Talk:Rock and Roll (Led Zeppelin song)

Untitled

Manowar cover you can hear here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM4JwtEEHG0. I think we can't use boothleg link in the article as source. But this cover do exist ;). 82.131.21.220 (talk) 21:20, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

Heavy metal?

How the hell is this heavy metal? It's just a 12-bar blues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.46.106.122 (talk) 20:43, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

agreed. Its not sourced either, so i'll be removing it.--Hadomaru (talk) 19:06, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Genres

First off, the genre which appears to say 'Rock and roll' is actually wikilinked to British rock and roll in violation of WP:EASTEREGG. The real question, though, is which of these should we use?

The other issue is Heavy metal: it was deleted again by an IP, Should it stay or go? Radiopathy •talk• 15:08, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

rock'n'roll

the song is clearly rock'n'roll, and the book "Heavy Metal Thunder: The Music, Its History, Its Heroes" clearly mentions this genre (page 85) : "Besides his inspired phrasing and his extemporaneous howls and asides, Plant could convincingly convey slow blues ("You Shook Me"), gutbucket rock & roll ("Rock and Roll"), and even folk ballads ("Going to California"), in a strong, cutting voice". And look above please, other editors have already pointed out this problem before (& heavy metal ain't sourced). 86.214.49.127 (talk) 22:42, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Thank you very much for starting a discussion, many editors watch these pages. Sabrebd, GoingBatty & GabeMc are regulars in this part of the project, and I invite comments on this discussion to help gain consensus. again thanx for the effort. Mlpearc (open channel) 23:08, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Without looking at any WP:RSs, I would say that this song is definitely not heavy metal; it's hard rock and/or maybe rock and roll, IMO, which is of course irrelevant here. What's relevant is how the abundance of reliable sources describe it, which brings me to the question: are there any reliable sources that describe it as metal, because I seriously doubt that there are, but I could be wrong. GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 23:26, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Please note that Wikipedia's article on rock and roll defines it as "the 1950s style of music". I haven't read the book, but I'm guessing the author has a different definition of "rock and roll". Because of that, I'd suggest using rock music instead. GoingBatty (talk) 23:39, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

As always, GoingBatty makes a good point. In the world of Wikipedia, rock and roll refers more to first generation rock music, but it's rarely used to describe classic rock. I agree with GB; Rock music is much more appropriate than Rock and roll. GabeMc ^{(talk|contribs)} 23:46, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict) FTR, I used this revert [1] for the basis of my edits. Mlpearc Phone (Powwow) 23:49, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

i'm confused... "rock & roll" is supposed to be a 50s music genre, but why is it impossible a 70s song can be regarded as such ? please take a look a this review. this rolling stone review seems to use roock & roll too and is compared to Little Richard's Keep A Knockin' : [2]. & what about it? [3] 86.214.49.127 (talk) 23:52, 6 December 2013 (UTC)

Rolling Stone says "But the music recasts rock & roll as something fierce and modern" and PopMatters says "a tribute to the golden age of rock music will inevitably sound thoroughly '70s". While it may have started as an homage to 50s rock and roll, it seems that they're saying Led Zep turned it into something else. GoingBatty (talk) 05:49, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

It is a complex question. The song started life as Little Richard's "Keep a Knockin", but it became something else. It is unlikely that sources will call this heavy metal as it is not the most obviously heavy metal track the band produced, but it is considered to be so by virtue of being on one of what is widely seen as one of the classic heavy metal albums. This is true of many Led Zeppelin songs, which are in a sense individually folk, blues, reggae or funk, but collectively they make up heavy metal. My suggestion is that we add rock and roll to genres, on the grounds that it is described as such in a (fairly) reliable source, but keep the heavy metal tag, as it forms part of the early evolution of the genre.--SabreBD (talk) 08:01, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

rock & roll is described as such by "Heavy Metal Thunder: The Music, Its History, Its Heroes" with "gutbucket rock & roll". this does not appear to be ambiguous, as Philip Bashe mentions other genres (blues and folk) for other songs. it should be added next to rock n roll in the infobox. but metal should be removed. didn't find good sources for it. Just found this sheet music [4]. please take a look at the arrangement details. rock & roll's mentionned.

The sheet music is not a WP:RS. I am also cautious about the Brashe book. I may be wrong, but it looks like one of those general popular encyclopedias. If so it is also not in the first rank of reliable sources. The reference is also less unambiguous than you assume, not least because it doesn't say "rock and roll", but "gutbucket rock and roll". This doesn't exactly sound like a considered scholarly opinion of genre. The only musicologist to have written extensively on Led Zeppelin's music that I am aware of is Susan Fast in her In the Houses of the Holy (OUP 2001). On page 199 she puts "Rock and Roll" in a short list of "fast, heavy song[s]" by the band. For the record, I can live with rock music if that is the consensus on this page.--SabreBD (talk) 00:19, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

I suggest keeping hard rock and changing heavy metal into rock. Rock, hard rock....or simply rock, as you suggest. 86.214.49.127 (talk) 01:22, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Led Zeppelin: Legendary Rock Band by Michael Schuman says « The fourth album also has its share of hard rock tracks. Three that received a lot of radio airplay are “Black Dog,” “Misty Mountain Hop,” and the appropriately named “Rock and Roll. » Appropriately named means what it means. so rock and Roll is both hard rock and rock & roll. these 2 genres should be kept and metal should be removed, as i suggested before.

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