Talk:Sea otter

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Scent Glands y/n?

Right in "Evolutions" section it says that sea otters have no anal scent glands. In "Predators" section, it says that predators avoid the sea otters because of scent glands.

Can there be clarification on where the scent glands are, that the predators are avoiding, because it probably isn't the anal scent glands? Thanks!

192.33.240.95 (talk) 18:03, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

This appears to be speculation and bad info. Sea otters are the only mustelids that don't have anal scent glands and I can't find any source for some other kind of scent gland or about predators avoiding them because of smell. I'll request for this to be snipped from the article. Nebulancer (talk) 04:54, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Removed. Thank you User:192.33.240.95 and Nebulancer both for bringing this up. Cheers, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 05:14, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

I would think they evolved not to have scent glands to keep the orcas from sniffing them out. Maybe someone is using generic info for all mustelids and not taking consideration that sea otters are a rare exception. That's my best guess. Low quality info... Marshall James schreffler (talk) 02:32, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Eurocentric article - incomplete range

I came to this article to find out more about the sea otters that live near my apartment in Lumut, Malaysia. This article concentrates mostly on US and Canadian sea otters, with very little mention of Asian otters. In fact, the article implies that otters' southernmost range in Asia is Japan. This is clearly wrong, as I live near the equator.

I'd appreciate someone with more knowledge of sea otters adding balance to this article with some more information on Asian sea otters. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Newzild (talk • contribs) 04:50, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Sea otters (Enhydra lutris) don't occur there. You may be seeing the Oriental small-clawed otter. SHFW70 (talk) 22:55, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Unclear Reference Citations

Who is this 'Silverstein' cited so often in the references, and what reference did he write? It is not very helpful to give just the name of an auther and never the name of the work. 64.105.137.254 (talk) 18:22, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Look at the reference list below the numbered notes. Silverstein, Alvin; Silverstein, Virginia and Robert (1995). The Sea Otter. Brookfield, Connecticut: The Millbrook Press, Inc. ISBN 1-56294-418-5. OCLC 30436543 Civiello m (talk) 12:21, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

MOS conflict in lead

Resolved

The wiki linked "otter" in the first sentence of this article should be removed. It conflicts with MOS, specifically WP:LINKSTYLE (quote: "Links should not be placed in the boldface reiteration of the title in the opening sentence of a lead") and WP:BOLDTITLE (last entry). Normally I would let this slip, but a featured article should follow MOS.62.107.210.217 (talk) 13:50, 21 November 2013 (UTC)

The article isn't edit protected anymore. I've dealt with the matter. 62.107.217.225 (talk) 11:03, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Units of measurement

It should no longer be necessary to include feet, inches & pounds in a scientifically factual article simply for the only country that still understands these units. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 120.148.221.248 (talk) 22:16, 24 September 2015 (UTC)

Fish

I feel like sea otters aren't fish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.57.151.28 (talk) 15:11, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

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Contributions from unregistered users automatically reverted

Reverting edits simply because the contributors are not using an account must stop. To quote from Wikipedia:IPs_are_human_too; "This practice is against the philosophy of Wikipedia and founding principles of all Wikimedia projects". 84.210.34.27 (talk) 09:58, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

I assume you are referring to the addition of this source. Were the results submitted to a peer-reviewed journal? Samsara (talk) 11:09, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

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Fraction of their range

Context: “the world population fell to 1,000–2,000 individuals living in a fraction of their historic range.[3] [...] have contributed to numbers rebounding, and the species now occupies about two-thirds of its former range.” The initial “a fraction of their historic range” needs to be clarified, as “two-thirds” is a fraction as well, although implied by context to be an improvement. 1/3 and 1/100 aren’t nearly the same fraction... Archon Shiva (talk) 23:25, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

About Main Image

Is it okay for the main image to have a full body? Are there images of the highest quality that show a full body of the animal?Esagurton (talk) 11:14, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Using a full body photo as the main image is OK but is not required. Wikipedia's Manual of Style says that the lead image should provide visual confirmation that the reader has arrived on the right page, and "Lead images should be natural and appropriate representations of the topic; they should not only illustrate the topic specifically, but also be the type of image used for similar purposes in high-quality reference works." There is more to representing the topic than literally illustrating the physical characteristics of the animal. The sea otter is a highly charismatic (technical term for "cute") and inquisitive species. A close-up of the face can capture these characteristics better than a full-body picture, especially on small screens. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 05:24, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

@Clayoquot: I completely agree. I was curious, though, and I uploaded a crop of the image Esagurton tried to add and I think it looks better because of the quality. I did not change it yet, just looked in preview. It's File:Sea Otter (Enhydra lutris) (25169790524) crop.jpg – what do you think? The kelp in the current image is difficult to see, so I don't think it's a good representation of the behavior as described in #Social structure. Rhinopias (talk) 23:35, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

I think the cropped image looks really good! It's much sharper than the one we currently have and just as cute. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 06:07, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Flawed image

A reader pointed out that the map showing the range of the sea otter is obviously flawed. File:Sea Otter Enhydra lutris distribution map 2.png The image does have a source and it matches the source but the source is clearly incorrect.

Given the fact that this is a featured article, I'm hoping that someone will care enough to track down and create a better image or discuss whether inclusion of a flawed image is better than no image at all.--S Philbrick(Talk) 14:42, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

(Related to entry in next post)--S Philbrick(Talk) 20:50, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Sea Otter distribution along the Aleutian Island chain

Hello Fellow Wikipedians,

On your page concerning Enhydra lutris, the Sea Otter, an unnatural gap on the map in its distribution along the Aleutian Island chain caught my eye, and I had a strong feeling that this was incorrect, the entire chain of islands is populated, surely?

The actual current distribution maps' source is: http://www.seaotters.org/

and the map: http://www.seaotters.org/otterspot/World-Range.gif

The 'map with the gap' currently displayed is from the IUCN: http://maps.iucnredlist.org/map.html?id=7750

If you think it needs more sources to confirm, I can probably find them; but the otters don't just suddenly stop in a straight line, and then several islands and a few hundred miles later just start up again in another straight line, nature's not like that as we know.

Jonathan P. TylerOtter carer (talk) 16:58, 22 August 2018 (UTC) Otter carer (talk) 16:44, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Hi Johnathan and Phil. Thanks for raising this issue. The current range map, File:Sea Otter Enhydra lutris distribution map 2.png, is not pretty, but it might actually tell the correct story. The key issue you raise is whether there is, as the map suggests, a gap in the species' range in the Aleutian Islands. It is possible for there to be such a gap. A species' original range has to be continuous, but as we know, hunting and other pressures led to a discontinuous range for this species (i.e. sea otters were wiped out in some places but not in others). If there are reliable sources that say there are sea otters throughout the Aleutians, we should consider redoing or removing the map. Usually, the IUCN range map reflects the best available information.

I agree that the straight lines and sharp corners look weird. I imagine that this is happening because the image is a crude rendering of the available spatial distribution data. It's not pretty, but I think the picture adds value despite being obviously crude. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 22:04, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Jonathan P. Tyler linked to a map that looks much more plausible. --S Philbrick(Talk) 23:52, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

I found a fairly recent good source (https://www.fws.gov/alaska/fisheries/mmm/stock/Revised_April_2014_Southwest_Alaska_Sea_Otter_SAR.pdf) that describes the range as being across the Aleutians, so your intuitions are probably right. I'll remove the map for now. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 04:29, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

The content I removed is: | range_map = Sea Otter Enhydra lutris distribution map 2.png | range_map_caption = Sea otter range.<ref name="IUCN_map">IUCN (International Union for Conservation of Nature) 2015. Enhydra lutris. In: IUCN 2015. The IUCN Red List of Threatened Species. Version 2015.2. http://www.iucnredlist.org. Downloaded on 17 July 2015.</ref> Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 04:32, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Sea Otter distribution along the Aleutian Island chain 02

Hello again fellow Wikipedians,

I have found further sources regarding the correct and current distribution of the sea otter in the Aleutians:

from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service:

https://www.fws.gov/alaska/fisheries/mmm/seaotters/pdf/Recovery%20Plan%20SW%20AK%20DPS%20Sea%20Otter%20Aug13.pdf

From the Alaska Department of Fish and Game: http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=seaotter.rangemap

From an academic website, Science Direct: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/B9780128014028000044

and am awaiting complete confirmation, including possible access to a current and excellent distribution map, and permission to publish an email just received from the University of California Santa Cruz, confirming that the otters are indeed extant across the entire archipelago.

Hope this helps,

JonathanOtter carer (talk) 17:40, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

That's awesome, Johnathan, thanks! Do you think you might be able to ask one of the organizations you've been in contact with to release a good range map under a Creative Commons license? That would make it possible for us to use the map in this article. Specifically, the license we need is https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/ or similar. The tricky part is that we are looking for a complete range map, not just Alaska or just the U.S. Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 21:49, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Hello Clayoquot, many thanks, all quite a bit to take on board as a first timer, but will certainly be in touch with the originators of the most accurate current map over the weekend and ask their permission, I have a large version of it but don't feel at liberty to pass it on until I've received said permission, if that's okay? Sorry! Thankyou,

JonathanOtter carer (talk) 23:00, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Totally fine. Thanks for looking into it! Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 05:11, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 September 2018

Please remove the first sentence of section 5.3, Predators: "Sea otter predation is not common as many predators find the otter's pungent scent glands distasteful."

This is speculation and demonstrably false--sea otters are actually the only mustelids that don't have anal scent glands (mentioned in the Evolution section of this very article). Nebulancer (talk) 05:03, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Done. Thanks for bringing this up. Cheers, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 05:13, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 March 2019

2605:A601:4472:DA00:5CE:1E8:A3ED:D126 (talk) 17:42, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

•  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Anaxial (talk) 21:12, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request 14 March 2019

Please add in where you think best, most likely in section 5.1, the interesting fact that sea otter skeletons can be stained purple due to their dietary reliance on purple sea urchins. This process is called Echinochrome staining. Citation here. Picture here. I recently learned this, and thought it was quite neat.

•  Done. Interesting! Cheers, Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 20:32, 17 March 2019 (UTC)

@Clayoquot I will try Acjpro (talk) 14:43, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Economic impact. Part of sea otter page.

This section is contradictory of itself. To the point of un-education. I'm new and don't know how to fully work with Wikipedia but I can tell that this section has some serious problems. It seams almost biased to wards a shell fisherman's point of view. I mean, really, how can 10,000 otters along thousands of miles of coastline have a significant impact on shellfish? How would a few otters eat all the abalone shells in millons of hectors of seafloor? I've done some research and I believe this source to be biased to a conservative fisherman's point of view. That's all. Marshall James schreffler (talk) 02:25, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Replying to myself...after reading "economic impact" section of see otter page it becomes even more clear that the source info is too biased to be represented as educational material. It is well known that kelp forests are sanctuaries for larva of shellfish. Without the protection and cover of kelp shellfish larva don't stand much of a chance, but sea otters help the kelp.... So the sea otters are inadvertantly farming there own food, as far as ecology goes, so how plausible is an "intense debate" about sea otters destroying the shellfish harvest. I'm not good at this so if someone else notices these contradictory "otter tales" please try and fix it? I'll figure it out soon enough. I created an account just because of this page... It made me feel stupid just reading it. Thanx. Marshall James schreffler (talk) 03:03, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Definition of the Kuril population as "the north of Japan".

The Kuril Islands belong to Russia and the Kuril population of sea otters is considered Russian. Can you please explain to me why we have to describe Kurillian sea otters as a "population in the north of Japan"? Should we, with this logic, call Canadian sea otters "population in the north of the United States" and American "in the north of Mexico"? I will say right away that I have no problem mentioning Japan and as far as I know the otter population is also in the Hokkaido area. I am extremely embarrassed by a very clumsy wording. Solaire the knight (talk) 03:35, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

It doesn't have to be included; the issue I had was that the implication of the phrasing was that there were two separate populations, one north of Japan and another one in the islands, when they're actually the same. (So far as I can tell, they're only around the islands, but those do approach one part of Hokkaido, so they'd necessarily be close to that one bit as well). I wouldn't bother describing Texas as being north of Mexico, as I think more readers are likely to know where Texas is than where the Kuril Islands are, but if you want to remove the reference to the islands' location altogether, I don't see that as an issue. Anaxial (talk) 09:08, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

My problem was that regardless of the intent, the phrase was very clumsily composed and that is why it made it feel as if its author was claiming that the Kuril Islands are the north of Japan. It was in connection with this that I sarcastically noted that with such logic one can name regions with a population of American sea otters as Mexican or Canadian. Solaire the knight (talk) 10:20, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Forage

The word "forage" from the lead section links to Forage. Should it link to Foraging instead? --NGC 54 (talk｜contribs) 01:13, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

?

Can I ask why my edit to add mention that there is another marine otter and it is an even smaller marine mammal has been reverted? that is useful, salient, and true information. 2601:642:C481:4640:A580:7153:5936:E118 (talk) 06:43, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Unnecessary detail in lead 〜 Adflatuss • talk 07:14, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Ok, now someone has removed the "among" to make it not only vague but actively wrong. now i'm peeved. 2601:642:C481:4640:EDB1:C59A:546A:ABF5 (talk) 08:44, 22 September 2023 (UTC)

Rosa

Should the article not make mention of the oldest known living sea otter and YouTube/Twitch sensation, Rosa? If she is notable enough to have a wiki page, I feel like she is notable enough to at least be mentioned in this article. 68.229.156.13 (talk) 18:45, 25 March 2024 (UTC)