Talk:Taunton

Early text

Pray tell me why is being home of the Woolworths employee of the year 3 times running relevant to an encyclopedia (AlanCox 16:53, 29 March 2007 (UTC))

Impartial content based on opinion or with no supporting sources removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.212.16.162 (talk) 19:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

revisions of otheruses

I have noticed the template for "otheruses" keep being reverted on this article, and I wondered whether we could try to achieve consensus here. The debate seems to be between a single link to the disambiguation page Taunton (disambiguation) or alternatively a link to the disam page + a link to the specific article for Taunton, Massachusetts, with an edit summary which says "(re-add dab link to Taunton, Massachusetts; rmd w/o discussion, and including links to notable American cities of the same name as British ones is common, see Worcester and Plymouth)". Personally I can't see why the link to the US town should take precedence over other places and things named Taunton which are included in the disam page - but I wanted to get others opinions here before reverting the latest change. Any thoughts? — Rod ^talk 09:28, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

If there was only one other town called Taunton then I would support the dual otheruses template, but as there are a number I really think we should have the single otheruses link to the disambiguation page. --TimTay (talk) 09:42, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

My logic behind adding the dab link was basically that the city of Taunton, MA is roughly the same size as this one, one of the largest cities in Massachusetts, one of the first cities in the colonial United States, and one of the centers of the silver industry in New England for several years. While the city is certainly not as prominent as this one, I felt it deserved mention in a dab link, as a large number of editors would likely expect "Taunton" to be about that article. You can see that a quick Google search brings up several hits for Taunton, MA on the first page. There are only two other cities referred to as "Taunton" on the dab page, a municipality of 207 people in Minnesota and a hamlet in New York State. The MA city is clearly more notable than these two locales (the other things on the dab page would almost never be searched for by typing in only "Taunton" - Taunton Stop Line, Taunton National Park, Taunton River, etc.). That is why I put in the dab link (I originally placed it here in July 2007, but it was removed here in October 2007, hence the "rmd w/o discussion" comment). I feel as if this situation is similar to that of Plymouth and Worcester, where the articles are about the more prominent UK cities, but dab links are added to the notable Massachusetts cities of the same name to make it easier for editors searching for those pages. Cheers, Rai-me 23:56, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

You make a good point. Seems a reasonable argument to me. --TimTay (talk) 00:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Population of Taunton

I've noticed the population of Taunton (The town) keeps getting changed; Between 55K, 88K and 102K. The true figure being much closer to 55K, yet someone keeps changing it to the claim that Taunton has 88K with a Urban Area of 102K (This being only 7K less than the whole of Taunton Deane district council). With this change of population, come the claim, quite wrongly that Taunton is the largest town in Somerset. Both Bath and Weston being larger by some 15K to 20K. Technically Weston is the largest town in Somerset with 71K, and Bath is the largest city with 80K. A quick search of online sources will confirm a range of populations from 55K to 60K. Though I believe from misinformation on this website has started a trend of a few website quoting figures like 100K.

I offer the official figures published by somerset.gov.uk [1] which claims the figure to be 61,400 as of 2001. I've seen no evidence anywhere, including the somerset.gov.uk website to justify a claim that between 2001 and 2008, the population increased at an average of 6.5% per year (Or anything approaching this rate). Official figures, again from somerset.gov.uk, claim the the whole of Taunton Deane raised from 102K to 109K over the period 2001 to 2007, meaning for 88K to be correct for Taunton as at 2008, then the rest of Taunton Deane's population would have collapsed by 20K over the same period. 217.171.129.73 (talk) 19:47, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal

I propose merging Holway, Somerset into this article. As the article says it is now a suburb and is unlikely to get a significant article in its own right. Any thoughts?— Rod ^talk 18:08, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree with this proposal - Holway is very much "within" Taunton and wouldn't be out of place within the Taunton article.Squirrel684 (talk) 02:23, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks - I'd also propose that Staplegrove is merged into this.— Rod ^talk 17:45, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Agree with both proposals as both areas are contained within the urban area of Taunton (i.e. are not separated by any distance). --TimTay (talk) 18:04, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Mergers now completed.— Rod ^talk 10:38, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

I'd now like to propose merging in Comeytrowe and Galmington.— Rod ^talk 10:45, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

Just came across Galmington article, which has virtually no content except for unreferenced info on a youth football club. It is not a civil parish as it originally stated in the article, or even a borough ward, so it is unlikely that any statistics or boundaries can be defined. Merge it! Lozleader (talk) 22:39, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Just googled around for Comeytrowe and I think it may merit an article of its own: it is a civil parish (formed out of Trull in 1986), and a borough ward so there would at least be some stats available. Had a look at the parish boundaries at www.election-maps.co.uk and it turns out that Galmington (or some of it) is in Comeytrowe parish.. so maybe it should be merged with that instead??Lozleader (talk) 22:57, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Thanks I've merged Galmington into Comeytrowe & expanded it. Merger proposal banners removed.— Rod ^talk 11:43, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Notable people

Notable people from Taunton should be people who were born, lived or died in the town. In the case of two people previously listed in this section of the article this is not the case. Evelyn Waugh lived and died in Combe Florey and is mentioned in that article. Joe Strummer lived and died in Broomfield and is mentioned in that article. Neither of these settlements is part of Taunton. Both are nearby but the fact they are separate means it cannot be claimed that those people have any link with the town of Taunton. If anyone believes otherwise then please discuss here rather than add back to the article. --Simple Bob (talk) 20:45, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

What else is needed to get this article to GA?

I've been editing this article to try to bring it closer to the guidelines at WP:UKCITIES and would be interested in what other editors think is need to get it to meet the Wikipedia:Good article criteria? Obviously we need to expand the lead to summarise the article & reference (or remove) the uncited claims, but is there anything else which would be required?— Rod ^talk 09:36, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

pop culture

from my talk page:

I noticed your reversion of my edit to the Popular culture references of the Taunton article. I believe we will need to support the claims if the article is to be nominated for WP:GA. I haven't read Scoop or watched the Doctor Who episode The Shakespeare Code but would want some evidence that Taunton was mentioned. I have read So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish & don't remember Taunton being "featured" in it (which is the claim). How do we know Thomas Hardy renamed Taunton as Toneborough? or is this the interpretation of a reviewer? if so who & when? I know these seem picky but I would like to get the Taunton article up to GA before too long & these are the sorts of things reviewers pick up on.— Rod talk 17:37, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

i havent read Scoop either so cant comment and dont recall hearing taunton in the Dr Who episode mentioned. Taunton is certainly featured in Tinker, Tailor so should be reinserted. As for Hardy, this website sould provide more than enough info. http://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~bp10/wessex/index.shtml Dead-or-Red (talk) 18:36, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

I've put back the comment about Thomas Hardy with a reference to the site you suggested, but I think we would need references &/or page numbers for the other claims before they could go back in.— Rod ^talk 19:59, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Taunton/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: DharmaDreamer (talk) 12:26, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

   Reasonably well written and follows MoS, however Demography looks messy.

• I'm not sure how to improve the appearance if the tables are to stay?— Rod ^talk 14:08, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

1. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   As far as I can see no issue with Original Research and all source provided are reliable. However this is possibly inadequatly refferenced, I have tagged the places where citations are needed so the involved parties can adress the issue.

• References provided.— Rod ^talk 14:08, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

1. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

   No problem here, provides comprehnesive coverage on all relevent aspects of taunton,For the msot part doesn't veer off topic apart from when it randomly states in the economy section "Avimo became part of Thales Optics, however their manufacturing has been transferred along with a number of staff to Glasgow and Wells." What is avimo? does it have relevance to taunton? I have never been to the town so have no idea what this is on about.

• AVIMO explained & expanded with ref.— Rod ^talk 14:08, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

1. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

   No problems with NPOV as far as I can see.

2. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   Most recent edits seem minor, No major change in recent times. However there seems to have been a dispute about whether or not taunton is the biggest town in somerset, the issue seems to have settled.

3. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   Well illustrated, Images appropriatly tagged and with appropriate captions on article page.

4. Pass/Fail:

   Some minor issues to adress, very close to GA standard, mainly filling in missing citation, and sorting out demography and economyDharmaDreamer (talk) 13:09, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Notable people

I removed some people (Karoline Leach, Andy Mackay, Vanessa White & Phil Vickery) from the notable people section of this article as I could not find any references which link them to Taunton, apart from Vickery being the chef at a restaurant. Several had citation needed tags attached and one was "commented out". I also removed Antony Hewish who attended school in Taunton but has no other connection I could find. Some these have been reinserted, with the edit summary "these have refs linking them to taunton on their pages", although other wp pages do not provide reliable sources about their connection, and I think a discussion about who should be included & who shouldn't would be useful.— Rod ^talk 17:57, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Ugh. These "notable residents" sections are more trouble than they're worth IMHO. I believe I put a few of those {{fact}} tags on entries. If they are still there months later then I would delete them, as you did. If there are good refs on their WP articles they can be copied and pasted, if not then they should be removed. It is of course not up to us to go hunting for refs it is the responsibility of whoever put them there in the first place per WP:BURDEN. Lozleader (talk) 19:33, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Agree with both of you. No refs = no listing. Not our job to add the refs either - so if they aren't given the listing gets deleted. --Simple Bob (talk) 21:09, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

i reverted two, as both are referenced on their pages, but not here. i would have puthe refs on myself but i havent the know how.Dead-or-Red (talk) 22:00, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

As far as I can see from their articles none of the references support the linkage between the person and Taunton. For help with adding references see Wikipedia:Citing sources.— Rod ^talk 22:07, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

vickery: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/eating-out--fortress-of-new-english-food-the-castle-hotel-taunton-somerset-1431926.html white: http://www.thesaturdayscentral.org/vanessa-white/ Dead-or-Red (talk) 17:27, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

The reference for Vickery mentions that he is the head chef. If that was the claim in the article then I still don't think he belongs in the Taunton article - working there is not the same as being a resident of the town so other references should be given. However, that would be a good reference to put into the Castle Hotel article if it isn't already there. As for the second link - absolutely not!. WP:RS sets out what is an acceptable link as does WP:ELNO. Fansites are a big no - they are not reliable sources and often contain information gleaned from elsewhere e.g. WIkipedia. Put on Wikipedia that Mr Smith comes from Anytown and within weeks you can see websites quoting Mr Smith as a resident of anytown. Just Google for "norman wisdom wikipedia obituary" to see what I mean. --Simple Bob (talk) 18:04, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

how about http://www.mycelebrityfashion.co.uk/vanessa-white/ as for vickery, you cant deny his link with the town just google it and a huge number of pages come through. Dead-or-Red (talk) 21:26, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

mycelebrityfashion is not a reliable reference for White. The Vickery ITV reference looked like it would be OK, but I have removed it because my computer immediately flashed up that the site contained malware. Can somebody else check it from the diffs please? As for the way you added the references, that is not how it is done. Look at the examples in the rest of the article and the way the the <ref> and </ref> tags are used in conjunction with the {{cite web}} template. --Simple Bob (talk) 21:04, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Vickery ref checks out; link needs to lead to the chef's page, not the dab page though. I would add it back, but I've never heard of him, so wouldn't call him notable myself! Harrias ^talk 21:10, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

I wonder why my browser flagged it as a malware site? It might be the embedded ITV player, but then again I don't get a problem on sites like YouTube --Simple Bob (talk) 21:21, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Don't know: my computer is probably full of malware now! Harrias ^talk 21:41, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

i did say i didnt have the skill to add refs, so did the best i could. here is one for hewish http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1974/hewish-autobio.html so he will neeed to be put back in, as will vickery. Dead-or-Red (talk) 22:01, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Being educated at King's doesn't really make his a 'notable resident', he probably only stayed in Taunton during term time, leaving each holiday. I went to Warwick Uni (in Coventry), but if I ever became notable, I would expect to be listed under either Taunton or my home town in Cornwall; not Coventry! Harrias ^talk 22:20, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Agree. Hewish should be listed at King's College, Taunton but not in the main article. --Simple Bob (talk) 22:45, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

Should we get rid of arthur c clarke as well then?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.173.226.93 (talk) 00:58, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Correct. I removed him. Clarke attended Richard Huish, but was brought up on a farm near Bishops Lydeard / Ash Priors. --Simple Bob (talk) 08:49, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

I would like user Dead-or-Red to explain why he/she thinks two people who were educated in the town should be listed as notable residents when three editors (myself, Harrias and 94.173.226.93) seem to think that they don't belong. There is a precedent for this. At Weston-super-Mare for example, Roald Dahl was removed as he was educated in the town but actually lived in South Wales. --Simple Bob (talk) 21:19, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

As the person who started this thread (and rather wishes I hadn't) I think a clear and rational discussion of who should be included and who shouldn't would be useful at this point. I note the wider discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements#Notable people which cites the current WP:UKGEO guidance.

The people who seem to be contentious at present are:

• Arthur C Clarke
• Antony Hewish
• Phil Vickery

Although others such as

• Vanessa White
• Karoline Leach
• Andy Mackay

could also be considered in the debate.

The key issue seems to be whether those who have a limited connection to the town (such as attending school, or working for a short period of time) should be included. My thought would be that unless they have had a significant effect on the town they should not be included otherwise the article would become a massive list including everyone in Queen's College, Taunton#Notable Old Queenians, King's College, Taunton#Notable Old Aluredians and Taunton School#Notable alumni (many of which are unreferenced) in the main article. I also note in the guideline that this section should be prose rather than a list. Could some collaborative work come up with a consensus (and ultimately a better article)?— Rod ^talk 22:03, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

i agree with rodw, we need to decide who should and shouldnt be included first, then edit out individuals. as it stands double standards are rife. eg rhodes/vickery. Dead-or-Red (talk) 22:11, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

I am glad you have decided to engage in discussion instead of edit warring. So much more productive. Let me make my position clear - the section should be 100% referenced with reliable sources. The only people included should be those who were born in the town, who lived there for a significant period of time, or who worked in the town and made a notable contribution. I think this excludes school pupils and it also excludes the likes of Vickery and Rhodes who were simply chefs at a restaurant in the town - with no references showing that they lived in the town or made any other contribution. In all cases (schools, restaurants etc) it is perfectly valid to have those people mentioned (and properly cited) in the relevant articles because of the association they have with those establishments. --Simple Bob (talk) 22:18, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

I see I spoke to soon about Dead-or-Red's edit warring. One more time and I'm going to WP:ANI with your stubborn refusal to participate in a sensible discussion. --Simple Bob (talk) 22:21, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

A couple more - I don't think every person who has played cricket for Somerset should be listed. I can't see why Andrew Caddick is listed for example, but I can see why Marcus Trescothick is listed because of the award that he was given for his contribution to the town. --Simple Bob (talk) 22:25, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

I agree, the same rationale would also apply to Viv Richards, Rhodes and Vickery. All three worked in the town and general notability for their 'work' outside of the town. (Vickery and Rhodes for TV work and Caddick for his England duty).Harrias ^talk 17:22, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

i disagree on caddick, richards, rhodes and vickery, all became notable while resident, all are more notable than the likes of alleine, kinglake and shearer to name but 3. wikipedia should be a factual document, not one where a person is included/not included because of personal opinion on what is or isnt notable. Dead-or-Red (talk) 17:46, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

It is a factual document, but there has to be a decision on who is and isn't factual, otherwise anyone with a Wikipedia article who has been resident in Taunton would be on the list, and surely you can agree that would be silly. Harrias ^talk 18:49, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Outside view by Mjroots

I've come here via WP:ANI. I've recently been creating a few lists of people connected with various places in Kent. The approach I've taken is to group people by their connection. See List of people from Tonbridge for an example of this. IMHO, someone being educated at a school in the place in question means that they should be included in a section on notable residents (or list if there are enough people to to justify a separate list). Anyone who does not have an article is not sufficiently notable to be mentioned. If they are notable enough to have an article written about them, the article should be written first. I'm not saying that this approach must be adopted, but am putting forward this as an example for consideration. Mjroots (talk) 21:50, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Where did you draw the line though? Or do you truly aim to include everyone who has a Wikipedia article and is connected to such places?

Also; with regards to all these people born in Taunton (or whatever town it is): surely these people have to be shown to not only have been born in Taunton, but also grown up or been otherwise connected to the town. Taunton has a maternity ward: people from all over the area will be born in the town: I personally no connection to the town I was born in: it is just what is on my birth certificate and passport.Harrias ^talk 22:05, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Ah, the maternity hospital problem, Pembury is a small village with a large hospital which was developed from the former workhouse. Thus List of people from Pembury. If it is verified that a wikinotable person was born in a certain place, then it is justifiable to include them, even if they grew up elsewhere. Mjroots (talk) 22:10, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Draft alternative

OK this article has been protected for a few days so lets try and agree something here which everyone can live with (we will never get something that meets everyone's ideal), and once that is done transfer it into the article. At least any reverts and arguments will not be seen by the large group of readers who are uninvolved in the debate.

My suggestion would include (assuming all notable enough to have wp articles): anyone born in Taunton, those who lived for a large proportion of their lives in the town and those who contribution to the town has had a "significant impact" and I am aware that that is subjective. I would would like to avoid recentism which suggests that those alive today, and therefore currently better known, are more notable than those from previous centuries. I think each person should have a short sentence explaining why they are included.

--

Taunton has been the home or birthplace of several notable people. One of the earliest was the English Puritan Nonconformist pastor and author; Joseph Alleine (1634–1668) who was curate of St Mary Magdalene in the 1660s and is buried in the churchyard. In the early 19th century Alexander William Kinglake, who was born in 1809 at Wilton House near Taunton, went on to become a barrister, travel writer and historian. Two years later Taunton was the birthplace of Sir Charles Trevelyan who became a civil servant and the Governor of Madras. Later in the 19th century Alfred B. Mullett was born in the town and emigrated to the USA in his childhood before going on to become architect to Abraham Lincoln. Frederick Porter Wensley was born in Taunton in 1865 and later became chief constable of Scotland Yard CID.

In 1873 it was the birthplace of Hugh Trenchard who was instrumental in establishing the Royal Air Force. There are also several notable sports people from Taunton. Footballers include Colin Addison a former professional player and manager, who was born in Taunton on 8 May 1940 and Lee Martin who was born in Taunton 9 February 1987 and is under contract with for Ipswich Town F.C.. The former England Rugby union international and head coach who later became head coach of Scotland was born in Taunton in 1964. The cricketer Marcus Trescothick was given the Taunton Deane Citzenship Award in 2005. The arts are also represented with actors such as Pattie Boyd, Jenny Agutter and James Purefoy being born in Taunton in 1944, 1952 and 1964 respectively. Deborah Meaden the business mogul, philanthropist and star of T.V series Dragons Den was born in Taunton in 1959.

--

I have taken out those where I can't find reliable sources which illustrate their relevance to the town. I would be happy for others to copy the text above and edit it adding or removing as they see fit, including a reliable source & put it below with an explanation of their rationale for the changes they have made. I hope this contribution to the debate is useful.— Rod ^talk 21:54, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

My suggestion would be to create List of people from Taunton. As well as those mention in this article, there are almost certainly a good number of alumni from each of the schools that have an article. A useful practice is to make use of the "What links here" feature to discover all biographies that link in to the page in question. Checking those articles can often reveal further articles which aren't mentioned when they should be. Mjroots (talk) 22:02, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

• sigh* this is why such subjective lists shouldn't exist. Harrias ^talk 22:14, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

i dont like rodw's list, it doesnt read well and wouldnt be easy to edit/add to. so far mjroots seems to be talking sense to me. Dead-or-Red (talk) 22:17, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

An alternative is to list alphabetically by surname, such as List of people from Reading, Berkshire and List of people from Doncaster. Mjroots (talk) 22:24, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

If we take it out of the article & put it into a separate list then an alphabetical list would probably be OK eg List of people from Bath (which are often uncited and attract all sorts of vandals) but if it is to stay in the main article prose is recommended by both the WP:UKCITIES and Wikipedia:Good article criteria to avoid bulleted lists. If all the alumni of local schools & others who have some vague connection with Taunton are included in the main article it would overpower the rest of the article - as discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements#Notable people - the largest prose one I've done included in the article is at Glastonbury#Notable people. I think we must have some sort of criteria which filters out the hundreds of links into a small manageable number & I haven't seen anyone come up with that yet.— Rod ^talk 23:10, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Has anyone gone through Category:People from Taunton, Queen's College, Taunton#Notable Old Queenians, King's College, Taunton#Notable Old Aluredians and Taunton School#Notable alumni etc etc & seen how many are involved?— Rod ^talk 23:14, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I like rodw's draft of a prose version by the way; if we have to have such a section, this seems the best way of doing it. Have come up with a list of people from those categories: User:Harrias/Taunton people. 100 people exactly. Harrias ^talk 07:30, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

I've further populated Category:People from Taunton with a few Somerset cricketers that were born in the town, and it is now up to 118. I expect we've missed more than a few others too! Harrias ^talk 07:49, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Harrias, if you check the links in to each of the school articles, and the Taunton article, you may well find more people who are not categorised but should be. It's certainly looking as though there are enough people to justify a stand-alone list. Format to be decided amongst those who have been involved in this issue but you've got some examples to go on. Mjroots (talk) 08:52, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Further population has taken the total up to 161. This doesn't include people who weren't born in Taunton but lived or worked there in later life (Trescothick, Rhodes etc.) Harrias ^talk 11:26, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Population statistics

I note that the article has been updated with new population statistics in the lead claiming an estimated population (2011) of 110,200. However according to the ONS source given this is for the whole of Taunton Deane which is significantly more than the town of Taunton and its suburbs - including Wellington which itself has a population of around 15,000. This source from Somerset Intelligence also from 2011 census data is slightly more difficult to use but does give data by Electoral Ward including:

• Taunton Blackbrook and Holway - 6,457
• Taunton Eastgate - 4,734
• Taunton Fairwater - 6,321
• Taunton Halcon - 6,464
• Taunton Killams and Mountfield - 3,754
• Taunton Lyngford - 5,514
• Taunton Manor and Wilton - 5,394
• Taunton Pyrland and Rowbarton - 6,248

I think part of the difficulty is defining what should now be included in suburbs, but if we go with the text in the Demography section "The town of Taunton (which for population estimates includes the unparished area – or former municipal borough – plus the neighbouring parishes of Bishop's Hull, Comeytrowe, Norton Fitzwarren, Staplegrove, Trull and West Monkton)", This would also give:

• Bishops Hull - 3,910
• Comeytrowe - 5,729
• Norton Fitzwarren - 3,046
• Staplegrove - 4,004
• Trull - 2,072
• West Monkton - 4,304

Can we agree here what should be included to come up with a better figure than the total Taunton Deane figure currently used in the article?— Rod ^talk 09:25, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

This ONS page lists links to 14 wards coming under 'Taunton' within Taunton Deane. I don't know whether that helps (I haven't had time to study this in any detail). PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 10:55, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks.That would add in:

• Taunton Holway - 5,290
• Taunton Manor - 2,731
• Taunton Priory and Wilton - 5,136
• Taunton Pyrland -3,326
• Taunton Rowbarton - 3,667
• Taunton Trinity - 6,854

That would give a total figure for the Taunton electoral wards of 71,890 - which I think is the figure we should probably use in the lead. The six parish/suburbs listed above give 23,035 so if they count as suburbs than "Taunton and its suburbs" gives 94,925.— Rod ^talk 11:30, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

If it helps, ONS have a boundary viewer that lets you see the ward boundaries overlaid on a map. WaggersTALK 12:47, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

The simplest figure to use is that for the built-up area (64,621). The 71,890 figure is nonsense: The 14 wards are not 14 distinct areas, but two sets that each cover the town (before and after a major boundary changes). Census results for districts, wards, parishes, built-up areas etc here--Nilfanion (talk) 22:41, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

OK can you give a specific reference for the 64,621 figure as I'm not familiar with nomisweb and went to built up areas but couldn't find Taunton.— Rod ^talk 07:39, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

I am not sure how to get a direct permalink unfortunately. Two methods that work from the link I gave: Download -> Built-up areas, which gives a csv with the data for every BUA in the country. Alternatively, Wizard query -> Built-up areas -> Some -> Change East to South West -> Find Taunton and tick it -> Keep clicking next and select suitable output format. As an aside, the 2001 Urban Area was 58,241.--Nilfanion (talk) 11:43, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. Having done that I get this link which seems to be useable as a link for a ref to "KS101EW - Usual resident population Taunton BUA". If clicking the link works for others I will use it in the article... Then we may need to clarify and update the demography section.— Rod ^talk 19:57, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

That link didn't work so I've found another citable source for the same data and changed that in the lead - now what about the demography section...?— Rod ^talk 15:57, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

Advice

I am trying to add the link for the main tourism/destination site for Taunton (updating a dead link that existed) - I have been told I am spamming and this site is not an official one. It has been suggested I raise this in the forum to seek other editor views. Many thanks –——–— Preceding unsigned comment added by CaptainSomerset2014 (talk • contribs) 21:43, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for coming here for discussion about the addition of external links. For the information of others, this editor on 19 November added various external links including: www.visitsomerset.co.uk/taunton www.tauntontowncentre.co.uk and Taunton regeneration and replaced the deadlink to http://www.heartofsomerset.com. The same links were added to surrounding villages/suburbs. My welcome message pointed out some of the relevant policies:

• Policy on neutral point of view
• Guideline on spam
• Guideline on external links
• Guideline on conflict of interest
• FAQ for Organizations

I later added one about Single-purpose accounts. The editor informed me they are the council's marketing manager for Taunton Deane Borough Council. I asked them to bring it here for further discussion as I particularly dislike the one which just seems to promote shops. Do other editors feel that further external links whether "official" or otherwise should be added to the article?— Rod ^talk 08:44, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I know the above editor has formed his own opinion and will not be convinced otherwise, but if you look at the site it is no different to the destination websites listed in the external links section on the Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, Salisbury pages (to mention a few) on Wikipedia which is the official website about the area, what to see and do and not shops as he said so I continue to be puzzled by his decision. ————

As someone who lives in Taunton, I find the regeneration link useful, but that said, it is already included as a reference, and generally Wikipedia guidelines suggest that references should not be repeated as external links. On the other hand, it does provide useful information, so I'm a little torn. The visitsomerset website I don't particularly rate as an external link from an encyclopedia page. If it is considered Taunton "official website" then we should probably allow it as an external link, but otherwise, I don't see what it adds. Irrespective of both of these facts, as an administrator I would reiterate the fact that any form of biased promotion, which TDBC's marketing manager would definitely have regarding articles in the borough, is strongly frowned upon. Harrias ^talk 22:18, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

I appreciate your feedback and comments. I honestly didn't realise when I tried to update the dead link I had been informed of earlier this week by a member of the public that this would cause this debate. The only point that was missed is the fact that many other town pages (as I have checked) contain a similar link to their tourist information website hence I naively assumed this would be possible for Taunton, but possibly not in this instance. ————

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The West Country Challenge

Would you like to win up to £250 in Amazon vouchers for participating in The West Country Challenge?

The The West Country Challenge will take place from 8 to 28 August 2016. The idea is to create and improve articles about Bristol, Somerset, Devon, Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly, Dorset, Wiltshire and Gloucestershire, like this one.

The format will be based on Wales's successful Awaken the Dragon which saw over 1000 article improvements and creations and 65 GAs/FAs. As with the Dragon contest, the focus is more on improving core articles and breathing new life into those older stale articles and stubs which might otherwise not get edited in years. All contributions, including new articles, are welcome though.

Work on any of the items at:

• Core articles
• Missing article hotlist
• Missing photograph hotlist

or other articles relating to the area.

There will be sub contests focusing on particular areas:

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• Wiltshire (Day 19-21)

To sign up or get more information visit the contest pages at Wikipedia:WikiProject England/The West Country Challenge.— Rod ^talk 16:01, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

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• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110606223032/http://www.tauntondeane.gov.uk/irj/public/council/civicdignitaries/civicdignitarie?rid=%2Fguid%2F00be10cb-8c52-2c10-e0ac-fd8b99199cf8 to http://www.tauntondeane.gov.uk/irj/public/council/civicdignitaries/civicdignitarie?rid=%2Fguid%2F00be10cb-8c52-2c10-e0ac-fd8b99199cf8
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150924113505/http://www.tauntondeane.gov.uk/irj/go/km/docs/CouncilDocuments/TDBC/Documents/Heritage%20and%20Landscape/11127%20Silk%20Mills%20Local%20nature%20reserve%20Nov%202010.pdf to http://www.tauntondeane.gov.uk/irj/go/km/docs/CouncilDocuments/TDBC/Documents/Heritage%20and%20Landscape/11127%20Silk%20Mills%20Local%20nature%20reserve%20Nov%202010.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110723103505/http://cmsen.eghn.org/vivary-garten.html to http://cmsen.eghn.org/vivary-garten.html
• Replaced archive link https://web.archive.org/web/20090115220450/http://www.englandschristianheritage.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=63 with https://web.archive.org/web/20111005080139/http://www.englandschristianheritage.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=63 on http://www.englandschristianheritage.org.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=63
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120801081242/http://www.london2012.com/athlete/michel-ciara-1079071/ to http://www.london2012.com/athlete/michel-ciara-1079071/
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://archive.thisisthewestcountry.co.uk/2007/5/9/95083.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140103184107/http://somersetgateway.somerset.gov.uk/records/OrganisationRecord.jsp?display=31837&query=_type%3A%22Organisation%22%20AND%20%28%22Twin%20towns%20and%20villages%22%29&general=%22Twin+towns+and+villages%22&category=Search%20All&type=Organisation&hitsPerPage=10&doc=5&maxdoc=7&defaultor=false&defaultfield=_body&searchMode=quick to http://somersetgateway.somerset.gov.uk/records/OrganisationRecord.jsp?display=31837&query=_type:%22Organisation%22%20AND%20%28%22Twin%20towns%20and%20villages%22%29&general=%22Twin+towns+and+villages%22&category=Search%20All&type=Organisation&hitsPerPage=10&doc=5&maxdoc=7&defaultor=false&defaultfield=_body&searchMode=quick

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No cider?

I thought Taunton was all about cider apples. Only one passing mention of cider on this page, and that's under Popular Culture. What has happened to this long tradition? Valetude (talk) 21:59, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Taunton Cider closed in 1998. Morgenhund (talk) 21:42, 25 September 2022 (UTC)