Talk:Simon Girty

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This article white washes Simon Girty too much. --Blue Tie 03:17, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

That depends entirely which side you're on. Many Native-Americans ("Indians") might well consider him a hero -- like the way we Americans and English view those Germans who turned against Hitler during World War II. (71.22.47.232 (talk) 07:07, 4 November 2010 (UTC))

Simon Girty was a Hero.

A brother named George

I'd like somebody to substantiate the folklore that Simon Girty had a brother George that had a trading post on Girty's Island*, which is on the Maumee River in present-day Henry County, Ohio. Legend has it that the island was guarded by a brass cannon at its eastern end and Simon hid on the island while being pursued.

• Latitude 41.3289380, Longitude -84.1538347

Musicwriter (talk) 01:52, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Simon Girty had a brother named George, but it was his brother James Girty who had the trading post near (not on) Girty's Island, according to Butterfield's History of the Girtys. Butterfield's book is old, but he was a careful historian, more skeptical of folklore than other writers of his era. I don't think Butterfield says anything about a cannon on the island or Simon hiding there. How effective would a single cannon be in defending an island? Sounds like it could be a fanciful legend. —Kevin Myers 04:07, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Simon Girty appears in several of the "Founding of America" books by Allen Ekhart. It is mentioned that Simon had several brothers that were active on the frontier. This author gives Simon Girty a fairly un-biased treatment. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.81.132.38 (talk) 03:14, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

explanation

I reverted five questionable edits from an anonymous WP:SPA. SPA seems to be editorializing, hiding behind anonymity, both here, and elsewhere. Geo Swan (talk) 19:31, 12 May 2018 (UTC)

Problems with a source

I have move this paragraph to the talk page for discussion.

Girty was present during the ritual torture and execution of Continental Army Colonel William Crawford by Captain Pipe. Two American witnesses of this torture and execution survived and were later interviewed regarding these events. One suggested that Girty was a pitiless instigator. The other claimed that Girty pleaded with the Indians on Crawford's behalf until threatened with death himself. The former account was popularized and served to vilify Girty during and after his lifetime. Later historians have understood that such ritual torture was part of Lenape practice for warriors.

References

The Hatcher reference that is given is a problem because elsewhere in the article (in the section "Representation in culture"

"Simon Girty the historical figure is portrayed as clever yet sadistic in Harlan Hatcher's book "Lake Erie"."

Either the book is not a Wikipedia reliable and can not be used as a citation to support this paragraph, or the sentence in green is a WP:POV entry because if it is a history book and the sentence is an editors opinion on the contents of a reference. One of the other needs to go. If the paragraph is to be kept than all the facts in the remainder of the paragraph from "Two American ..." to "...warriors" needs a reliable source as a citation (see WP:BURDEN. -- PBS (talk) 19:47, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Murder and torture

Greetings Wikipedians! This article as I found it describes in great and gruesome detail Girty's involvement in the torture and murder of Col. Crawford. But much later, in "Representation in Culture", we have a statement that 20th-century historians have questioned Breckinridge's account of that incident. Out of a sense of fairness, that should be pointed out in the section "Murder and Torture..." and Girty's involvement should be characterized as "alleged." I've made those changes today. I also deleted the text that said Girty's Indian band killed Fontaine. I read the Dec. 20, 1790 news story cited and it does not support that statement. Cordially, BuzzWeiser196 (talk) 20:54, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

1782 British-Indian Council

This section has been deleted due to factual inaccuracies, lack of citations, and uncertain relevance. As a British Indian Department interpreter, Girty would have attended most councils in the Detroit area during the Revolutionary War.

Here is the original text:

Early in August 1782 a grand council was convened, being led by "white murderers Col Alexander McKee and Simon Girty." The council summoned warriors from the Cherokee, Wyandott, Ottawa, Pottawatomie, Shawnee, Mingo and others. Simon Girty was the elected chief of the Mingo tribe. It was after his speech that Major Caldwell, the British Commandant at Detroit, invited Girty to further assist the British cause against the Americans.

The council was held in July not August. The quote is unreferenced. Major Arent DePeyster of the 8th Regiment of Foot commanded at Detroit, not William Caldwell who was a Captain in Butler's Rangers. Girty was an interpreter not the elected chief of the Mingo. His status as an interpreter did not change as a result of this council.

The multiple issues template has been added. The article as a whole has many issues including numerous factual inaccuracies, the lack of citations, the use of unreliable sources, irrelevant references to popular culture, and at least one section that does not reflect Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy. A major overhaul is required. Griffin's Sword (talk) 15:08, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

• User:Griffin'sSword: I agree that a major overhaul is needed. I'm in the middle of a project to do just that and will be happy to work with you on same. Cordially, BuzzWeiser196 (talk) 17:53, 3 November 2024 (UTC)

  @BuzzWeiser196: I'm currently working on revising the Representation in culture section. I also intend to delete a few of the more egregious errors from the article, e.g., Simon Girty's mother was not "scalped and murdered," Simon was not at the 1777 Siege of Fort Henry, and he did not command or live with a Miami tribe in 1794. I will leave any other changes to you. Griffin's Sword (talk) 20:32, 3 November 2024 (UTC)