Talk:Rinconada Bikol language

Riŋkonāda

Seriously, Riŋkonāda? Please stick to conventional spellings, not an alphabet that you wish the language to have. Thanks. --Chris S. (talk) 19:54, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Original research

The article includes original researches and opinions. Please add citations and references. Thank you. --Filipinayzd (talk) 01:51, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Orthography described in the article probably constitutes original research

The Rinconada Bicol orthography described in the article probably constitutes original research. Most Filipinos are not familiar with the letters Ə, Ŋ, and Ɣ. —Jencie Nasino (talk) 12:09, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Unsourced material

Most of the material added by User:Fcbelmontejr over the years is entirely unsourced. I have tagged all sections that are concerned.

@Christopher Sundita, TagaSanPedroAko, Darwgon0801, Pansitkanton, and Glennznl: are you aware of any sources we can use to salvage at least some of the content? Parts of the content are most probably unsupportable: the idiosyncratic orthography looks like a privately concocted project to me, and the /ɣ/-sound appears to be a fancyful way to write intervocalic hiatus in Rinconada that is a result of loss of PPh *h. It's not related to the /ɣ/-sound in Buhinon, which occurs in completely different words. –Austronesier (talk) 20:36, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

@Austronesier: The article seems almost entirely like original research to me. The language seems very scarcely documented in general and I can not find any sources on phonology or grammar. The orthography seems bogus to me, the Komisyon sa Wikang Filipino adapts the Tagalog orthography for local languages, but I can not find anything written about the orthography for Rinconado Bikol. Although sad, since it's a waste of the authors time and good intentions, and some information will certainly be correct but unverifiable, I think the majority of the article should be deleted until better documentation of the language appears. --Glennznl (talk) 21:18, 13 January 2022 (UTC)

@Austronesier: The main sources of information are from Jason Lobel. He wrote a book on all the languages spoken in Bicol, including Rinconada, called An Satuyang Tataramon as well as a Rinconada phrasebook. Curtis McFarland's 1974 dissertation also has information on Rinconada, if I remember correctly. As far as I know, there is no standard orthography for Rinconada, and the orthography shown in this article appears to be author's creation. --Chris S. (talk) 07:41, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

@Christopher Sundita and Glennznl: Thank you for chiming in. I have a copy of McFarland's dissertation (David Zorc has uploaded it to his online vault), but unfortunately not Lobel's books. McFarland mentions for Rinconada (and also Buhi, Daraga and Oas) an unrounded allophone of /w/ which he writes ⟨ẅ⟩, and which I would identify with [ɰ]. This is probably what's behind the ⟨ɣ⟩ here. @Chris, I know you're not that much active here anymore, but if you have Lobel's books at hand, maybe you can help out to salvage anything in the article that can be supported based on Lobel (and co-authors). I'll do the same with McFarland's dissertation. –Austronesier (talk) 19:29, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

@Austronesier: Lobel doesn't go into the phonetic value of Buhinon /ɣ/, though from the data set he presents with lexical items like /aɣaki/ 'man' & /baɣəy/ 'house', it's a reflex of *l. I could follow up with Jason to see if he knows of any sources dealing with the phonetic articulation of this sound.

As for Rinconada {ɣ} used in this article, Lobel describes it as the lack of /h/ as you alluded to above. This resulted in epenthesis of semivowels and two identical vowels merging into a lengthened one. For something that was originally naiintindihan, he writes it as naiintidiyan and trabaho as trabawo. He represents the lack of /h/ between two identical vowels with a tie, so he writes eskwelahan, mahal, and paha as eskwela͡an, ma͡al, and pa͡a. I doubt this tie convention is used by Rinconada speakers & speakers of other Southern Bikol varieties, though I can follow up with Jason on that as well. In any case, I will have to find time sometime in the near future to update this in the article. --Chris S. (talk) 06:25, 17 January 2022 (UTC)