Talk:Sustainable city

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Proposed merge discussion

Note: This discussion has been moved from Talk:Article 1, where it was incorrectly located. Some comments have been deleted which related to other incorrectly located merge discussions.

There are actually three articles with similar content - Ecocities, Ecopolis, and Sustainable city. It seems that the three terms are synonyms. I suggest a merging of the three articles into Sustainable City, which seems to be the most frequently used term. josei (talk) —Preceding comment was added at 14:09, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

• Support. We actually appear to have five pages on more or less the same topic. Lets merge them all. DWaterson (talk) 01:41, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

• Partial support: Hey there, nice to see the pages are finally being merged (I was thinking about it since quite some time before I finally had the energy to start making the article up myself). I would however strongly oppose to merge ecovillage into this sustainable city-article. The reason is that an ecocity is an entire city working ecofriendly and ecomunicipality/ecovillage is only a smaller 'neighbourhood'. I already proposed a move of ecovillage to "Sustainable neighbourhood". Ecomunicipality might be merged with this new Sustainable neighbourhood-article KVDP (talk) 08:59, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

• NO, NO, NO I don't support the merge of eco-municipality with any other term...specifically 'sustainable neighborhood', which I've never heard of or 'sustainable city.' The term eco-municipality refers to government actions around sustainability, not designed or preplanned urban or 'eco-village' types of developments. You can check out the Wisconsin Chapter of the APA for a definition. Reading these suggested merged articles they don't seem similar at all. Just because eco-municipalities is a stub article, doesn't need it should be merged. The reason there are different terms is because they have different meanings and merging them can muddle up the distinctions. --Ryandwayne (talk) 01:10, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Like Ryandwayne, I cannot support the merger of "eco-municipality" with any of the other terms. Eco-municipality is a well-recognized and distinct term. I would have no problem seeing "sustainable neighbourhood" become a redirect to eco-municipality. Sunray (talk) 22:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Likewise, "ecovillage" is definitely a stand-alone article. The concept is very well defined. There is a worldwide network[1] and even an audit tool to determine whether folks who espouse the term are on track. Sunray (talk) 23:08, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

• Support. "Sustainable city" has been merged with "ecopolis" and "ecocity," and that makes sense to me. These latter three terms are all vague concepts at present [2] and subject to manipulation by folks in the development industry. There is a case to be made that "sustainable city" is an oxymoron (because of the scale of the energy sink a city represents—all that pavement will be unsustainable well into the future). However, "sustainable city" is the most often used (if, at times, misused) of the three terms (based on number of Google hits). Sunray (talk) 22:57, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Further to the above, I think that the way the articles now stand is appropriate:

1. The Sustainable city article includes the terms "ecocity" and "ecopolis" both of which terms are redirected to it.
2. The Eco municipalities article includes the term "eco-town" which is redirected to it.
3. The Ecovillage article has a redirect from "Sustainable neighbourhood."

I've moved the "Eco municipalities" article to "Eco-municipality to respect WP naming conventions. Sunray (talk) 03:25, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Draft article now moved

I have moved the draft article that was here to Talk:Sustainable city/draft. It does not belong on a talk page. -- Alan Liefting-talk- 09:49, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Re-creation of ecocity article

Olimacfan Re-created a separate article on "Ecocity." Perhaps he was unaware of the discussion here. I've changed "Ecocity" back into a redirect to "Sustainable city." The text was moved here for discussion. Do we need to reconsider the above decision and re-establish an article on "Ecocity"? Or alternatively, is there text that needs to be incorporated into the "Sustainable city" article.15 February 2008 User:Sunray

Discussion: Ecocity

Note: The text of the ecocity article has been moved to: Talk:Sustainable city/draft

In reading the text proposed, I note that the it needs work to be incorporated into a Wikipedia article. The first thing that strikes me is that there are few citations, thus, to stand as an article, or part of an article, reliable sources need to be added. It also needs to be wikified. That having been said, I think that there is good material here that should be combined with this article. In sum: retain redirect for "Ecocity"; incorporate this text into "Sustainable city." Sunray (talk) 16:46, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Google searches show that while both terms are used, Sustainable city is more common, with 137,000 hits to 93,400 for Ecocity. Sunray (talk) 17:05, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to suggest that we remove the redirect from Ecocity to Sustainable City after some wikifying has been completed. Ecocities can be considered a subset of sustainable cities, but I believe warrant their own Wikipedia entry due to a unique methodology that places the city in it's natural environmental context. Ecocities are more than "sustainable" in that they seek to return underutilized land (suburbs, freeways, etc.) to nature. As such, they incorporate deconstruction (or revitalizing nature) as much as construction. There is a fairly rich literature base on the topic and growing use of the term in the construction of new cities in Asia and the Pacific. --Olimacfan (talk) 21:54, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Ecocity redirects to this article right now. That was the proposal by josei and after some discussion and agreement, someone went ahead with that. You then recreated the "Ecocity" article and wrote the text that I've since moved here (I put Ecocity back to a redirect).

So we are discussing the merit of a separate article for "Ecocity." You make the case that building an Ecocity implies particular principles and actions, whereas, calling something a "sustainable city," may not. That sounds like the argument that Ryandwayne and I made (above) with respect to "Ecovillages" and "Eco-municipalities." While clearly ecovillages are a distinct entity, I've been editing the "eco-municipality" article and realize that, while many of its advocates argue that it is unique (because the municipality adopts certain principles in its charter), in reality it is very hard to distinguish an eco-municipality from an ecocity. And, of course, the media fail to make the distinction at all. That's where I'm at. I'm not married to any one approach, so let's work it out here. Could you elaborate on your phrase "more than sustainable"? Sunray (talk) 22:11, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

If it's decided not to use significant portions of the article pasted above, if it's not suitable for Wikipedia, could someone please either move it to Appropedia, or leave a note for me and I'll do it. It's good content, but I don't think much of it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria. --Chriswaterguy talk —Preceding comment was added at 02:06, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I think that the material is very good and would like to see it in an article. The first task would be to get some citations for it. I am willing to work on that. Anyone else? Sunray (talk) 19:35, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

I would add that much of it has already been wikified, so it is citations that are the primary need, right now. Sunray (talk) 19:38, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

The more I look at the literature and think about the question of sustainability as applied to cities, the more I think that this should be a stand-alone article. Olimacfan's point about the difference between existing cities who espouse sustainability vs. cities that are built according to principles of sustainability is a good one. Would you assist with citations? Unless folks object, I will re-establish it as a separate article. Sunray (talk) 23:04, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

Curitiba should not be cited as an example of a sustainable city

Curitiba is not an example of a sustainable city. Its citation in this context degrades the concept. Curitiba has a very interesting, innovative, bus service. In terms of sustainability that is about all. Its status as a sustainable city results, for the most part, from the fact that it has, for many years, had a well structured, effective, planning department. This sets it far apart from many other large Brazilian cities which, for the most part, are notorious for their total lack of planning for anything, let alone sustainability. Curitiba is, by most standards, a well run city (some Curitibanos may disagree, but I will leave further comment up to them), but it is no more sustainable than thousands of other cities around the world, and as such does not merit mention here. We need to set our sights much, much, higher. I speak with the authority of one who has lived in Brazil for nearly 15 years and knows virtually all the major cities in Brazil, including Curitiba. 201.36.73.178 (talk) 20:47, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that examples listed here are all cities which are currently not sustainable, but which have elements that point towards sustainability. While some small towns or villages may be considered sustainable, I doubt if any place called a "city" qualifies as sustainable at this time. If reliable sources have cited Curitiba as an example of good city planning which incorporates elements of sustainability, it should stay. If there is an established, scientific measure for how sustainable a city is, it would be a great addition to the article to have such measurements noted here. (how about it, student editors?)Mercurywoodrose (talk) 03:15, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

The definition for sustainable city is loosely defined. There is ecologically sustainable, economically sustainable and developmentally sustainable. I work in the field of measuring ecological sustainability of cities. As Mercurywoodrose accurately points out there are no sustainable cities; Our measurements will achieve a minimum criteria for sustainability at some point in the near future but no one to date has enough credible data to determine it yet. Mkevlar 17:33, 15 January 2016 EST

Improvement of page by school project (11/2011)

Contributors include:

• 67.194.9.1 (talk)
• Kbeharry (talk)
• bfrazer2008 (talk)

Portuquês

La foule se presse sur les quais de Londres en ce matin de l’ an 1607, Car le Susan Constant va appareiller pour le Nouveau Monde. «Regarde! Voici le capitaine John Smith! » lance Thomas à son ami. De l’autre côté de l’Océan, le chef indien Powhatan retrouve Pocahontas, sa filli, aprés une longue absence. «j’ai une nouvelle inportante, annonce-t-il. Tu épouseras bientôt Kocoum,mon guerrier le plus brave!» Bouleversée, Pocahontas court se réfugier auprès de Grand-mère Feuillage,un vieux saule penché au bord de la rivière. Un visage de femme se dessine alors sur le tronc.«Écoute avec ton coeur et tu sauras quelle est ta voie! » lui conseille l’apparition. Un jour, Pocahotas aperçoit les voiles du navire, le gouverneur Ratcliffe ordonne à John Smith: «Faites en sorte que les Indiens ne nous dérangent pás ou sinon débarrassez-vous d’eux! » Sitôt débarqués, les pionniers se mettent à chercher de l’or. Le gouverneur Ratcliffe brandit son pistolet en conquérant. «Au nom du roi d’Angleterre — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.8.19.221 (talk) 16:42, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Português

La foule se presse sur les quais de Londres en ce matin de l’ an 1607, Car le Susan Constant va appareiller pour le Nouveau Monde. «Regarde! Voici le capitaine John Smith! » lance Thomas à son ami. De l’autre côté de l’Océan, le chef indien Powhatan retrouve Pocahontas, sa filli, aprés une longue absence. «j’ai une nouvelle inportante, annonce-t-il. Tu épouseras bientôt Kocoum,mon guerrier le plus brave!» Bouleversée, Pocahontas court se réfugier auprès de Grand-mère Feuillage,un vieux saule penché au bord de la rivière. Un visage de femme se dessine alors sur le tronc.«Écoute avec ton coeur et tu sauras quelle est ta voie! » lui conseille l’apparition. Un jour, Pocahotas aperçoit les voiles du navire, le gouverneur Ratcliffe ordonne à John Smith: «Faites en sorte que les Indiens ne nous dérangent pás ou sinon débarrassez-vous d’eux! » Sitôt débarqués, les pionniers se mettent à chercher de l’or. Le gouverneur Ratcliffe brandit son pistolet en conquérant. «Au nom du roi d’Angleterre — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.8.19.221 (talk) 16:44, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Português

La foule se presse sur les quais de Londres en ce matin de l’ an 1607, Car le Susan Constant va appareiller pour le Nouveau Monde. «Regarde! Voici le capitaine John Smith! » lance Thomas à son ami. De l’autre côté de l’Océan, le chef indien Powhatan retrouve Pocahontas, sa filli, aprés une longue absence. «j’ai une nouvelle inportante, annonce-t-il. Tu épouseras bientôt Kocoum,mon guerrier le plus brave!» Bouleversée, Pocahontas court se réfugier auprès de Grand-mère Feuillage,un vieux saule penché au bord de la rivière. Un visage de femme se dessine alors sur le tronc.«Écoute avec ton coeur et tu sauras quelle est ta voie! » lui conseille l’apparition. Un jour, Pocahotas aperçoit les voiles du navire, le gouverneur Ratcliffe ordonne à John Smith: «Faites en sorte que les Indiens ne nous dérangent pás ou sinon débarrassez-vous d’eux! » Sitôt débarqués, les pionniers se mettent à chercher de l’or. Le gouverneur Ratcliffe brandit son pistolet en conquérant. «Au nom du roi d’Angleterre — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.8.19.221 (talk) 16:48, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

unreferenced sections

Of the approximately 30 examples given in the International Examples section, over 20 of them are unsupported by references. if they do not get sourced, they will have to be removed. DGG ( talk ) 10:37, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

problems with neutrality

This article does not meet Wikipedia's standard for neutrality, in that the third paragraph makes wide-ranging claims regarding the desirability of urban living, but provides no supporting references. As such, these claims amount to opinions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Elektronen (talk • contribs) 04:55, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

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LOL you used .COM instead of .org the URL is https://www.theclimategroup.org/, TheKevlar 15:40, 30 December 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mkevlar (talk • contribs)

Added Social Equity Section - School Project

Hello everyone, I want to address the additions/edits I made to this article for my semester project. To start, I made several simple corrections to citation format. Specifically, I made sure all the superscript endnotes were placed at the end of each sentence, after the period. I also reworded the beginning of the article, changing the introductory sentence from "Sustainable cities, urban sustainability, or eco-city (also ecocity)" to "The sustainable city, eco-city, or green city." Making all the nouns singular and include the word "city" makes the opening sentence simpler for readers to process, and ensures it includes the article's title, "Sustainable city."

The main contribution I made was adding the section on "Social Equity," with the two subsections on "Gender" and "Race and Income." The page previously did not contain any references to marginalized/vulnerable groups such as women, racial and ethnic minorities, and/or low- and middle-income communities (apart from one mention of "social equity" in the transportation section). The climate crisis is and will disproportionately impact these groups, as many of them live in at-risk areas and lack the social and financial capital necessary to adapt to climate change. We, therefore, must plan the sustainable cities of the future with the needs of these groups in mind.

Both subsections focus on the historic structures in urban planning that helped shape current inequalities in risk to environmental threats. I included this overview to present how we got here and to establish why we need sustainable cities, and equitable ones. I did not go into what technologies/designs/concepts can be implemented to address these systemic inequities because many of the concepts are discussed in other sections of the article, and my time to edit was limited. I ended each subsection with a list of Wiki-linked minority and female leaders in the sustainable city movement whom readers can look up if they so wish.

Thank you to Keith B for correcting two missing dates in my citations. Please feel free to let me know what you think of the changes/additions I made and to, of course, contribute to the section yourself. Ally RH (talk) 22:50, 10 December 2021 (UTC) Ally R-H

Comment from the U.K.

I can only say that the claims made in the British section are complete nonsense. Macdonald-ross (talk) 20:00, 24 May 2022 (UTC)

Focus on US only, unsupported claims violating NPOV.

Apart from the countries section, the article seems to be just about the US. Also the article says "Men and women experience the built environment differently" which is completely unsupported and untrue. It also uses the words "is unjust" which is not a fact and is uses dramatic language.Krystal Kalb (talk) 03:30, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

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