Talk:Rosendo Balinas Jr.

Old talk

Krakatoa's argument on Grandmaster Balinas' article is indeed biased for Torre, as he never even mentioned the flaws on Torre's article which is grossly non-NPOV.

Balinas was the bridge between Cardoso and Torre. It is not denying the fact that when Balinas, the seven-time Philippine champion (6 Philippine Open and 1 National)was ruling Philippine chess, the ascendancy of the young Torre was taking place. And Balinas, a national chess master then, and a highly regarded chess columnist of Manila Times, provided Eugene Torre with guidance and much needed publicity, starting with Torre's participation in the World Junior Championship in the late 1960's. Balinas never was given the opportunity while he was junior chess champion of the Philippines, to play in the World Junior Chess Championship. This was the time Campomanes was the influential figure in the early Philippine chess arena.

Comparing their style, indeed contemporary Filipino chess players regard Rosendo Balinas's style as purist and original, as well as imaginative, compared to Torre's highly technical and efficient style. This is because too of Balinas' frequent deviation from opening "booklines" in his games. If one throws away the chess books, then the argument of Balinas' superior talent over Torre is true.

69.139.155.93

NPOV

This passage looks like it's unsourced and not-NPOV: "Balinas' talent and strength was considered superior than Eugenio Torre, but he was egregiously shut out by Campomanes from competing in strong international tournaments, including the World Chess Olympiads." Who considered Balinas' talent and strength superior to Torre (who was no slouch, advancing to the World Championship candidates matches)? What's the source for the proposition that Campomanes shut him out? Who said Campo did so "egregiously"? What does that mean, exactly? Krakatoa 20:08, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Elaborating on the above, I see that the article on Torre says of Torre: "He is considered the strongest chessplayer the Philippines has ever produced during the 1980's and 1990's period." This too is arguably non-NPOV, although at least Torre's case can be supported by the relatively neutral criterion of ELO ratings. Probably both of these should be rewritten to refer to ELO ratings, rather than amorphous statements about what was "considered" about their abilities. Krakatoa 20:17, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

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It is obvious you are pro-Torre, as such, your initial article on Grandmaster Balinas, which we really appreciate, was likewise incomplete, misleading and needed clarifications. Realize that you are not a Philippine chess expert, nor have intimate knowledge of the history of Philippine chess, or even international chess politics.

Likewise, if you say you are a lawyer by trade, and you cannot even understand the word 'egregious'?? The late Attorney Balinas would be so disappointed.

You are engrossed with "ELO" rating strengths but you failed to explain the logic on how a Filipino IM with a 2365 ELO strength can defeat 2500+ GM's and win a tournament? In Russia, with two rounds to go.

Mano a mano, during Grandmaster Balinas' peak, Eugenio Torre played below Balinas' playing strength, even when Torre had already reached the GM title on 1974 and advanced to the candidates matches. For example, during the strong 1976 Marlboro Classic, then IM Balinas scored 5/5 while GM Torre placed last (11th place) with 3.5 points.

Previously, Balinas tied for 1st with Gligoric during the 1970 Philippine Open Chess Championship, while Torre placed last.

During the 1978 GM Balinas- GM Torre match, Balinas was leading Torre 4-2 but lost the match 6-4. Not an excuse, Balinas reportedly got sick, and, rumors of Campomane's dirty tricks to unnerve Balinas surfaced, but this was not surprising. Where Balinas was being forced to transfer to different hotel rooms, and women being sent to his room in the middle of the night were rampant.

Balinas' superior, albeit drawn game against the future World Champion Bobby Fischer, and his defeat of candidate challengers Larsen, Polugayevski, Kavalek, and the absolute Russian Champion Savon, equal first with Yugolav candidate GM Svetozar Gligoric at the 1968 Philippine Open Chess Championship, all these achievement are no slouch either?

It is no secret in the Philippines of the long time animosity between Grandmaster Balinas and Campomanes, starting from the mid 1960's, and until Balinas' death on 1998. In fact Campo's crony Toti Abundo's recent FIDE article in Chessbase, justified Campos'action against Balinas of "borrowing" Balinas' family owned camera which Campo sold without Balinas' knowledge and approval, to "finance" the Philippine chess team's plane fare from Havana to Manila. On Balinas' death bed, Filipinos saw on ABS-CBN, Balinas' nationally televised condemnation of Campomanes for his unethical practice against "disfavored" Philippine chess players, and particularly of Campos' inherent abuse and failure to give Balinas fair and equal support, such as those he gave to Torre.

During the 1992 World Chess Olympiad held in Baguio, the Philippines, of the two Philippine teams comprised of the strongest 12 Filipino chess players fielded by Campomanes, the Philippines' 2nd Grandmaster and 7-time Philippine chess champion, Rosendo Carreon Balinas, Jr., was not selected.

So can you now define egregious?

192.138.70.245 12:50, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

J.R. Carreon

This is yet another article on a Filipino chess player that's laden with POV and peacock statements, and there's a great deal of cleaning up to do. In these last few years, I've found Krakatoa a fair-minded individual, and where he expresses concern, there's likely a good reason. Hushpuckena (talk) 01:56, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Balinas' GM title

'As a result of his victory in Odessa, FIDE awarded Balinas the International Chess Grandmaster title. This was most notable, particularly since Balinas' Elo rating was considerably lower than that of other grandmasters, and more so, despite his life long bitter conflict with the infamous ousted FIDE President Florencio Campomanes who ruled FIDE during the period'....

While I've no idea what the source of this is, it's incorrect to imply that Campomanes had anything to do hindering with Balinas' achievement. He made GM under the rules of FIDE and Campomanes hadn't even ascended to the presidency of FIDE then; Euwe was FIDE's head. Hushpuckena (talk) 02:19, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Rosendo Balinas Jr./Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

The main talk articles are first hand knowledge and therefore reflects a stronger argument and much more higher importance on the facts presented in the main body of Grandmaster Balinas' article. This are backed up by earlier published articles and newspaper accounts and well as historical knowledge and accounts of, for example, Bobby Ang, one of the more credible and premier chess journalist in the Philippines.

Last edited at 01:50, 1 January 2012 (UTC). Substituted at 04:55, 30 April 2016 (UTC)