Talk:Takahē

Comments From Class

The Takahē article is by far the most interesting of the articles that I have read on the Birds Project because of the nature and history of the bird species. It was an overall informative piece, detailing the resurgence and rediscovery of the near extinct bird. The content of the behavior section is somewhat lacking unfortunately. An example of this can be seen with the simple phrase, “It is territorial”, without any qualifying statements or examples to clarify the degree or motives for the observed behavior. An addition of feeding, mating, and survival behaviors would suffice and make the entry a more comprehensive and informative piece. At the tail-end of the entry is a gallery of images, representative of the Takahē in its natural habitat, or perhaps the habitat they were forced to inhabit on the brink of extinction. Different from the previous two articles, the talk and discussion tab holds nothing of significance, just a simple reiteration of a fact about the Takahē. Similar to the other articles, the tab also includes which projects the entry can be found under. Usually this entails the country in which the bird is a native of, but also the wiki bird project. This article is missing taxonomy and human relations. TKYung (talk) 19:48, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

article needs a lot of work

A lot of material has been added, a lot looks as though it was just copied from elsewhere, needs a lot of work. --Tony Wills (talk) 12:21, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Empty webpage in External Links section

Hello everyone. I've just this morning (Wednesday 25th October 2017) clicked on the link for the Internet Bird Collection to look for Takahe videos, but am sorry to report that the page appears to be empty. No videos, photos, or sound recordings anywhere. In addition, that website uses the binomial Porphyrio mantelli for the Takahe. Glums! RaynesParkGuy (talk) 10:35, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

Beginning improvement to Good Article status

Hi all, I've started work on this article, with the help of references and photos being supplied to me by the NZ Department of Conservation's Takahē Recovery Group. The goal is to update all the citations and expand the article to at least GA status (which it certainly deserves, covering as it does one of the most iconic and best-studied New Zealand birds). Assistance welcomed. I'll start a To Do list. One thing to note though: I suggest the article is moved to "Takahē" (with a redirect from "Takahe" of course), as that's the standard name it's known by in NZ and overseas. The North Island takahē Porphyrio mantelli is mostly known by its Latin name, or its Māori name moho. —Giantflightlessbirds (talk) 22:49, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

I've changed all the text with just takahe to takahē excluding references and the title. I would like the title to change too. Luke'n'Thomas (talk) 02:42, 24 March 2019 (UTC)

Hybrids?

Hello. Considering that South Island Takahē are rails (family Rallidae), members of the genus Porphyrio like the Australasian Swamphen or "Pukeko" (Porphyrio melanotus) with which they share New Zealand and are close relatives to each other, do any records of Takahē-Pukeko hybrids exist? are the two species able to hybridize? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2800:2121:3400:1C4:6CB5:7291:48E6:4574 (talk) 18:30, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

No. —Giantflightlessbirds (talk) 19:23, 28 January 2019 (UTC)

Map

The map seems to be out of date and may need replaced. At the very least, it does not include the breeding pair at the Orokonui Ecosanctuary. I am unsure whether much else is missing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.80.97.83 (talk) 23:21, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 14 April 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. There seems to be consensus that this species is the primary topic, assuming the articles are kept separate. Whether to merge the two articles is a separate discussion. (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 03:58, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

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South Island takahē → Takahē – This bird is almost exclusively known as the Takahē (ie. without the South Island), easily satisfying the requirements of WP:COMMONNAME. This includes by government agencies, multiple conservation groups and NGOs, documentaries, multiple local companies, various magazines, and nearly every single media reference to the birds online – not to mention the dozens of journal articles. I also note that the naming conventions for birds state that Wikipedia bird article titles may diverge from the IOC list when the most common name in reliable sources is different from the IOC name, which is clearly the case in this instance. I've tried to make this move myself as I saw it as uncontroversial, but as that's been reverted I'm taking out a proper move request. I also propose deleting the content currently at Takahē per WP:TWODAB and per the below proposal to explain through text.Edited 06:28, 14 April 2022 (UTC) to detail change to target article. — Turnagra (talk) Turnagra (talk) 00:54, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Courtesy ping to User:Pvmoutside who may want to engage given the recent reversion. Turnagra (talk) 00:55, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

there was also a north island takahe, just calling it takahe implies only one speciesPvmoutside (talk) 00:59, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

I get that - apologies, I meant to cover that in the move request. While the North Island Takahē was a thing, that doesn't sidestep the fact that anyone looking for this bird is almost certainly looking for a Takahē, and anyone looking for the Takahē is almost certainly looking for the South Island Takahē. We can cover the distinction sufficiently in the article, but I don't think this is reason enough to not have the article at the common name. Turnagra (talk) 01:05, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

• Support. Moving the article name to just takahe satisfies the requirements of WP:COMMONNAME and is clearly simpler. The former existence of a North Island takahe can easily be covered in the narrative of the article.Marshelec (talk) 03:13, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
• Support The South Island bird is the primary topic and a hatnote to the North Island cousin is all that’s needed. Schwede66 09:45, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
• Support move, with Schwede's solution. I don't much like the idea of rolling a different species (i.e. the North Island takahe) into the South Island takahe article. MeegsC (talk) 12:31, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
• Weak support - but keep the two species separate. FunkMonk (talk) 13:02, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Disagree. There are two different Takahe species and we need to be clear which one we are talking about. If it's true that most people are looking for the South Island Takahe, then a redirect can be added to the South Island Takahe page, with a disambiguation page linked. Aythya affinis (talk) 13:25, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose. Takahē is ambiguous as it refers to two currently recognised species. Many of those Google scholar articles are on Porphyrio mantelli (e.g. here and here), which is now used for the extinct northern species as that is where the type species was found. Others use Takahē for birds of both islands (e.g. here). The New Zealand Threat Classification System (NZTCS) uses South Island takahē (link), as do most international authorities that recognise the two species. —  Jts1882 | talk  13:47, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

  Agree.Aythya affinis (talk) 14:14, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

  At the time of your articles, both species were referred to as P. mantelli, with the differences instead being classified as subspecies. It wasn't until 1996 where they were officially split out into P. mantelli and P. hochstetteri. The two articles you linked don't exclusively talk about the North Island species, and describe at great length the presence and distribution of the bird in the South. Turnagra (talk) 19:56, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

That's my point. When there was only one recognised species it was referred to as the Takahē. Now there are two species they are both referes to as takahēs and have two different names for the species. One of those articles specifically refers to two takahē in the title. People may use shorthand for the southern species, but this is no different from using robin for European robin or magpie for Eurasian magpie when its the only type found locally. When disambiguation is required, as in a global encyclopaedia, the full name should be used. The title needss to be unambiguous (see WP:PRECISION under WP:COMMONNAME). —  Jts1882 | talk  08:55, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

• Support: Per Schwede. Clear primary topic. I would also weakly support merging the North Island article into this article. --Spekkios (talk) 21:56, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
• Support - which I wouldn't normally with species articles that share a base common name; generally we are better off distinguishing these by explicit article naming. But in this case the other one is a paleospecies stub, and I do think it makes sense to merge that into the present article, in which case nothing is lost from moving the result to the simpler Takahē. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 06:33, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
• Support. Also support merge per Elmidae and Spekkios. Still support rename though. YorkshireExpat (talk) 10:21, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
  • question:if the articles are merged, then does the taxonomic status go away? I.e. Endangered, and the other extinct, since the article would cite both species?Pvmoutside (talk) 01:09, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
    • @Pvmoutside: you know what, I'm beginning to question it too now. I still support the move on WP:COMMONNAME grounds, but maybe with a hatnote to the North Island species and no merge. YorkshireExpat (talk) 07:28, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

      For what it's worth, I'm also opposed to a merge but still in favour of the move (obviously!) Turnagra (talk) 08:06, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Kākā which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 16:32, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia Ambassador Program course assignment

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