Talk:The Eras Tour

Surprise songs for New Orleans N1

Please add the surprise songs played on the first New Orleans show which are:

"Our Song" / "Call It What You Want" and "The Black Dog" / "Haunted" Victor Perrault (talk) 08:42, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Question in section directly below. Commander Keane (talk) 09:58, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

Set list as well as surprise songs

Keep in mind that Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information and I am feeling the incredibly long and exhaustive set list, and especially the surprise songs listings, may violate that. Contradicting me somewhat is Music of the Spheres World Tour#Set list, but don't be surprised if all your hard work gets reduced down in edits of the future.

Also, it would be helpful if inline citations to reliable sources are provided so accuracy of details can be verified.

@Victor Perrault, could you provide sources for New Orleans N1? Commander Keane (talk) 09:57, 26 October 2024 (UTC)

If citable, would it be possible to have an article solely for a list of the surprise songs? Theknine2 (talk) 12:31, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

https://variety.com/2024/music/news/taylor-swift-eras-tour-surprise-songs-list-1235578714/ 46.208.67.224 (talk) 09:04, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

@Tpbradbury removed the surprise songs list in this edit. I think it is best to discuss in this section rather than fragment as the IP has already done below.

@Theknine2, I have no idea if a separate article for surprise songs is possible. I don't even know how to come to a decision on that, apart from creating it and going through a deletion discussion. I do find it interesting that Vertigo_Tour#Set_list is entirely prose. It does lack citations though. Commander Keane (talk) 09:28, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Since you've mentioned the "Set list" section of a different tour, I think using this "Set list" format in M72 World Tour#Set list (specifically the collapsible "Songs performed on the tour" box) could be adapted for the Eras Tour surprise songs list. It conveys the information about which songs have been performed throughout the tour, while not being "indiscriminate". Theknine2 (talk) 10:52, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Sample layout for the "Surprise songs" list format that I'm referring to:

(songs listed are only for demonstration purposes, and are not intended to be accurate)

Surprise songs

Swift performed two tracks from her discography at each show as "surprise songs" in the ninth act—the first on acoustic guitar and the second on piano. These songs have been performed as "surprise songs" throughout the tour:

Taylor Swift

• "Tim McGraw"
• "Picture to Burn"
• "Teardrops on My Guitar"
• "A Place in This World"
• "Cold as You"

Fearless

• "Fifteen"
• "Hey Stephen"
• "White Horse"
• "Breathe"
• "Tell Me Why"
• "You're Not Sorry"

Speak Now

• "Mine"
• "Sparks Fly"
• "Back to December"
• "Speak Now"
• "Dear John"

Red

• "State of Grace"
• "Red"
• "Treacherous"
• "Speak Now"
• "Stay Stay Stay"
• "The Last Time"
• "Holy Ground"

TenthAvenueFreezeOut (talk) 09:02, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I don't really think this is a good idea since Swift has performed almost every single song from her discography which are +200 songs. She also performed some featured songs like "Us", several soundtrack songs, and even songs that are not hers like "Thinking Out Loud", "Espresso", and "Please Please Please". @Ippantekina has split the set list into two sections which is a good idea and is recommended at MOS:DONTHIDE, so I see no problems at the moment. Medxvo (talk) 09:20, 7 November 2024 (UTC)

I'm a little disappointed in the removal of the surprise song list without a balanced discussion on why its inclusion isn't relevant and violates the "indiscriminate collection of information" rule.

I understand the concern about the surprise song list for The Eras Tour potentially being too exhaustive or violating Wikipedia’s guideline against indiscriminate information. However, I’d like to clarify why this list is both appropriate and valuable for the article, especially when considering similar articles.

Firstly, other major concert tour articles do include detailed setlist information when it’s significant to the concert experience. For example, Coldplay’s Music of the Spheres World Tour Wikipedia page includes setlist details without issue. In the case of The Eras Tour, the “surprise songs” have become a defining feature, covered extensively by reliable sources and widely recognized as part of Swift's unique way of interacting with her audience. Far from being random information, these song choices are reported in major media and contribute meaningfully to fans' and readers' understanding of the tour’s structure and appeal.

Additionally, setlists that feature rotating or surprise elements are not new for Taylor Swift tour articles. The Reputation Stadium Tour, The Red Tour, and The 1989 World Tour pages each retain lists of special songs to this date, with these elements considered a core part of Swift’s concert experience. Removing the list from The Eras Tour article would be inconsistent with the established pages within Wikipedia for her previous tours. Other notable tours, like Beyoncé’s Renaissance World Tour, even list unadvertised opening DJs who varied by city, highlighting Wikipedia’s acceptance of unique, show-specific elements when they’re important to the tour.

Finally, Wikipedia guidelines on indiscriminate information encourage relevance and context, rather than outright exclusion of detailed lists. This list of surprise songs is backed by reliable sources and provides context to a widely discussed aspect of the tour, aligning with the guideline’s intent. If length is a concern, we could creating a separate page dedicated to the surprise songs list with a brief summary in the main article.

In summary, the surprise song list is well-sourced, relevant, and aligned with both Wikipedia precedent and the guidelines on contextual information. Retaining this list adds real value for readers by showcasing a unique element of The Eras Tour that has cultural significance and strong media interest. User-173c1a65 (talk) 05:43, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

@Medxvo has restored the surprise songs list. Hopefully they will drop by soon and contribute on how to move forward - which may include a separate article. I see there is no guidance at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lists of works. Maybe Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians can help?

@User-173c1a65, that was a very well written and thoughtful response (I am not being condescending, I found it interesting). However, pointing out the style of other articles (which I am guilty of) and claiming that is the global consensus can be an issue. I think relevance and context is at the moment best being achieved in the Notes section as it uses prose based on newspaper articles, music magazine articles etc. Commander Keane (talk) 22:16, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Currently, there are only three featured articles about concert tours and they don't have any information related to surprise songs, so there is also no real guidance from this side. I think referencing the current version of Music of the Spheres World Tour#Set list and including all of the surprise songs performed for each city for each year is a good idea, for example;

• Miami, 2024 – "Tim McGraw", "Timeless", "This Is Me Trying", "Daylight", "Should've Said No", "I Did Something Bad", "Loml", "White Horse", "Out of the Woods", "All You Had to Do Was Stay", "Mirrorball", and "Guilty as Sin?".

This still seems long due to having mashups, but I guess it's better than the current version?

I thought about suggesting using a collpase or hidden templates, referencing U2 360° Tour#Setlist or the GA-reviewed version of Music of the Spheres, but I don't think that's a really good idea. Anyhow, MOS:DONTHIDE suggests dividing into more sections, using prose (Vertigo Tour#Set list?), or splitting. I do agree that the surprise songs "phenomena" can have its own article, but not just the "list" of the songs.

I also don't think we can reference Reputation Stadium Tour#Surprise songs, The 1989 World Tour#Surprise songs, or The Red Tour#Surprise songs, mainly because Swift has performed her +200 songs during this tour, which didn't happen before.

@Commander Keane: Let me what you think, also pinging @Ronherry: who significantly contributed to the article to let them know about the discussion and share their thoughts if they wish. Medxvo (talk) 23:30, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello there! I'm a major contributor to Music of the Spheres World Tour and some other users there took issue with the Highlights section just like with the Surprise Songs here. As a fan of both acts, I think these segments are notable parts of their artistry when it comes to live shows and they deserve to be preserved somehow. I like the idea of a separate page for Taylor Swift and I would be happy to make one for Coldplay to make things standardised as well. They could even include all the tours of each artist instead of an specific one! On the other hand, I'm afraid other Wikipedians might be keen to delete such articles. Feel free to ask me any Coldplay-related questions! GustavoCza (talk • contribs) 00:33, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

I agreed with this. While it is indeed exhaustive to keep on adding to the list, removing the whole list is against Wikipedia's notability guidelines. The Surprise Song is a whole topic on its own and has received so much independent coverage. I'm okay with creating a separate article for the songs, as per WP: SPLIT. ℛonherry☘ 01:30, 4 November 2024 (UTC)

Surprise song removal

This was a great resource and has now been removed? Please revisit this. 46.208.67.224 (talk) 09:03, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

It will be discussed in the section directly above, thanks. Commander Keane (talk) 09:29, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 November 2024

In the supporting acts section, METTE, a British artist hasn’t been listed, she performed in London Night 1 along with paramore. 81.110.16.133 (talk) 15:29, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done Please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. HorrorLover555 (talk) 15:34, 2 November 2024 (UTC)