Talk:Siskiyou Trail

Mexico and the HBC

Although the 42nd parallel (today the boundary between California and Oregon) marked the northern border of Mexican California, the Mexicans knew little about the interior and the HBC trappers ranged south at will.[1]

I think, but I'm not sure, that the HBC had a deal with the Mexican (and previously Spanish?) government concerning their trade activity and posts in California - which is how t hey got their post at Yerba Buena legal and not messed with by the Mexican/Spanish governate at....Monterey? (sorry don't know early Cali history well, if that's wrong). if I come across something about this in early fur trade histories I'm reading of late I'll be back with info/cites on any HBC-Mexico/Spanish agreement. BTW I'm gathering it's an American convention to use "trappers" for these HBC exploration parties; while some were engaged in trapping - usually based at a post, not while roaming - most of their activity was trading; it's odd to hear the high-ranking Peter Skene Ogden referred to as a "trapper", considering "trader" is a rank within the HBC and he was in fact a Chief Trader, which is only under Chief Factor in the company's scheme of things, at least within a single fur district. These also were not like American trappers/mountain men, but really expedition parties ("brigades") of many men and horses, not "one against the wilderness" . Small parties of two and three were out there, and maybe in the course of creating the infamous "fur desert" they ranged far just planting traps without intention of collecting the fur, i.e. to reduce fur-bearing animal populations....anyway "trader" is a more apt term when it comes to guys like Ogden.....Skookum1 (talk) 16:19, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

There's a big long section on this in that Mackie book. The HBC did eventually made legal arrangements with the Mexican government, but not for some years. Also the "Southern Party" was like the "Snake Party" -- it was an annual party of HBC employees who did the trapping themselves. It was a fairly major operation as I understand. I' write more but gotta run! Pfly (talk) 16:45, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

On Ogden, you've got something there I think. I don't know a great deal about the guy. But he was definitely in charge of quite a number of large and strategically important expeditions over the years, mostly, I think, the Snake Party and the Southern (Siskiyou) Party. But then neither of these annual expeditions were much concerned with trade, apparently. They were going the trapping themselves (perhaps not Ogden personally so much, but his people). There was an exploration aspect too, but not much trading if I have it right. The Yerba Buena post at SF Bay was, I think, less about furs and more about selling salmon and lumber. But I'd have to check and once again have to run, ack! Pfly (talk) 23:53, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

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