Talk:Scotland under the Commonwealth

Scotland under the Commonwealth has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: October 8, 2014. (Reviewed version).

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The "meaner sort"?

Latest comment: 10 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

I confess to being ignorant of exactly the implication. At the least, could there be an inline cite for this in the lead, as a quote? Also in the lead, what is a sectary?? And non-Scottish readers may not know what "the Kirk" is. hamiltonstone (talk) 12:31, 27 July 2014 (UTC)Reply

The best way to deal with Kirk is to put in a link to the Kirk Party article, and to the Covenanter article.

The "meaner sort" non-nobility (think French revolution, lawyers, merchants and the like). Perhaps another way to look at it is who was excluded from the general pardon and forced to pay reparations see Cromwell's Act of Grace. That lot were clearly not the meaner sort!

In England a similar problem happened in Cromwell's Other House with all but one of the old aristocracy, even though parliamentary supporters in the Civil War, refusing to sit with the like of Pride and Hewson, the first of whom had been a drayman and the other a cobbler before the English Civil War. Sir John Hewson also got in in the neck (literally!) from the apprentices of London who used to throw old shoes at him as he walked through the city (did not like to see someone rise above their station in life). (In the Sharpe TV series about the Napoleonic Wars, Sharpe a fictional British soldier raised from the ranks, is always being told by both soldiers and officers "he is not a proper officer" because he is not a gentleman (born with a silver spoon in his mouth)).

In England it was the "middling sort" (to use a term used by Richard Baxter [1] and others of the time that has become common coin[2][3]), not peasants but artisans yeomen etc, who were the backbone of the revolution. To quote Cromwell's famous line "I'd rather have a plain, russet-coated Captain, that knows what he fights for, and loves what he knows, than that which you call a gentleman and is nothing else".

-- PBS (talk) 22:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)Reply

GA Review

Latest comment: 10 years ago2 comments1 person in discussion

This review is transcluded from Talk:Scotland under the Commonwealth/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Peacemaker67 (talk · contribs) 00:43, 1 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Lead suggest "Scotland under the Commonwealth refers to the history of Scotland between February 1652 and June 1660, from the declaration that the kingdom was part of the Commonwealth of England until the Restoration of the monarchy and Scotland's position as an independent kingdom." Y suggest "After the execution of Charles I in 1649, the Scottish Parliament declared his son Charles II to be King of Great Britain and Ireland." Y suggest a comma after "Under the Tender of Union" and "Under the terms of the union" Y (I added these just now) suggest "began attempts Y (I did this) suggest "The regime tolerated Protestants, including sectarians, as "sectaries" is a very uncommon word significant groups - should that be "group"? Y The "Kirk" needs explanation Y suggest "The Kirk was divided into Resolutioners and more hard line Protesters by the issue of co-operation with the crown." Y the use of "regime" is repetitive Y suggest "and facilitated the Restoration of Charles II in 1660." Y Background suggest you split this sentence into two, as follows: "Having supported Parliament in the First English Civil War (1642–46) under the Solemn League and Covenant, the Covenanter government in Scotland came under the control of the Engagers. As part of the Second English Civil War they invaded England in support of royalist risings, and were defeated by the New Model Army under Oliver Cromwell at Battle of Preston in 1648." Y suggest you explicitly state that the Scottish Parliament were the ones who declared Charles II king, and king of Great Britain and Ireland, as the casual reader might think it was just Scotland. Y add a comma after "was no rising in their favour" Y Constitutional status check the quote "so much of Scotland as it now under" should "it" be "is"? Y Administration Scottish Estates needs explanation Y £50,0000? Y suggest "by 1655, and was still not complete" Y "by a seven commissioners" Y Resistance suggest "As a result, the ~~military~~ Royalist military effort petered out." Y Religion "the Kirk" needs explanation Y should "Consultations" have an initial capital? Y see my earlier comment re: sectaries 'Economy and taxation "free quarter" needs explanation. Do you mean "free quarters" Y
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	suggest you use template:cite book in the bibliography section, which will reduce the space used, as well as clutter the page numbers in the bibliography duplicate those in the notes section suggest using shortened footnoting to reduce the clutter and repetition in the notes section suggest use of refbegin and refend templates to reduce size of reference section while the current set-up meets minimum acceptable standards under WP:FNNR, I strongly suggest you consider the above changes
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Well-cited throughout
	2c. it contains no original research.	Source spotchecks were good
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	all the main aspects have been included, no extraneous material
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	succinct
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	No detectable bias
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	no issues with edit warring or recent major changes
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	the drawing of Guthrie appears to have been done by Margetson who died in 1940, but has a life of the author +100 years tag, which doesn't work. Y (removed) File:Blaeu.Atlas.of.Scotland.1654.Renfrew.Govan.jpg needs a US PD tag Y I've added a PD-1996 licence to this one. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 21:33, 8 October 2014 (UTC)Reply otherwise, the image licensing is fine
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	all captions are pertinent and relevant
	7. Overall assessment.	~~On hold for seven days for the above areas of prose and image licensing to be addressed~~Passing now, well done.

Update on progress

Latest comment: 10 years ago22 comments2 people in discussion

Lead

suggest "Scotland under the Commonwealth refers to the history of Scotland between February 1652 and June 1660, from the declaration that the kingdom was part of the Commonwealth of England until the Restoration of the monarchy and Scotland's position as an independent kingdom."
WP:REFERS discourages "refers" in the opening sentence.--SabreBD (talk) 20:48, 5 October 2014 (UTC)Reply
- Fair point. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 11:39, 7 October 2014 (UTC)Reply
suggest "After the execution of Charles I in 1649, the Scottish Parliament declared his son Charles II to be King of Great Britain and Ireland."
Done.--SabreBD (talk) 20:48, 5 October 2014 (UTC)Reply
suggest a comma after "Under the Tender of Union", "Under the terms of the union" and
suggest "began attempts
Did you do this already, there seem to be commas?--SabreBD (talk) 20:48, 5 October 2014 (UTC)Reply
suggest "The regime tolerated Protestants, including sectarians, as "sectaries" is a very uncommon word
It is, however, the correct word. Sectarian suggests something else entirely.--SabreBD (talk) 20:48, 5 October 2014 (UTC)Reply
significant groups - should that be "group"?
Done.--SabreBD (talk) 20:48, 5 October 2014 (UTC)Reply
The "Kirk" needs explanation.
Done.--SabreBD (talk) 20:48, 5 October 2014 (UTC)Reply
suggest "The Kirk was divided into Resolutioners and more hard line Protesters by the issue of co-operation with the crown."
Done.--SabreBD (talk) 20:48, 5 October 2014 (UTC)Reply
the use of "regime" is repetitive.
Done. Changed some to Commonwealth.--SabreBD (talk) 20:48, 5 October 2014 (UTC)Reply
suggest "and facilitated the Restoration of Charles II in 1660."
Done.--SabreBD (talk) 21:12, 8 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

Background

suggest you split this sentence into two, as follows: "Having supported Parliament in the First English Civil War (1642–46) under the Solemn League and Covenant, the Covenanter government in Scotland came under the control of the Engagers. As part of the Second English Civil War they invaded England in support of royalist risings, and were defeated by the New Model Army under Oliver Cromwell at Battle of Preston in 1648."
Done.--SabreBD (talk) 21:12, 8 October 2014 (UTC)Reply
suggest you explicitly state that the Scottish Parliament were the ones who declared Charles II king, and king of Great Britain and Ireland, as the casual reader might think it was just Scotland.

Done.--SabreBD (talk) 21:12, 8 October 2014 (UTC)Reply

add a comma after "was no rising in their favour"

Done.--SabreBD (talk) 21:12, 8 October 2014 (UTC) Constitutional statusReply