages, titled "New Year's Day" was released in December of 2017 digitally and on vinyl.

Sources to support December release date and vinyl release format, and previously noted source which verifies additional members of new group and their instruments:

None of these sources indicate that The Family Rain have broken up, and in fact the band's comment on their YouTube Channel indicates both are active. (I realize this may not pass muster as a source, but may at least point out that this info is inaccurate...)

Thanks! Ps - at what point should a new page be created for Voyages? Have seen a few interviews, EP reviews, magazine picks as track of the week etc for them already, and the band seems to be actively working on new music and playing gigs around the UK Gigglespickles (talk) 02:02, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

References

 Not done: Please read the entire article. The History section ends with the statement: The band broke up in 2016, with the brothers going on to form Voyages who released their debut EP New Year’s Day in February 2018. This statement contains two reliable sources to verify the statement. That the same personnel are essentially forming the new band is a bit confusing but not unprecedented. An article on Voyages would be acceptable once the new band reaches notability under the criteria for bands or under the general notability guideline. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 18:37, 22 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks so much for the response. I'm a bit confused by it though, as I have read the entire article, as well as the entirety of both sources cited in regard to the sentence in question (at the end of the History section). I'm not seeing anything which verifies or indicates that TFR ever announced a breakup. That seems to be assumed in this sentence because of the creation of the new band Voyages. Have another look if you would please, as I feel my edit more accurately reflects the sources cited, (even just the ones already cited in the article). Thanks Gigglespickles (talk) 20:52, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

 Note: PagingEggishorn: Are you still working on this, or should I take over? qwerty6811 :-) Chat Ping me 16:15, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

@Qwerty6811: Unless Eggishorn has anything further to add, it looks like you can take it over. LittlePuppers (talk) 04:47, 6 June 2018 (UTC)

I am closing this in a procedural matter. No response in almost three weeks. Please reopen if you are still interested in making this edit. — MRD2014 ^Talk 12:38, 25 June 2018 (UTC)

Gigglespickles (talk) @Qwerty6811: Hi guys, sorry hadn't checked in for a while. My edit is only intended to more accurately reflect the sources already cited (and provide additional sources to that end). If you wouldn't mind please taking a look I think it would benefit the accuracy of this article! Thanks