Talk:The Boat Race 1863/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Bilorv (talk · contribs) 12:09, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, no copyvios, spelling and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Infobox

• The margin of victory is stated to be "15 lengths". I'm no expert in rowing; what does this mean? Is it related to this nautical article: length overall? Is it a specific distance that could also be stated in the article?

  It is the length of the rowing boat, it was roughly translated as the distance covered by a boat at full speed in three seconds but there's nothing reliable about that. I'm stating what the RS state, 15 lengths. It most probably is the nautical article that you linked, but I'm not going to use original research to assume as such. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Background

• The inline citation for "Dark Blues" is from 2003; is there a citation (or reference in the Bibliography) that shows Oxford were called "Dark Blues" in 1863? Same thing with "Light Blues" and Cambridge.

  Almost certainly, but I'm not sure it's relevant, the background section is intended to give the reader a clue about the event (rather than hoping they've read the mediocre The Boat Race article). The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

• Was the race "followed ... worldwide" in 1863? This needs a citation saying it was well-known globally back then, not just an American source from and about 2014.

  Rephrased. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Crews

• Is it worth including a picture of Woodgate, or is one picture of a crew member enough?

  I'll work on this section a little bit. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Race

• Change "toss" to "coin toss" for clarity.

  No, British English is quite clear that if you "win the toss" you've done it with a coin. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

• Add a Wiktionary link to ebb tide, for those of us unfamiliar with rowing terminology.

  Done. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

• I'd prefer an adaptation of File:University Boat Race Thames map.svg, with "Start" and "Finish" swapped around to avoid confusion, but I see exceptions were made for The Boat Race 1846 and The Boat Race 1856, so this isn't vital.

  I'm not in a position to do this, it's possible I could ask at one of the workshops but usually the turnaround is disappointing. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

• It is not explicitly stated that the start and finish was switched, and the course was travelled in the opposite direction to normal — or at least, wasn't clear enough for me to understand immediately. Would it be a good idea to add something like This means that the race was held in the opposite direction to normal. after the second sentence?

  Added a statement in the lead saying it was from Mortlake to Putney, and a bit of a "reverse" statement. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

• "a number of steamers" — as in, paddle steamer? Steam yacht? Steamboat?

  It's most likely paddle steamers or steamboats, but since it's a quote, we are often discouraged from making our own interpretation and adding a wikilink within a quote, just in case we get it wrong. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

• Is 15 lengths a large margin of victory? What's the average margin in the Boat Races? Any statement like this would need to be sourced, to avoid WP:OR, but I have no idea whether this was a very close contest, or an easy win.

  It's a massive margin of victory. These days, but only two years earlier it had been won by 16 lengths, hence my reluctance to make a big deal out of it. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

References

• The MacMichael link here shows the search for "boat race" oxford cambridge. Replace it with [1].

  Done. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

External links

• No problems.

Lead

• ... the first time since the 1836 race that the scores were level. — This is not mentioned anywhere else in the article, and doesn't have an inline citation. If it's backed up somewhere in the Bibliography, can it be mentioned under Race as well as in the lead? EDIT: I see the statement comes from page 301 of the MacMichael book; can we have an inline citation there? I also still think it should be mentioned under the Race section. — Bilorv ^(talk)_(contribs) 12:11, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

  Added more to the end. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

The article is now being placed on hold. — Bilorv ^(talk)_(contribs) 12:09, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

An excellent and thoroughly conducted review, my thanks. I will aim to get these comments addressed in the next 24 hours or so. Thanks again! The Rambling Man (talk) 13:32, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks again, I have a little more work to do on the upfront stuff, but will note it here when I'm done. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:57, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

@Bilorv: I addressed a number of your concerns directly in edits, and have responded to those which I'm either not entirely in agreement with or that may require more discussion. Thanks again for your diligence, and I look forward to continuing with the nomination. The Rambling Man (talk) 22:17, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

"broacast" --> "broadcast". Everything else has been resolved. — Bilorv ^(talk)_(contribs) 23:14, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Typo fixed, thanks again. The Rambling Man (talk) 09:48, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for responding so quickly. Pass for GA. — Bilorv ^(talk)_(contribs) 09:58, 28 December 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the thorough review and helpful comments. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:12, 28 December 2014 (UTC)