Talk:Switzerland

Designation of capital city in the infobox

Hello all- I noticed that in the infobox, Switzerland's capital was presented as a two-line list, the first line reading "None (de jure)", and the second "Bern (de facto)". Initially I just wanted to nix the italics, as both terms are part of the English lexicon and needn't be treated as foreign words. But I found the presentation to be awkward, and the "None" to be unnecessary due to the "de facto", especially as the latter had a pop-up/tool-tip note, so I deleted the "None (de jure)" altogether. 1AmNobody24 reverted my edit, with this edit summary: I disagree with your changes. It's not unnecessary, The capital is normally designated by law and in Switzerland it isn't. This is fact, so your change is wrong. If you disagree, take it to the talk page. So here I am. Disagreement notwithstanding, my change was not "wrong", though I can see where some readers might not see the "None" as redundant. For the moment, I have removed the italics again. Eric ^talk 14:59, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

This has been discussed several times before. See this comment. If you want to learn more about it, see here. None (de jure) is accurate. Nobody (talk) 15:30, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

I neither stated nor implied that it was inaccurate. Thanks for the link to the January 2022 discussion, I wondered if the topic had been discussed before. I now see that it has been a couple times. The anonymous IP editor makes good points, as does Zhantongz, in what looks to be the final comment there. Worth noting that the AHD and the Cambridge Dictionary give seat or center of government as their primary definitions of the word capital. Eric ^talk 16:14, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Perhaps Capital of Switzerland could be expanded into a full explanation of the situation? Furius (talk) 17:16, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

The Capital of a country is decided by its government, no one else. Using descriptions from dictionaries to determine what the Capital is would be original research. There are sources that explain why, in 1848, they didn't decide on a capital per law (de jure). [2] in the article is one. This also explains it. Nobody (talk) 18:04, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

No one is trying to claim otherwise, no one is trying to "decide" what Bern's status is, so admonitions regarding "original research" are irrelevant here. I posted the links to the dictionary entries for edification, nothing else. Those entries explain how speakers of the English language employ the term capital, regardless of what anyone might assert a city's official legal status to be. No one is trying to override the Swiss constitution by citing a dictionary. Eric ^talk 21:51, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

So you tried to change the accurate description of the situation to a less accurate one, because you found it awkward and unnecessary? Makes no sense to me. Nobody (talk) 19:07, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Strictly speaking "none (de jure)" is not redundant, since the de jure situation could be that some other place was the capital (as with Palestine and Montserrat). On the other hand, I note that in the cases of Taiwan, Portugal and Canton of Zürich, which are exactly analogous to that of Switzerland, we consider a note explaining the situation to be sufficient. Furius (talk) 20:48, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

@Furius: Thanks for the input. @1AmNobody24: No need to tell us you are having trouble making sense of things. Eric ^talk 22:01, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

If you can't explain your edit better, then you don't have to start being condescending. Nobody (talk) 08:33, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

The rationale for @Eric's edit has been very clear: saying "Bern (defacto)" already implies that the "dejure" situation is different, so there is no need to specifically state that. None of your comments have really engaged with this. I raised the obvious objection in my comment, but, as I note, the counterargument to that objection is that in many identical cases we don't include "none (de jure)". (and past discussions have found that even the Swiss government is far from clear on the matter) Furius (talk) 10:50, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I see what you mean. I agree it could be moved to the note with an explanation. But I don't know know what kind of consensus would be needed for this / How big of a discussion. Nobody (talk) 11:07, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

I think that in English Wikipedia, the ordinary definition of English words should be used, unless a relevant context requires otherwise. Swiss government has also referred to Bern as its capital from time to time, though not in legal texts. From my point of view, there is no reason why Ottawa is the capital (without note) of Canada but Bern is only the de facto capital when both countries' laws specify the "seat of government" and not "capital". Canada does have a National Capital Region legally defined, but NCR is not Ottawa: Ottawa does not include all parts of NCR and NCR does not include all of Ottawa's municipal boundary. Or as I noted before, Paris and London lack even the seat of government designation.

The Swiss situation is interesting, but I stand by my old comment that such situation is not that unusual to warrant special treatment in Infobox and it seems like a Swiss "exceptionalism" to specify it that way. Going strictly by legal text would result in a lot more countries having a note contrary to the usual understanding on how the English word "capital" is used and recognized by people and government. Zhantongz (talk) 12:47, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 March 2024

Albert Einstein is not Swiss, but he is listed in this article as being a Swiss scientist. The link to his page clearly shows that he was born in Ulm, Germany. 76.75.11.234 (talk) 03:38, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Einstein was a Swiss citizen from 1901, which is why he is listed as a Swiss scientist. If you still believe he shouldn't be, you may wish to attempt to form a consensus before re-opening the request. Irltoad (talk) 08:50, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 April 2024

According to Council of Europe, around 30,000 Romani people live in Switzerland. Add this information to the demographics section.

Source: https://minorityrights.org/country/switzerland/ 174.243.152.88 (talk) 17:50, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Charliehdb (talk) 10:00, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Hostels Rotan01 (talk) 06:52, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Official German name without 'ß'

In modern Swiss Standard German there is no 'ß', they use 'ss' instead. Please change it in the top infobox. 2A04:EE41:6:CBB2:378C:A9B1:55:DFE5 (talk) 06:09, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Right. Done. --Sapphorain (talk) 21:55, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Funnily enough, given that the "o" in "Genossenschaft" is short, there should never have been a sharp s to begin with, even in German Standard High German. Trigaranus (talk) 06:05, 26 September 2024 (UTC) -- Apparently, the guy who added the silly letter has since had his account blocked. Go figure. (And yes, it's a slow news day here.) Trigaranus (talk) 06:11, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

Government infobox

I added the "with elements of direct democracy" because I think it should be noted there like it is in the Lichtenstein government infobox. ErickTheMerrick (talk) 01:52, 20 November 2024 (UTC)