Talk:Rural Municipality of East St. Paul

Making sweeping changes to the article

Whitehea has made several attempts to completely delete the section on Police scandal and disbanding without discussion or explanation. This started out as a "removed political input" on the May 28th edit. After this edit, I undid the deletion with the request that in the future the user discuss this on the talk page prior to deleting entire sections of the article. On June 17th, the user then renamed the section "transportation" and deleted all 6 national news citations to the Taman inquiry as well as most of the content and labelled the edit as "added transportation section". Please make accurate edit summaries as per Wikipedia edit summmary guidelines and please discuss your rationale for deletion/major changes on the talk pages first.

Second issue. Whitehea continues to remove the citation needed tags without explanation. Citation needed tags should not be removed unless a citation is being inserted or there is concensus on the talk page that it is not required. Please see the Citation needed help page for more information.

Third issue. Whitehea continues to reword parts of the article to make it sound more like an advertisement or tourism brochure and less like an objective encyclopedia article. Please review Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View guidelines and the article What Wikipedia is not.

To Whitehea or anyone else who wishes to make sweeping changes. I am not against improving the article and adding facts. I would ask that as a courtesy, you make your rationale known first on this talk page prior to moving ahead. Thanks. Dig Deeper (talk) 16:32, 20 June 2016 (UTC)

Crystal Taman incident

I believe the incident involving the unprecedented disbanding of a local police station and the nation-wide coverage given to the situation merits discussion on this article. If you feel differently, please discuss your views below. Any deletions made without discussion on this talk page will be reverted. Dig Deeper (talk) 01:14, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

I thank you for your comment Dig Deeper about NPOV regarding the RM of East St Paul, will endeavor to add references where needed. I look forward to using the Talk Page in the future. The Transportation section that you previously removed provides facts on important routes for the rural municipality,as well as the $200 million provincial infrastructure project undertaken in 2015 at East St. Paul, so it should be included. Your section about Crystal Taman is covered in great detail with its own wiki, so your extensive section appears to be redundant according my understanding of Wikipedia editorial policy, as it is already linked to that wiki for discussion. Perhaps there could be another section in the East St Paul wiki called == Protection Services == that provides facts on what fire, police and emergency services are offered in the municipality, so the change from municipal police to RCMP can be noted, without providing all the redundancy.

Regards,

Whitehea — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whitehea (talk • contribs) 13:14, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for using the talk page. I would suggest that transportation has it's own section. Comparing other municipalities and small communities, this is usually not a notable topic or topic of interest. Also, please try to incorporate the citations in the text. The In line citations are the preferred method on Wikipedia. If you want to do a rough job of this, I would be more than happy to tidy it up. Alternatively, I could make an educated guess where the citation goes and you could let me know if I got it wrong.

As far as the Taman inquiry goes, just because a topic has a separate article that goes into greater detail, does not mean that it is not given coverage elsewhere. I know you're a little new to Wikipedia, so please don't take offense at my instruction. While redundancy is generally discouraged within an article, this is definitely not the case between articles. There will always be some redundancies between articles and this is often used to pique the curiosity of readers to investigate the topic more deeply and perhaps contribute to these topics. For examples on redundancies look no further than the article on Manitoba and note the Main article or See also under several of the subheadings. So the position that the section should be removed due to redundancy is not justified. The short summary paragraph on the Taman incident, redundant or not, should stay. It is notable (was in the national and local press) and the long term consequences to the community are unique and significant (permanent disbanding of a local police force).Dig Deeper (talk) 22:33, 21 June 2016 (UTC)

I'd appreciate if you clean up citations, and I'll take note how you've done it. For continuity purposes of the other headings, I suggest that a brief summary of the incident be put in a different section called police or protection services that can give readers some insight to differnt services the RCMP provide. Regards, Whitehea — Preceding unsigned comment added by Whitehea (talk • contribs) 17:04, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Unless the services the RCMP provide in East St. Paul are somehow unique to East St. Paul, I'm skeptical that is a notable topic. While I still think this is a significant incident, in the spirit of compromise I suppose we could change the title as per your request, so long as you would be willing to not "water down" or "gradually delete" what already is a summary of the Crystal Taman incident. Are we agreed?

I will edit the references. Learning from my example is one way to learn. Perhaps not the most ideal though. For learning lots more about Wikipedia editing (including the tips and tricks which are hard for me to show you), I would recommend visiting the Getting started page and even the The Wikipedia Adventure page. It doesn't take long, but it gives a good intro into things like how to reference, how to sign the talk pages, principles of editing, etc. Hope this helps. Don't be discouraged, Wikipedia has a steep learning curve at the start, but once you've got a good foundation it can be very rewarding.Dig Deeper (talk) 19:02, 22 June 2016 (UTC)

Thank you Dig Deeper for doing the clean up of references and your tips. Your attention to detail is appreciated. Some good came to the municipality as a result of the Taman incident. For sake of objectivity, it is newsworthy and notable for followers of this incident to be able to dig a little deeper and know that...... police services and costs to the RM have changed for the better since the RCMP detachment located there. The level of police services and professionalism has been enhanced. RCMP police now respond to emergency 911 calls on a 24 hour basis, and all the specialized units of the RCMP such as major crimes, serious crimes, dog section, and forensic services are now available at no cost to the rural community. The municipality received a grant from the province to initially help pay for new RCMP policing, and since January 1, 2009, the rural municipality no longer has to pay for its RCMP police service.....In the spirit of compromise, I agree to a Protection Services section including your summary of the Taman incident so long as you are willing to include my noteworthy summary of new policing services and cost savings brought on by the RCMP since the incident. Here is the reference link of the justice publication pdf from the Government of Manitoba providing details about policing changes, new services and cost savings for the RM of East St. Paul:

https://www.gov.mb.ca/justice/publications/pubs/rcmp_eaststpaul_handout.pdf

Regards Whitehea Whitehea (talk —Preceding undated comment added 05:18, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

The pdf document you provided is acceptable as a reliable source (though a secondary source such as a newspaper article is preferred), however please remember that this reference can only be used to support the facts that it directly discusses. If you can find a newspaper article that discusses what you outline above, that would allow readers to fact check.Dig Deeper (talk) 16:12, 30 June 2016 (UTC)

NPOV edits made

As was discussed above, I added "policing" and brought back the Taman inquiry information. I also deleted transportation section. Transportation and construction updates are usually not mentioned in articles about towns. I also rearranged the paragraphs in Geography section and deleted or toned-down some advertising-like phrases. As discussed above, we're really trying to get NPOV. Moved detailed geography information from the intro into the Geography section. The intro was quite cluttered with excess detail. Deleted "Some of the most expensive real estate in Manitoba is now located in these areas, especially near or along the Red River. " This really sounds like advertising more than a relevant NPOV encyclopedia fact. Also changed intro sentence "The population of East St. Paul increased by 313 persons (up 3.6%) between 2006 and 2011" which is redundant (being displayed in the infobox to the immediate right), to "The growth of East St. Paul has slowed in recent years" 3.6% is quite a small amount of population growth compared to 46% or 19% it has seen in the past. Lastly I deleted "The municipality is growing with new subdivisions increasing both population and business. " this is a vague statement that could be said of most communities and sounds more like advertising than a NPOV encyclopedia entry. If any of these edits are a concern, let's discuss it.Dig Deeper (talk) 18:06, 30 June 2016 (UTC)