Talk:Recessional (poem)

Analysis

"The poem expresses pride in the British Empire, ..." I find this hard to understand. The poem is not praise for the British Empire but rather cautionary, a warning. If the poem had been about pride in England Kipling would not have compared the Empire to that of Nineveh and Tyre.

In the second stanza, lines 7 - 10 are further criticism against the empire. It's saying that when the battles won or lost people forget and it no longer matters whereas the sacrifice of Christ lasts and is not forgotten or deemed unimportant after a time.

--Ruthawen (talk) 19:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

All of the analysis of the poem in the article appears to be original research. If I cared enough I would find a decent guide to British Literature, not merely a collection of poems, and a biography of Kipling so that a proper analysis could be presented (the entire poem is a condemnation of trusting in the use of military and naval might and in the use itself) with proper references. As it is I will have to let the article sit as it is, an adolescent's poor essay for a literature class. JimCubb (talk) 18:37, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I take issue with the comment: " It introduces the reason for the entreaty expressed in the poem: that God might spare England from oblivion or profanity "lest we forget" the sacrifice of Christ ("Thine ancient sacrifice"). The line has nothing to do with Christ. It is much more ancient! Rather the next line in the poem refers directly to the "ancient sacrifice". It derives from Micah 6:8 "To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God." In the poem, this becomes "an humble and a contrite heart". H.Marshall — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.173.243.143 (talk) 21:39, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Right interpretation, wrong citation. Kipling's reference is quite obviously to Psalm 51:17: "The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." -- 76.15.130.59 (talk) 11:55, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

That's just your opinion. Unless and until it is backed up by sources, the wording that was previously agreed upon by consensus must be preserved. Any scripture can be interpreted any way for any cause. I suggest we let the sources speak for themselves. Unless and until the consensus (that's two or more editors with a registered user name) agree to this change, it shouldn't be implemented into the article. I am therefore restoring the original wording. In the meantime, this point bears further discussion. Thoughts? --Jgstokes (talk) 22:58, 26 October 2014 (UTC)

Amen?

Is the final "Amen" really part of Kipling's poem, or was it added when people set it to music as a hymn? An 1898 hymn setting at http://www.hymnary.org/hymn/SCW1898/825 lacks this. 192.4.0.12 (talk) 23:08, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Well spotted. The Poetry Foundation and The Kipling Society both show it without the "Amen." I'll remove it, and add a citation if necessary.TheCensorFencer (talk) 21:56, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

The Thin Red Line?

There was a wikilink in the text of the poem for the phrase "far-flung battle line," which linked to the "The Thin Red Line" page. I removed the link. The interpretation of "far-flung battle line" as meaning "The Thin Red Line" was not cited, and a brief internet search didn't yield me any sources, credible or otherwise, that make this connection. I know very little about poetry, so I hope those that are well educated in this area will forgive me if I've made a mistake.TheCensorFencer (talk) 22:56, 24 January 2016 (UTC)