Talk:Royal Moroccan Air Force

Excuse me

261 fighter aircraft? Where? Add up correctly, please. Is a CN-235 a fighter aircraft? Is a C-130 Hercules a fighter aircraft? Be serious, please! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.55.31.242 (talk) 12:56, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

This website is not a playhouse!!

If you wanna play not here please, there are some idiots who thinks to change some things without sources, and most of the time 99 of 100% this was Vandalism!!. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.71.64.132 (talk) 22:08, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Moroccan Air Force upgrades

I tagged this section for clean-up because of the following phrases:

"Morocco knew that in case of a war, they wouldn't have a big chance of winning it."

"Luckily, it never came near a war."

It also needs some copy editing and especially citations for facts. See WP:REF. I hope this is helpful. Random Passer-by 18:37, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:FRAm001.gif

Image:FRAm001.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 18:29, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Motto

The motto curving over the top of the crest reads "God ...".
So what does it say in full? Varlaam (talk) 22:48, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

AH-64E

Potential purchase of 36 Boeing AH-64E Apaches announced here: [1] Mztourist (talk) 07:19, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

list of aircraft

I just noticed that list of aircraft on this article and List of active Moroccan military aircraft are the same/redundant. So, I propose to remove the list on this article and just put link to 'List of active Moroccan military aircraft' page. Ckfasdf (talk) 04:51, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

Yeah I agree with that, just make sure to leave to link to that article - FOX 52 (talk) 05:18, 30 December 2019 (UTC)

ok, list of aircraft removed. and, link to that article is already there in the first place. Ckfasdf (talk) 00:53, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

quantity of Mirage on inventory

Recently, @MohamedAzzouz: edit mirage quantity on update of inventory table (based WAF 2020) and reverted back to inventory based on WAF 2019. the following is his statement on edit summary:

"The source is wrong, no source has mentioned that Morocco got rid of its Mirages and it would be ridicilous to do that so short after an upgrade and without replacement. Please do not change back on the basis of that source. The 2019 version is correct"

While, I acknowledge that his argument is makes sense, as WAF data sometimes incorrect. And if we look back previous WAF version on qty of RMAF's Mirage, the qty is somewhat "weird" the details are as follows:
WAF 2011/12: 50, WAF 2013: 50, WAF 2014: 50, WAF 2015: 15, WAF 2016: 15, WAF 2017: 9, WAF 2018: 19, WAF 2019: 24 and WAF 2020: 9.

But I don't think reverting back to 2019 is good solution either, afterall WAF is generally considered reliable soure, no justification to use WAF 2019, and MohamedAzzouz didn't provide source to back up his claims. So, I open this discussion to have consensus on number of Mirage to be shown. Ckfasdf (talk) 02:11, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

I am Moroccan, living in Morocco close to the Sidi Slimane air base and know people that work at the base and follow the developments of our air force. There is zero mention by anyone of getting rid of the Mirages and frankly it is impossible to do this at this moment. You can't ask me for a source of something that did not happen. On what did WAF 2020 base their information, that should be the question. The goal here is to prevent misinformation to spread. MohamedAzzouz (talk) 04:24, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

@MohamedAzzouz: Please note that refer to WP:BURDEN, burden to demonstrate verifiability lies with the editor who changes material.

So.... No news at all about total number of mirage (even in Arabic/French)? If no, then we are left with WAF as the only reliable source. If you propose WAF 2019 is better than WAF 2020, what's the reason? Why not WAF 2018 or earlier. Please see also WP:VNT. Ckfasdf (talk) 04:58, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for this conversation. WAF might be reliable (according to you) in general, but is certainly is not in this case. As you yourself have demonstrated with (quote)WAF 2014: 50, WAF 2015: 15,WAF 2016: 15, WAF 2017: 9, WAF 2018: 19, WAF 2019: 24 and WAF 2020: 9. We never had 50 and these ups and downs make it 100% unreliable in the case of number Mirages in our service. So now what? The link below is an alternative it is old (2010), but as there is no source, none in Arabic nor in French claiming a change in numbers except one crash, it should be the reference. Do you agree? It mentions 27 mirages, and there has been one lost end of 2019, making it 26 mf2000 mirages. Source: [2] MohamedAzzouz (talk) 17:22, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

According to the Stockholm Int'l Peace Research Institute (30) Mirage F-1CFGA's (20) F-1EFGA's were received from 1977 to 1982 - totaling 50 aircraft. So WAF had it right. FOX 52 (talk) 19:42, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

RMAF did purchase and received 50 F1s (30 F1CHs, 14 F1EHs, and six F1EH-200) in 80s. However by 2014, it's unlikely the number is still 50. So, I also agree that WAF is not reliable on this case. Afterall, INSS report in 2011 and 2013 said it has 33 and 27 respectively. Those 27 also confirmed by multiple source as that number were F1s upgraded in 2009. 1 crashed in 2015 after bird strike. 1 crashed in 2019. So it should be around 25. Ckfasdf (talk) 20:26, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you so much for enlighting me, so the concensus here is that the real number of Mirages MF2000 is 24 or 25? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MohamedAzzouz (talk • contribs) 20:32, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Just go with one or the other - like most of these tables the true number maybe be off by one or two, due to unreported incidents, spare parts issues etc. The idea is to keep it (numbers) as close as possible for the reader. - FOX 52 (talk) 21:35, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

Information on initial number of 50 and number of upgrade are actually mentioned in history section. Regarding the number should be mentioned on the table, IMO you can put 25 with {{citation needed}} tag as there is no reference for that... so maybe it'll be like this 25{{cn|date=May 2020|reason=refer to discussion on [[Talk:Royal Moroccan Air Force#quantity of Mirage on inventory|talk page]]}} Ckfasdf (talk) 00:34, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

No we should go with the most current sourced number, in that case - FOX 52 (talk) 00:48, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Even if the source is dubious? (reason as mentioned as above) keep it as is then (9 with WAF 2020 sourcing and dubious tag)... until better source found? or do you have better proposal? Ckfasdf (talk) 01:41, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

@Fox 52 I disagree with use of WAF 2020 in this case as it has been proven be very wrong. I find proposal of Ckfasdf most logic to follow. MohamedAzzouz (talk) 03:28, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

I said above "Just go with one or the other" - you can pick source. this back and fourth is going no where- FOX 52 (talk) 20:37, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

So the consensus is, we go with MohamedAzzouz's proposal to use WAF 2019 data due to the number is closer to what being discussed above. If WAF 2021 onwards still shows "weird" number, we may keep WAF 2019. Ckfasdf (talk) 02:09, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Agreed, looking forward to the 2021 edition to see what they will do with the numbers this time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MohamedAzzouz (talk • contribs) 20:30, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

@MohamedAzzouz: WAF 2021 is out, and the number of Mirage is suddenly rose into 46 aircrafts. considering previous WAF data (WAF 2011/12: 50, WAF 2013: 50, WAF 2014: 50, WAF 2015: 15, WAF 2016: 15, WAF 2017: 9, WAF 2018: 19, WAF 2019: 24 and WAF 2020: 9.), I believe it safe to assume WAF is unreliable source on this matter and I will revert it back to WAF 2019 as previously agreed. Ckfasdf (talk) 11:01, 22 November 2021 (UTC)

@MohamedAzzouz: Btw, IP editor just recently mention "weird" number on Bell 205, WAF 2020 said it was "5", while WAF 2019 and all the wayback to WAF 2011 said it was "47". could you please find any info on this. it's not primary fighter aircraft, so info on the internet may be scarce. Ckfasdf (talk) 02:45, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

@MohamedAzzouz and Ckfasdf: If I may chip in, according to IISS - The Military Balance 2021, page 358, Morocco has 26 Mirage F-1s. Specifically 15 F-1CH and 11 F-1EH. Though I don't know if the number is 100% correct as 2 of the original 27 upgraded Mirage crashed (so the number would be 25), the only way to explain the number of 26 might be that an older F-1 was brought back into service. Do we know the variant of the crashed Mirages by any chance? Couldn't find anything about it from my searches. Alin2808 (talk) 22:26, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

@Alin2808: The only problem on IISS Military Balance source is that it need subscription, so not everyone can verify it.. nonetheless it still is a reliable source per WP:SOURCEACCESS. Also, it may be difficult to be 100% accurate all the time. However based on above data, I believe IISS data is more plausible (hence more reliable) than Flightglobal's WAF. Kindly please make changes based on IISS source. Thank you. Ckfasdf (talk) 22:50, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Alright, added the source. The correct number seems to be between 24-26, I only kept the number of 26 from IISS. Alin2808 (talk) 00:26, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

Update 2024: WAF 2011/12: 50, WAF 2013: 50, WAF 2014: 50, WAF 2015: 15, WAF 2016: 15, WAF 2017: 9, WAF 2018: 19, WAF 2019: 24, WAF 2020: 9, WAF 2021:46, WAF 2022: 46, WAF 2023: 46, and WAF 2024: 46. It seems WAF/Cirium stop updating Morocco since 2021, which further confirms our suspicion that WAF is not reliable source on this case. Ckfasdf (talk) 00:48, 5 January 2024 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Forces auxiliaires.jpeg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:33, 16 December 2022 (UTC)