Talk:Ranma Saotome

Physical Abilities

400 to 1000 tonnes = 400,000 to 1,000,000 kg ~= 400 to 1000 m^3 of ice = 7.3 * 7.3 * 7.3 meter cube (or 10*10*10) = pure unadulterated bullshit.

Looks like I'm going to have to go through and make sure to clean out the original research out of this article over the weekend. How dreadfully tedious. It'll take quite some time to separate the bullshit from the halfway decent crap. Pity, I don't have the time to do it properly these days. --Xylix (talk) 04:54, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

No it is not 'bullshit'. It's completely accurate, and taken with a very wide approximation margin, which can be modified if you wish to make estimations, by checking the image yourself at the Ryoga section.

Estimation based on images is never accurate. Further it is Original research, which is specifically banned from the wikipedia. If you want to LINK to a website (or even mention such claims) that purports to have accurate information, feel free to do so. However, there is no basis as being presented as authoritative (unless produced by Rumiko, or a other legitimate source). Especially where there are OTHER sources available on the net that directly contradict such large capabilities, and indeed evidence presented in this very section.

Oh, and glancing at the Ryouga page, there is no image even vaugely legitimizing your claims. --Xylix (talk) 22:13, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Censoring anything you feel like is not acceptable. The OR claim can very efficiently be used to rationalise cutting out anything anybody feels like, as most of these pages are grounded and directly sourced in the foundation material, along with whatever interviews or other publications that were available. Dave (talk) 19:46, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Incidentally, I've actually gone through alot of these things in the past. I have no intention of removing facts, just numbers whose generation is produced by fan(boy)s, where upon the exact information is questionable at best. I won't even supply MY calculations, which I would contend are vastly more accurate... --Xylix (talk) 22:13, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Irrelevant, rude, and unprovoked out-of-nowhere insults notwithstanding, the fact of the matter is that nearly everything written here, and definitely on any supposedly reliable (which I only remember seeing one of, and that one is down as far as I know) fan-pages is inescapably OR, i.e. directly founded in the source material, hence it's generally used as a catch-all rationalisation to remove any specific thing someone has an irrational bias against (it should be noted that while highly outrageous by real-world standards this is still extremely low-scale compared to many other franchise characters), and the only point of interest is whether it's as close to objectively accurate as possible or not. Fan-pages 'contradicting' this by completely made-up numbers based on fanfiction stories, or citing less extreme occasions are basically irrelevant. The image of a roughly 400-tonne ice boulder being thrown [u]is[/u] as close to the word from the creator as we can get. Ryoga did do this. There is absolutely no way to get around it. Mikado is given as just short of 2 metres tall. You can check it yourself, and use basic math if you wish. The margin is currently taken in a more conservative and extremely wide range (200-700 tonnes) to avoid exaggerations and/or mistakes, but again, check it yourself if you'd like. It's not like the image isn't made completely open for public overview.

As for the old calculations I made, they're below. Feel free to improve them if you wish. Dave (talk) 18:00, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

I skimmed through the old math, and caught quite a few mistakes. Here is a more reliable version:

Ryoga threw a gigantic ice boulder a guesstimated distance of roughly 30 meters, and possibly another as well.. A Photoshop measure tool check of the original, full-sized, image gives the estimated mass of the part above the surface as: Mikado: 1.93 Thickness: Least: 1.2 (Middle) Most Clearly seen: 2.8 (Beginning of the “S”) Most implied furthest down: 3.8 Taken as very low estimated ‘average’ value: 2

Width top: About 11.3-11.5 Using 11

Shown length above the surface: Closest: 13.5 Furthest away: Apparently about 23 Using the average of 18

Density of ice: 917kg/m³

Best available estimate: 2m*11m*18m*917kg/m³= 3.63132*10^5kg

Let’s say that Ryoga threw it at a roughly 30 degree angle, i.e. h=30m/4=7.5m and vfull=sqrt(5)*vup.

Equating kinetic energy and potential energy to work out speed when the boulders are thrown gives: mgh=mvup²/2 where vup is velocity (m/s) along the vertical angle, g Earth's gravity (~9.82m/s²), and h is the apex height for the ballistic path (m).

vup=sqrt(2*gh) vup~sqrt(2*9.82*7.5) vup~sqrt(15*9.82) vfull~sqrt(15*9.82*5)m/s=27.1385334902m/s~27.14m/s (ignoring air friction) Let’s say that Ryoga used enough strength to throw them in 0.5 seconds, (slightly conservative estimation) then he would have had to use enough force for 54.28m/s² acceleration.

Using F=ma (Force=Mass*Acceleration), and taking total weight to be 6.87*10^5kg. F~54.28m/s² *3.631*10^5kg~1.971*10^7kg*m/s² =19.71MN.

Using the Kinetic Energy equation to estimate power output: KE=Efull=(mv^2)/2~3.631*(10^5)*(27.14^2)/2~1.337*10^8Jouls=133.7MJouls

Taking the energy as being used in 0.5 seconds gives the power: P~1.337*10^8J/0.5s~267.4MWatts

Using the PE equation, to estimate maximum weight he could lift above his head (roughly 2m) at a similar rate: Efull=PE=gmh Then using: Efull~133.7MJouls, g~9.82, h=2, gives m as: m=Efull/gh m~1.337*10^8/(10*2) m~0.6685*10^7kg~6.69kilotonnes

I.e: Early in the series Ryoga was able to exert energy roughly equivalent to lifting at least 6685 tonnes using a single arm. Roughly 13370 tonnes/13.37 kilotonnes in total then.

Lime pushing his limits by briefly holding apart the nearly cut in half plateau: Guesstimated total depth based on the picture with Ryoga in the ravine: 20m Guesstimated length based on the picture with Ryoga and Ranma standing before the chasm, taken as stretching roughly twice the visible segment: 28m Very guesstimated total width of the plateau based on that it took several seconds for female Ranma to run from the edge to the centre/Herb in the waterfall, and later Mousse a similar amount for Mousse & Ryoga, then adjusted downwards to accommodate for strangely differing perspective shots in other instances: 60m->80m

Density of pure bedrock used: 2.7tonnes/cubic metre

Lower bound: Mass~20m*28m*60m*2.7tonnes/m^3 = 90720tonnes Upper bound: Mass~20m*28m*80m*2.7tonnes/m^3 = 120960tonnes

Let’s say ‘around 100000 tonnes’ to be on the safe side.

It still makes more or less sense, given that Lime held apart nearly a hundred thousand tonnes in a closing ravine. Ryoga seemed to be about a 3rd as strong as Lime during their struggle much later in the series, so he apparently either went more powerful as he progressed, alternately there was a comparable bulk below the water surface, whichever you prefer. Dave (talk) 14:31, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Changes Made, and reasons _WHY_

about two years old (when their training trip began)

• Anime/Manga does not actual reference age, changed to very young

That's acceptable in combination with the shown image. Although it should be noted that Ranma was shown incapable of speech at the point of departing with Nodoka, so two years at most is a very reasonable gauge.

and more agile as a female.

• Note this is Anime only, but acceptable in the context.

Agreed. The speed was only directly mentioned in the anime (In the Mousse & Ryoga team-up episode I believe), although he was better at keeping up with Herb when in female form and Herb was in male, than the initial reverse, so I avoided cutting it away. At the very least he seems considerably better at dodging, but that could simply be due to being smaller.

Respectively: Easily shattering a 2.5m boulder with one blow; catching over a hundred explosion shrapnel fragments in at most 1-2 seconds; effortlessly swimming underwater with a 60-tonne boulder; withstanding 'vacuum-blades', capable of easily cutting through metres of steel, with only minor scratches.

• Boulder size is estimated, changed to 'very large' (If you want to estimate a size, put a clearer picture in)

The size was approximated by means of the closest previous instance where Taro's chimera form was clearly at least 4 metres tall by comparing it with the roughly 1.5m female Ranma, and then comparing that with the boulder it held and threw, which was more than half Taro's height, but that would make a 5-image composition all in all, which I've been reprimanded about that the image is bad enough as it is. It's a sequence after all. "Very large" is an exaggeration, at least in the terms I visualisethe term.

• Exact time of the catch is not known, but can be presumed longer than 2 seconds via the time needed to say "talk is cheap!", changed to seconds

Say "talk is cheap" in stressed battle tempo yourself, and try to time it. 0.5-2 seconds is a very fair gauge, but I used 1-2 seconds instead to be on the safe side.

• The "effortlessly swimming underwater with a 60-tonne boulder" is not a reasonable interpretation, changed to a more accurate: "guiding a enormous boulder through the water while swimming" Exact boulder mass is unknown (via earth density being from 1.5 -- lots of dirt, to 3.0ish -- heavy rock, and diameter ranging from aprox ~3m to ~3.5m -- 20 to 65 tonnes) Seeing as though an image is present, interested parties can estimate it on their own.

I used 2,7 tonnes/cubic metre by looking it up on Wikipedia, and given that these handy boulders are always pure bedrock in the less complicated Ranma world (when cut through or shattered there are no cavities or irregularities involved), I think that's a fair gauge. The approximate diameter should be listed. She was very explicitly shown as swimming at great enough speed to prevent the Oroshi from closing its maw on Akane, not simply directing the boulder while it was falling. That's misleading. There was also no boulder with Ranma as she was shown diving downwards right previously, so she must have picked it up from the bottom. She was also not shown as the least bit impeded by the rock in terms of speed to reach it that rapidly, or expression of fatigue, so "effortlessly" is accurate.

• Vacuum-blades cut through what appears to be a stone budda statue, not a steel one (they don't even MAKE steel budda statues, and if they did, they'd be hollow like all such statues... same with bronze for that matter). Minor Scratches distorts the level of injury actually sustained (it clearly hurt). Changed to "without serious injury".

Whether they exist in real life or not is irrelevant to the outlandish story context, but you're entirely correct. Steel seems to have been an assumption based on the'darkly metallic quality' of the image, possibly even hearing it somewere else. Excellent catch. Easily is correct, as they were previously shown slicing right through the statue as if it was melted butter, and continuing on their way unimpeded.

land 518 blows in a few seconds, during a brief ice-skating skirmish with Mikado Sanzenin

• That scene could have lasted anywhere from 5 seconds to 30. Changed to a short period of time.

I'd say 5-15 seconds, but othervise ok. I think "land 518 blows, during a very brief ice-skating skirmish" sounds more accurate.

Afterwards, he was able to land hundreds of punches on Ryoga so swiftly that it looked like a single strike, or catch over a hundred pebbles from the latter's Bakusai Tenketsu rock explosion within at most a few seconds. Thus he is able to move at supersonic speeds, but apparently only uses it in combat situations.

Lots of clean up here

• Hundreds of punches is hearsay from Akane, whose statement can be ignored by the virtue of the fact it looked like one punch to her. (How can you know the number, if you freely admit you can't count it?). Changed to innumerable

No, it's clearly the word of the author to describe the event to the reader in standard manga fashion, as it is completely pointless to insert in any other context. Akane was similarly able to precisely count the 518 punches in the Mikado fight, and was able to roughly gauge the swifter amount of strikes here as well, but inserting "observed as" or "mentioned as" seems like a good solution. It should be noted that Ryoga later goads Ranma by observing that he was turning tired from just throwing "a few hundred punches", and Ranma thinks "he's right", so 300-400 punches seems about right.

• Explosion times are unclear, changed to more vauge seconds.

• Supersonic speeds is removed. It is not supported by any evidence. Further, even if it were calculable (it is not without grossly tweaking the evidence), it takes so much proof that it constitutes a derivation from Original Research.

'Grossly tweaking' is completely unfair. A rough amount was stated out loud, and yes, a few hundred punches in 0.2 seconds would rate supersonic. Let's say that he punches Ryoga 200 times in 0.3 seconds, and moves his arm 0.3 metres forward in each blow, i.e. 0.6 m in total back-and-forth. These are very conservative estimations. That would make 0.6m*200/0.3s=400metres/second on average, with the speed of sound in "dry air with a temperature of 21 °C" given as 344 m/s, and I highly doubt "a normal blow" by trained fighter standards takes nearly 0.3 seconds. If there were indeed "several hundred" and not just a few, it could even make 0.6m*500/0.1s=3000m/s for all we know, even if I don't believe in that high an extreme. Regardless "supersonic" is kept very vague. It simply means swifter than sound (in air) in this context. A few seconds (2-5 or so) explosion time is kept inprecise enough to be accurate. It would make no sense if the violent eruptions shown would take longer to travel through the air, and synches up with Ranma's sentence.

large iron Buddha-statue splitting

• Stone not iron again.

Right you are. Most likely it was painted stone.

and immediately continue to fight afterwards

• Not immediately, he took some time to pick himself back up again. Immediately removed.

He pushed himself up immediately without stun damage. 2-3 surface-level bloody scratches were shown, but he was othervise unharmed.

(which, at the very least, would qualify him as bulletproof)

• Removed. The cutting nature of a mystical force like ki is such that it is impossible to make any real conclusions about anything on the basis of the damage it does, except again on the exact same object. (Incidentally, I have done research on Ranma's bullet proof level and concluded IIa conservative, IIIa not conservative..., but that won't be included as it is: original research).

No this is inaccurate speculation on your part about mystical properties. In the manga the blasts were simply shown/used as a physical force by Ranma, Ryoga, and Herb (although Happosai could use them to paralyse or create tangible gigantic manifestations as well), and this wasn't standard ki-blasts to start with, more similar to Ranma's and Kuno's air-pressure-swipes. Bulletproof is completely correct by comparing it to how much damage a handgun would do on a solid statue like that one.

managed to withstand exposure to Rouge's and Saffron's firestorms

• It'd be good to add a note that Ranma survived Saffron's firestorm with the help of flying boulders and Gekkaja (a potent ice artifact). But, I don't think this is too far from the spirit.

He was struck by Saffron's fire at the beginning without directly shielding himself, but I should probably insert "brief" before. Saffron's strongest blast would apparently instantly kill, or even vaporise him, but this was simply the regular output.

and has fallen hundreds of meters into solid stone with only minor bruisings.

• Again, "without serious injury" is more accurate here.

No. In the final arc, he, Mousse and Genma were not shown to have sustained any actual damage whatsoever efterwards beyond small shown bruises, while Ryoga didn't have any marks whatsoever at the time (he had travelled to Moscow at this point, without any marks, but may have simply recovered much swifter for all we know).

can either knock him out in one blow, or require a few to several shots, depending on the latter's focus.

• Depending on the latters focus is questionable. Ranma was clearly able to stand up to Ryouga's Perfect Shi Shi Hokodan, and arguably that is as much focus as Ryouga can get. Better to say "has knocked him out in one blow, and at another did not even with multiple hits"

Ranma was clearly being knocked out by a partial hit to the head by Ryoga's perfect Shi-shi Hokodan, which is the only time he took a strong blast by himself. He was previously shown as briefly knocked out by one shot from a strong regular version, while it took several shots before Ryoga dragged him home unconscious (apparently in that condition for considerably longer) over his shoulder right after the beginning confrontation. The middle one where Ranma and Ryoga blasted each other several times technically didn't show Ranma as unconscious, but he was unable to move, and would easily have been completely downed by another hit, so for conveniences sake it basically counts as the same thing, but you can reword it if you feel like it. The first image is in the fighting techniques page if you wish.

Simply being grazed by the outermost limit of the ultimate version was enough to instantly knock him out, despite attempting to lessen the impact with his weakened Moko Takabisha. Although a later, apparently vastly diminished/worn out (no change was noticeable in the size of the crater) attempt, during the second round of their fight, only stunned him for a minute at most, and he was able to handle them much better by distracting Ryoga into absorbing most of the impact.

• Perhaps a little too much Ranma vs. Ryouga detail here. We aren't really talking Ranma toughness in this paragraph anymore.

It seemed necessary, as the Shishi Hokodan was a really weird fight. It was hard for me to make sense of the wildly shifting power in the supposedly final version.

• Grazed is inaccurate, Ranma head was imbedded in the dirt. That's NOT a graze. (Not a full hit either).

• Note, the conclusion that the attacks were weaker is not evident.

The effect on Ranma and the crater size are the only gauges we have available, and thus the ones we have to use. The first and last blast were the only ones that seemed to have a stronger effect than the regular ones, and both were apparently weaker than the one he used to take out Lime in one strike, who is far more durable than Ranma, but then again, even the 'weak' hits were dispersed over a far wider area. If compressed these should arguably strike much harder at the inflicted area. "Grazed" was the best word I could think of at the time for a 1/4th hit, but I agree that "partial hit" is better.

As for "withstanding a clearly more powerful ultimate version" this was not said in the manga, or at least not in the translation that I read. Ranma 'rode'/synchronised his movement with the falling final blast, and distracted Ryoga into a changed emotional state which made him hit with the full brunt of the local effect (Ryoga literally couldn't have been hit with nearly all of the force in the small area he occupied) along with the sucker-punch to the head. Right afterwards Ranma also collapsed. To me it looked more like he 'funnelled' the sphere/impact at Ryoga while 'riding it' himself, vaguely similar to the Herb finale, and lessening the force by spreading out the remaining energy over a longer impact time, or some other "I'm in tune with and channel it" pseudo-explanation. It seemed very strange to me overall, but was left in the open regarding interpretation. Perhaps a "in the first instance he was prepared, but struck in the head, while in the last he synchronised his movement, and absorbed the dispersed force with his back, which is less sensitive" is the most reasonable explanation. To satisfy everyone I've simply written in the sequence as shown without comment.

, so it apparently depends on the force his grandmaster puts into them.

• Removed, it could be the grandmaster, or it could be how the blow lands, or it could be Ranma's mental/martial arts preparation for the blow.

No. Happosai can easily knock out Taro-monster in one blow, which is far more impact-resistant than Ranma, but at other occasions he hits Ranma dead in the face, with the only given effect that the latter is covered in soot, but othervise simply annoyed. This is accurate.

Ranma's strength seems to be portrayed somewhat inconsistently.

I'm stopping here for now --Xylix (talk) 23:14, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

NOTE AFTER THIS PART THIS SECTION SEEMS TO VEER OFF CONSIDERABLY

It is likely going to be necessary to trim this down a bit, to get more to the root of Ranma's physical ability (as can be supplied by evidence), and not which is supplied by Original Research. This section should also be modified and trimmed so that it conveys are more general idea of Ranma's physical abilities, not how he fairs to each and every attack.

I suggest about 1 paragraph to each of the following:

• Strength (Lifting weights)
• Toughness (Taking hits)
• Speed (attack, and RUNNING)
• Other stuff (Jumping, Movement, etc...)

I wasn't the one who originally wrote the last 3 columns, simply cleared up a few errors, but some of it is relevant regarding his combat attitude, and I didn't want to destroy other people's work too much, so it seemed appropriate to keep them. I've made a small attempt to rewrite them though. What is known as fact is that Ranma has stated to Mousse and Hikaru that he always fights full force in an 'honourable battle between men', and he observably tends to fight 'fair' unless he's outmatched, in which case he resorts to trickery and distractions. The "expects others to use the same conduct" is probably fanfic-stuff, but I wasn't sure so I didn't delete it, although he was overconfident against Cologne, and Taro did get a big advantage by cheating all the time. I've tightened it up somewhat, but it could definitely get better.

Again, avoid original research. If you want to do it elsewhere fine. If you want to LINK to it from here, and even discuss (breifly) the claimed abilities. Fine... so long as it doesn't get out of hand. But this isn't a warzone for each and every person who has his own personal calcs to post them up. Especially given that the wikipedia cannot properly store the arguments in support of any of these numbers.

With the exception of Wot Club, which had an excellent speed estimation (It's been a long time since I browsed that site, and I don't think it's active any more) I don't think there are any reliable links with gauges of these occasions available, and this wouldn't make them any more reliable than what's written here, most likely less so by my experience (leading to bias) of the fan community virtually always using fanfiction cruft to make things up out of thin air. I've also tried to find the extremes rather than 'everyday instances' to make as accurate gauges as possible. Everything is supported by image 'evidence', as far as is possible to do so under the circumstances (taking a known character size as gauge, and looking up the density), as far as I'm aware, but I'm not allowed to upload any more images directly to the pages as per a recent Talk agreement. I don't know if linking to outside displays is acceptable by Wikipedia standards, if that is what you're suggesting, but it could be an idea. However, I could upload a few pictures strictly as examples for the Talk, but these would be speedily (3-5 days perhaps) deleted.

You should also not expect too high commitment at this point. It's tiresome enough as is, as I've mostly grown bored, as I have many other things to do, and don't get paid for it, so I have extremely limited interest (and time) to completely rewrite something that took quite some time to assemble, and I find as very nearly as reliable as it gets under these very restrained circumstances in the first place, definitely far more so than any Ranma page I have ever seen. Even including Wot Club, as it used very 'everyday lows' for strength limits, and wrote up extremely suspicious thin air stats. Help to greatly improve the quality is very appreciated of course. Dave (talk) 20:15, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

References

Needs a home or deletion

I ripped this out of the physcial ability section because, it isn't about Ranma's physical abilities. --Xylix (talk) 23:36, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

His naïveté or overconfidence have been taken advantage of by new foes. Unless he cannot possibly win without extensive cheating, whether through trickery, severe distraction or sucker-punch combinations, (like in battles against Happosai, Herb, Ryoga or Taro-monster) he tends to fight fairly while expecting them to follow the same conduct. Craftier opponents have sometimes used this assumption to their advantage against him. An example of this is when Cologne held back her true power, allowing Ranma to believe that he had the edge. With this she was able to trick him into a deal: If he lost, he would marry Shampoo immediately. Flushed with his success so far, he recklessly accepted. Afterwards, Cologne unleashed her true power, surprising and nearly defeating him. Taro has also managed to goad him into repeated sucker-punch attacks.

It often seems like Ranma cannot, or will not, accept the possibility of defeat, regardless of how outmatched he is, although his confidence can be shaken enough to not be able to use the Moko Takabisha. He generally takes every opportunity to brag about his inflated sense of skill, arrogant in the face of hurt feelings or possible payback, a mistake he has sometimes made after temporarily tricking and trapping/sucker-attacking the overwhelmingly superior Happosai.

As the story progresses, Ranma learns and uses numerous martial art styles, several of them ridiculous or virtually useless, such as Martial Arts Figure Skating, even though he initially couldn't skate, Martial Arts Tea Ceremony, Martial Arts Dining, and Martial Arts Cheerleading. Although he's never been seen to have use for them outside of the original environment, he commonly proports himself to be able to win any competition in which martial arts are involved, but frequently has to use unorthodox methods against superior foes. Regardless, his confidence and unwillingness to ever accept defeat has so far enabled him to, in some manner, handle most challenges in his path.

Some of it is relevant to his general approach to fighting, but I made a quick attempt to trim out some suspicious parts, made it a bit more matter-of-fact, and compressed it down somewhat. Feel free to improve it further:

As noted previously Ranma has stated that he tends to fight upfront at full force against male opponents, as he considers this honourable combat, but also recurrently uses trickery, severe distractions or sucker-punch combinations if he cannot win through other means, or if it is most expedient for the situation. His overconfidence has been taken advantage of by Cologne by holding back her true power, allowing Ranma to believe that he had the edge, and tricking him into accepting a bet to marry Shampoo if he lost. He has also had trouble adjusting to calculated traps, as Taro managed to goad him into repeated sucker-punch attacks, in an area filled with water-traps.

Ranma has repeatedly been unable or unwilling to accept defeat, regardless of how outmatched he is, or how irrational this may turn his behaviour, although his confidence can be shaken enough to not be able to use the Moko Takabisha. He recurrently brags about his inflated sense of prowess, arrogant in the face of hurt feelings or possible payback.

Ranma has proported himself as able to win any competition in which martial arts are involved, and as the story progresses, he learns to use several outrageous or virtually useless styles, such as Martial Arts Figure Skating, even though he initially couldn't skate, Martial Arts Tea Ceremony, Martial Arts Dining, and Martial Arts Cheerleading, although he's never been seen to use them outside of the original environment.

General

"Using diplomacy, money, or blackmail seems too complicated, or in the last case, dishonourable for his tastes."

That sentence is wrong if your going by the manga. Ranma often tries diplomacy, he tried it with Ryoga, Mouse, the various fiancee's when they are mad at him, Ukyo during his intro, etc... He doesn't use money because no one is interested in it except for Nabiki and he doesn't have a lot (he did give Nabiki money in volume 35/33 VIZ). He has also attempted blackmail in volume 35 he tried to blackmail Nabiki with a letter to Kuno he found in her room that he thought was a love letter to Kuno. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.96.3.38 (talk) 04:58, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

---

How is Ranma comparatively weaker than Ryoga? We've never seen the full extent of either characters strength and Ranma's weaker female form was capable of supporting Ryoga while Ryoga lifted the massive amount. Didn't Ranma in one instant physically over power Ryoga? In the manga during an early volume Ranma was able to tie Ryoga up in a not and dangle him over water wouldn't Ranma have to be physically as strong or stronger than Ryoga to do that? Sure Ranma doesn't go around and break stuff as often as Ryoga but that doesn't mean Ranma is weaker only that he has better control of his strength. It is entirely possible male Ranma is as strong or even stronger than Ryoga. There is nothing in the manga that shows Ranma being physically weaker than Ryoga. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.15.132.10 (talk) 19:00, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

No, not really. Ranma was shown with vastly greater speed at the time, since he had just underwent Cologne's training. Enough speed difference can get plenty of leverage to twist someone anywhere. In the following Bakusai Tenketsu battle he wasn't shown as stronger than Ryoga. It took quite a few volumes for Ryoga to catch up in swiftness again. I scanned through the entire manga for references of strength for each of them, and I got Ranma: Shown maximum: 400-1000 tonnes (one ice boulder, but possibly twice that if both were equal). Very likely several times higher.

Ryoga: Explicit maximum roughly 52,000 tonnes = Estimation of throwing 687 tonnes 30 meters. (Personal estimation of a single said ice boulder) Also threw a 20 tonne rock 100-200 metres to save Ranma from Herb's killing strike. Shown as overwhelmingly stronger during the "Yoiko" arc, when almost knocking Ranma out with a playful finger-jab. Almost crushed his ribs by a casual hug during Akari's introduction arc. I think I listed a few others.

Lime: Shown maximum: A few hundred thousand tons. Strength in the series is relative to chi-level, as shown with Happosai, and Ryoga was shown as having far more innate power than Lime when completely knocking him out with his indirect and dispersed chi-shot. So I'd personally guess that Ryoga is about 4 times stronger than Ranma under regular circumstances. Probably around the 100,000 tonnes level midway through the series, but has the potential to reach somewhere in-between Lime and Happosai level, if he used it all within himself. Then again, while Ranma has a comparatively much weaker chi-reservoir, he could probably potentially boost himself quite a bit further as well, to almost keep up. So, while I generally like Ranma a bit better, I really don't think he comes close in terms of pure power, potentially or othervise. Dave (talk) 21:01, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually in the breaking point battle Ranma could have been stronger than Ryoga and it wouldn't have mattered since Ryoga was tough enough that Ranma's strength wasn't enough to over come it. If Ranma was weaker or stronger than Ryoga is unknown from that battle. When Ranma tied Ryoga into a knot Ranma himself said he was stronger than Ryoga. Because Ryoga was shown to lift more than Ranma does not necissarily mean he is stronger than Ryoga. Ranma never had a need to lift that large of an amount. Ryoga hugging Ranma hard doesn't prove that Ryoga is stronger only that Ryoga's hugs are hard, If Ranma were to clone himself and hug himself it could very well be possible that the hug would have the same effect. As for chi in relation to strength I don't believe that. While chi can maybe boost strength I don't think that it is the sole factor. Ranma's ki reserves can easily be as strong as Ryoga's as well, Only Ryoga can reach depths of emotion that Ranma doesn't. Ki is boosted by strength of emotion Ryoga feels depressed stronger than Ranma feels anything. So I think that male Ranma can be as strong as Ryoga and see nothing to counter that. Ryoga is tougher though but I see nothing that proves him stronger than male Ranma. (male Ranma is tougher, has more ki, and stronger than female counter part.) (Lime did not have strongest ki Herb did but Herb wasn't as strong as Lime). BTW I'm not the same poster as the one who brought the topic up.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.213.14.240 (talk) 18:23, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

No, stronger in fighting ability/speed+skill, not weight lifting. This the only thing he had been training with and against Cologne. As for the battle itself Ranma never had an advantage in any grapple situation, but then neither had Ryoga. However, shortly afterwards during the Yoiko incident, Ryoga was in fact shown as overwhelmingly stronger in a physical sense, not merely the woman/man strength difference, but winning by a casual finger jab, and that was hardly the only incident where Ranma ended up scared of his power here. Male Ranma was also unable to lift a 'mere' 100 ton iron bell, and female Ranma had to focus for a long time to merely split a 3m diameter boulder, while Ryoga shattered an 8m diameter bedrock platform without trying/noticing. Ranma was unable to break the grip of Kumon Ryuu, who had to really try to almost break his ribs, and couldn't break Ryoga's, which had similar effect when it was just casual conditioned reflex. If he cloned himself he wouldn't have been so mismatched. Have you given an even wrestling mate a 'hug'? You'd have to try incredibly hard to even come close to breaking his ribs from a straightforward position, not just the one you give your mother. Fact of the matter is, I've been extremely fair about this.

Edit: My apologies. I went from memory here, and just checked. While he couldn't break Kumon Ryu's grip, I misremembered the Akari introduction story. Ryoga only gave 1-2 second hugs here and then lets go when he immediately came to his senses. The first time he made Ranma severely hurt, and the second Ranma dropped to the floor, apparently unconscious for at least 20-30 seconds, before coming to. Sorry. Dave (talk) 14:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

And no, Ranma's ki reserves have most definitely not been shown as strong as Ryoga's. His strongest emotions are his confidence and determination, and the force of either has never been shown to remotely compare. Any speculation in that direction is pure thin air fabrication. As I've understood it chi/ki is their life force and spiritual strength. I.e. their ability to channel it is related to how much spiritual/emotional & physical force they can muster. The emotions are what enables them to synch with it, while Herb seems of enough expertise to have no need for it to freely use his entire store. Ranma has been plenty emotional either with confidence or determination when using it, but apparently simply doesn't have as much spiritual strength/ability to feel. These are not two unrelated qualities. It's a combined spiritual/physical reserve, or at least according to what I've read about the concept, which admittedly isn't too much, but it's the way Takahashi seems to use it. Of course Ranma, might very well be able to do better if he used all of his emotional spectra in conjunction, but then so might Ryoga. All we really can say is that they could probably do as well all the time as they've done at shown best.

The physical size of the combatants is apparently mostly unrelated to their power, as Happosai's giant chi-aura is the by far strongest character in the series. All the fighters apparently get their superhuman power from their chi talent, much like in Dragonball, since chi/aura is consistently noted as what they are using for any exceptional techniques. Herb was able to use his chi as blasts yes, while Lime couldn't, despite seeming considerably more powerful, but most chi-users can't. Regardless, you may very well be right here in that it's a combination thing. After all we don't know if Taro's chi increases with his body size. Maybe it's a chi level x body proportions thing? Perhaps Happosai's chi is so thoroughly immense that he can still outclass Taro-chimaera by a few dozen times, despite being a 0.5m midget? But then, if it's body energy + spiritual power shouldn't that have been included to start with? However, it is pretty certainly the main factor, or the Ranma cast would just be ordinary human martial artists.

In any case, I've listed every single example in their respective ability spaces, and as far as the manga is concerned Ryoga has a great edge in power. Seriously there are a long list of references there supporting my conclusion. I'm incredibly generous to even consider Ranma in the 25,000 tonnes cathegory given that he's done nothing to remotely warrant this claim, while Ryoga has. The fact that he's able to challenge Ryoga is the only reason he is considered close to the vicinity at all. The rest is 'what if' thinking on your part. If you want to use that personally (opinion, fanfic, whatever) feel free, but it is far too loose and unfounded to be used here. Every main direct comparison that I have been able to find is listed there, and I wrote in potential abers as well, such as the Akane log-crushing situation, and even an "he must be at least a tenth as strong himself, and quite likely considerably higher". I.e. undefined, even if it doesn't seem that way. It was a case of a whole lot of stuff pointing in the same direction. I've ransacked the volumes for Ranma references as well. Pretty much every one you see here has been found by myself. Seriously, read them both through thoroughly, and you'll probably understand why the conclusion was reached. It simply makes very good sense. Dave (talk) 18:23, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

To add a footnote here. Ryoga's profile does actually include the option that he at the very least is as strong as Ranma, and Ranma's own only sets a lower boundary. We're using what makes most sense, and I consistently remove/reword what I or someone else discover to be wrong. Dave (talk) 14:36, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Think about if/ -- If what you say is even remotely true.Explain how Ranma survive any hit by Ryoga?If Ryoga has both 10x strength/2xstamina/3xdefense and almost the same speed.How does Ryoga not instantly kill Ranma whenever he hit Ranma?How did Ranma survived getting by Ryoga ki blast from noon to night on the first day.(Male Ranma) How did female Ranma survived getting hit by Ryoga.(introduction) -- Strength difference?The only real evidence you got was the the golden bell.The rest of your argurment rest on the above people not realizing how much weaker females are in this show and how casual things by Ryoga is not actually casual.

Yoiko arc is not a reasonable arc to show Ryoga strength.He has not control what so ever of his strength.Therefore saying that it his casual strength that destroyed a female Ranma is absurd. Ryoga random destruction of stuff has also been shown by Ranma in Saffron arc when he destroy the boat and when Ranma recovered his strength after the moxibustion arc by destroying another vehicle. Herb Arc(Sorry females are alot weaker) Don't you remember Herb Arc and his devastating Dragon motion attack of his?It was completely invisible to Ranma because in his female form.The male version attacks was said to a blaze compare to female version.Going from invisible(female) to a blaze show that the female Herb attack was ALOT weaker than the male version. Ranma female form strength could easily 4+ times weaker in durability/strength than his male form.(half ki + female body) SHOW MALE RANMA EXAMPLES Conclusion Most of your example of Ryoga strength involves him inflicting damage to a female Ranma.Which have at most half if not even lower durability than male Ranma. I'll agree with you for now that if someone with equal strength can't hurt another person of similar build easily.But,Female Ranma doesn't have the same durability or build as male Ranma.Who durability is not equal to Ryoga.Using example of Female Ranma getting instantly knock out by Ryoga hugs does not show that Ryoga strength is superior to Ranma.It just show that you ignore Herb statement and also the superiority of males against female in durability/strength/speed(yes even speed). In essence.Ryoga knocking Ranma with bear hug doesn't show Ranma is weaker.Unless you like to be dishonest and forget about Ryoga mountain traveling background/breaking point which allow him to such durability that Ranma CAN'T do the same to him.Even presuming equal strength. PS: STOP REFERENCING RYU.We got nothing to compare Ryu to.You're wasting our time by referencing him constantly.

Moouse would've defeated female Ranma.Female Ranma was fighting equally with Ryoga at the start of the show.It didn't show Ranma being faster or anything like that. They both landed solid hits on each other. Both stood up or continue fighting like nothing.

Female enraged brainwashed Ranma was able to hurt Ryoga with her single punches in the later arcs.This imply that Ranma strength has increased greatly between the arc.At the same time Ryoga speed has also increased. Sadly not to the same level as Ranma.

---

Amaguriken is purely a technique to increase one's speed, it is not an actual attack

• True, it was originally a speed exercise in the manga. However, it's used as a Hundreds-Hand-Slap-style special attack in the anime. -- SAMAS.

LGBT?

I notice Ranme has been put in the Category:LGBT characters in comics category, assumedly because some think his transfromations from male to female and back again classify him as "transexual". But is this really the case? I seem to belive that a character should only be considered "transexual" if they have undergone sex reassignment surgery. Ranma hasn't. It's a curse. Something magical in design. He does not wish for it to happen. He does not experience feelings of wanting to be another gender. He should not be in this category. Unless he is in the category because while "female" he still retains attraction to other females, and thus might be considered "lesbian". But this also is a huuuuge stretch, as Ranma is indeed orginally male and straight. Any one else have some imput on this matter, because I think I'm gonna remove this category. (Animedude 09:51, 21 September 2006 (UTC))

I have a lot of background in this area. He is most certainly not transsexual, even if every transsexual would enjoy to be "afflicted" with his "curse." He certainly has a strong male gender-identity (as I recently edited into the article) and as such, is refered to by practically everyone with male pronouns, even when he's in his female form. "He shows off his female chest," etc. As such, you're definitely correct, he should not apply as appropriate for the LGBT category. He is neither homosexual, bisexual, nor is he transsexual, as he has a consistent gender-identity and body. --Puellanivis 20:38, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, if something is a curse or not dpends on the nature of the recipient. To a heterosexual man with a strongly and proudly male identity it would be. To someone who feels greatly out of place in his/her gender it would likely be a blessing. Dave 18:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

That's why I put the words afflicted and curse in quotes. --Puellanivis 02:38, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Good one folks!! I thought about fixing this in my dream and forgot... Whoops, forgot to sign. BrianGo28 (talk) 13:09, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Fancruft

There's plenty of fancruft and repetitive information that you can find on other caracter pages in this article, can someone work on this? I'm working on the pantyhose Taro, Rogue and other bios, so I don't have the time to do it now.Facer 00:18, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Translations of Special Techniques' Names

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the English translations of the special techniques should be refined; taking "Hiryū Shōten Ha" as an example, it should roughly translate to "Flying Dragon Ascension Blast", according to a FREELANG Japanese-to-English dictionary. -- Fyori Auricor.

A-Class article

This article was assessed as A-Class however there was no concensus reached anyway, it has not passed a peer review and does not even have any references. I have assessed it properly as B-Class. --Squilibob 05:39, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Ranma's Alter Ego's

• Excuse me, but I was wondering if I could add a list and description of all of Ranma's disguises or aliases like, Yoiko Hibiki, Ranko Tendo, Ryoga's fake fiancee, Cu (of the Cupid sisters), and etc. Xer 05:01, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Cheat list?

Would anyone be interested in compiling one of these (i.e. showing 'her' or someone else's breasts, knocking someone out from behind or using a severely distracting statement to get someone off guard for sucker-punches/attacks, trying with scheming where direct confrontation fails etc)? I'm currently reading through the manga for reference-lists for some other stuff, but the whole 'Ranma is an honourable warrior, who is never petty, cheats or is very inconsiderate toward other people's feelings out of either ignorance or egoism' bias of the current article seems extremely strange to someone with a strict manga familiarity like myself.

I mean, Ranma is obiously one of the nicest characters in the series, but that's in relation to a roster where noone beyond Kasumi and Doctor Tofu seems all-round good (and they're kind of boring because of it). He's never been supposed to be an unblemished paladin, but basically a petty immature jerk with a big heart, capacity for brave self-sacrifice and great competitive spirit. Someone with enough faults for ordinary people to relate to him.

Also, perhaps it would be a good idea to start creating manga reference lists for each major character, which note down all characteristic actions good or bad, for reference to anyone who wishes to get a grasp on them (fanfiction writers or ordinary fans)? I've started noting down a few for Ryouga & Nabiki and I think someone already created a [u]major[/u] one for Akane somewhere on some unrelated website. Some colaborative effort might be needed here given the workload. Dave 15:28, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Although that sort of thing is interesting, it doesn't really have a place here as it's getting too specific. As to why you see the bend in the stuff, it probably because a lot of it is a mix of anime/manga with major fanfiction influences in there as well. I personally prefer the anime myself. Now, one thing I wouldn't mind seeing is a breakdown of anime vs manga differences in character, but even that I suspect would end up being overly specific as well. Derekloffin 19:24, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't know. These articles are _supposed_ to be as informative and referenced as possible for a good reliability ranking and I think that kind of thing would be extremely helpful (especially for fanfiction writers who've been caught up in various myths and then continued to spread them onwards) if we either shortened it down to references for their defining traits (like that 'Nabiki's major schemes' list I created for the main series page, but then erased due to space shortage, or battle track records), or started to cite manga chapter reference lists (the manga is the source material from the actual creator of the characters and should thus be used as the final say reference about personality traits) at the end. The comparison between anime & manga personalities which you suggested is another good idea in conjunction with this.

I mean these pages are supposed to be informative for anyone who wants to go in-depth, not just brainwash them into believing whatever nonsense someone wants them to believe. If space is the main content we could always simply create a list of main characteristics with the standard Wikipedia links to the major occasions where this trait has been displayed. If we stuck with that we could actually boot these articles up from B-class to A-class. I could start a few layouts which other users would then be inclined to fill in with their own research'. We actually have a chance to clean up the immense perception mess that way and give everyone access to easily referable fact-sheets. (Small 'peak feats' sections are another idea. I.e. 'Ryouga threw 400-550 metric tons of ice around 20 metres during the ice rink competition.' 'Ranma fell several hundred metres while carrying 4 girls on his back, but slowed down the descent and broke his legs from the effort.' 'Ranma managed to land x hundred punches in under a second' 'Happosai stopped Taro-bull with a single finger until he was distracted.' 'Lime kept a vast fissure from closing by his arms alone.')

A 'broken myths' section might be another idea (and yeah if people puncture me with facts I'll immediately bend over as well). I.e. 'Akane uses a hammer: No she uses different things. Most frequently a shinnai.' 'Kasumi says 'Oh my' all the time and is a dimwit: No in the manga she definitely doesn't and while she's frequently tranquil/'wa-keeping'/oblivious she's occasionally observant and wise.' 'Mousse will get to marry Shampoo if he defeats her or Ranma: No in Shampoo's initial appearance the rule of killing/marriage was only referred to outsiders and in Mousse's first appearance it was stated that Shampoo's rebuke of his advances when they were 3 holds true no matter what he does. Disincluding the Kiima fight in the last chapter he's shown far superior battle mettle to Shampoo, so that's not the problem.' 'Ranma is strictly honourable: No he cheats and tries to fool others more than any other character (but mainly because he appears more).' 'Ranma tries to find a 'loophole in an imagined contract' and expose Ryouga: Remotely possible, in the first few chapters, but afterwards he seems very dedicated towards keeping it.' 'Nabiki helps her family to pay their bills and cares about them: No she's shown as more willing than the rest to spend Soun's money, extremely unwilling to spend he own, and has gladly sold out all of them for money and petty pride. She's the only character who's been repeatedly drawn as a devil by Takahashi herself.' 'Shampoo is sweet & cuddly: She's willing to chop down a gagged & bound victim in her path, if she can blame it on someone else.' 'Akane is a rabid lunatic who hates boys: Actually she only hated boys while she was routinely attacked by them every morning. After that it hasn't been referenced at all and while she easily gets hurt/upset it doesn't automatically lead to abuse.' 'Ryouga is a lecherous pervert: No he's the most consistently prudish character in the entire series. It's been explicitly stated that he sees himself as Akane's protector in P-chan form and will gladly lay down his life for her or withstand her unconscious nightly abuse in this 'service, despite being virtually defenceless.' etc, with thorough chapter references. I didn't manage to find that enormous/overambitious Akane reference page, but if someone else could it would be a good ideato link to it and similar sources at the end. Dave 09:23, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Informative, yes, but this isn't a debunking page. I have tons of myths I'd love to debunk, but this isn't the place for them as most are grounded in the fan interpretations. Fan interpretations are not supposed to be here in the first place, and because of that neither is the debunking of those. That's not to say you can't neutralize any unfair comments, and if you get guff you can justify such by providing evidence on the talk page (just be carefully you're not interpreting yourself, because however much evidence may support certain interpretations, it is still an interpretation unless it is stated in the canon as fact). Also, again you have to remember, this isn't manga specific. A lot of this also comes from the anime where characters are different, and if you start favoring one, you'll get smacked by the other. And lastly, you just ASKING for trouble with that kind of a page. I would dispute several of those above as being unproven, in some cases false. That sort of thing is okay for a private webpage, but not for an encyclopedia entry. You just asking for an edit war. Derekloffin 10:22, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, all right, never mind the debunking section, but I think general chapter by chapter reference files for shown actions and characteristics, battles, extent of abilities etc would be a good idea and considerably more unbiased than any alternative. They would also be open for others to add new referenced information or create modifications. I don't at all mind that. My objective is that they actually use the source material as a basis. As for characteristics, I do heavily maintain that the character creator has the final say, so, yes, the manga should definitely be used as the main basis in this regard, rather than the more 1-dimensional and heavily deviated patterns in the anime. Dave 10:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I would disagree about manga being the main basis. Personally, I find many of it characterizations downright awful and they are the 1 dimensional ones. There are two sets of characterizations out there, like it or not, and you have to respect the existence of both. Doesn't mean you have to mix and match, but don't deny them. Derekloffin 10:35, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

So the hired help for the anime have more say about the characters than the actual creator intentions? That doesn't make any sense. Btw: Which of the above statements do you disagree about? I think most of them have been explicitly stated, but I'm willing to reevaluate. Dave 10:39, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I didn't say they had more say, just that both must be considered. What the creators intentions were only really matter if you're talking about exactly that. If you're going to go talk about Superman, you don't ignore everything done in the comic after Jerry Siegal left. That he and Shuster were the creators doesn't matter, Superman's character goes beyond what they made. Beyond that it is just more informative here to deal with both equally. You get more information when you say 'Joe hates boats in the manga' then if you just say 'Joe hates boats'. Derekloffin 18:30, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I suspected you might use that viewpoint, but there's a vast difference between a creator-owned property with a very finite, concluded story-span and a limited amount of references, and a 68 year old business-owned never-ending/ongoing/regurgiated franchise which has been consistently revaluated and reinterpretated by hundreds of sanctioned sources and all types of media over the years. At that level the iconic interpretation has been diluted/transformed into countless avenues to the point where virtually any type of characterisation can be formed from it. Comparatively, if we're stuck with two roughly equally large quantities released during the same time span, I'd definitely give the undiluted vision straight from the source a final say for actual characterisation references, if writers actually intend to pay respect to the creator and sandbox they're playing in (especially given that large parts of it consists of reinterpretations of previous manga sequences). That said, I kind of like your idea about a comparison section between manga & anime.

Given that you're more familiar with the anime and seem sensible I might take the opportunity to ask about the various 'Akane the militant feminist, lesbian commando, man-hating torturing axe-murderess/substitute for a lot of anger towards several horrible ex-girlfriends', 'Kasumi saying 'Oh my' in every second sentence', 'Ryouga who sprouts 'Ranma prepare to die!!!!' at the drop of a hat' etc 1-track spins. Are they strictly motivated by the anime alone or did various fanfiction writers create the myths almost from scratch? I've heard different accounts in this regard. Dave 22:41, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Too many indents... let's start fresh. From what I know the Akane hatred actually most often is spouted by those who seem to be manga devotees. I never understood it myself, but irrational hatred of comedic characters never made much sense to me anyway. This is mostly just selective reading/watching of either source and isn't limited to either one. The Oh My stuff if Viz Dub as far as I understand it. Even in the Japanese she uses a wide variety of verbage. Although even this is massively overdone by various fans. The prepare to die thing I'm almost certainly do to limited exposure people (guys who read/watch the first bit of the story and suddenly think they know everything). A lot of the myths are actually due to that last crowd. Derekloffin 00:36, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm probably unfair in pushing the responsibility towards the anime, rather than the interpreters.

As for irrational hatred towards fictional characters, it depends on the type of story. If it's serious enough and you repeatedly see a character gleefully torture, abuse, humiliate and murder lots of people, this certainly does breed distaste, as is intended (though not fanatic lasting distaste). To not react at all would imply that the reader is enither completely detached/uninterested in the work, sees nothing wrong with the actions, or has all of his/her capacity for anger focused on other(/real world?) sources, alternately simply enforces a strict spiritual control out of sheer principle (bottles up or disperses the negativity through meditative exercises). On the other hand, regarding (usually) less serious entertainment pieces like Ranma I don't seem capable of developing an actual 'grudge' simply by reading/watching them. I can however get disturbed by the context other people put them in, if done frequently enough and with enough fervor. I.e. if people consistently try to build a bridge to reality and say that it's acceptable behaviour to hurt and murder others for your own amusement/because they annoy you, which is the _reason_ that they identify/sympathise with this character and/or transparently try to excuse them through 180 degree personality changes brought by intentionally falsified information, this generally makes me annoyed when confronted with it. Dave 11:42, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Reference footnotes

If anyone is willing to research for the profile pages, I've set up characterisation reference pages in my sandbox section: http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/User:David_A for all the neccessary 'chapter-by-chapter' notes. Dave 18:45, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Article Getting long

This article is currently sitting at 45k, and that's getting awfully long for a single character article. I would seriously consider a review to see what is necessary as this is starting to suffer from bloat. Refer to Wikipedia:Article size. Derekloffin 16:57, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Ditto to that. We could always begin with cutting away the redundant rival section, and more blatantly unsourced statements and columns. Dave 18:12, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

The rivals section should focus on those particular characters' relationships with Ranma and why they're adverse to him. Their abilities and techniques are already addressed in detail elsewhere. --BrokenSphere 23:31, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Mousse entry in rivals section

In looking at this, it seems that the specific info re. Mousse's 2nd and 3rd fights with Ranma can be taken out and the entry still reads fine, for the sake of brevity and trying to overall trim the article length. --BrokenSphere 18:41, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I tend to agree. Rival stuff here should be in broad terms. Specifics can be handled on that character's main page. Derekloffin 18:52, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. I actually think the entry reads pretty fine, and it isn't particularly long. I'm not sure how to shorten it down without cutting into related sentences. Dave 19:25, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I've made an attempt. Is this ok? Dave 19:28, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Cut it down and tightened it up. If something along these lines works, we can try and apply it as much as possible to the other rivals. --BrokenSphere 20:39, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I suppose that works, although I fixed the last sentence. However, I'm not sure about cutting the rest much. Ryoga's section is all relevant to their rather complex relationship, rather than reverting to stereotype, and the rest are short as it is. Dave 20:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ranma2.jpg

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Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 03:50, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Oh please...(About Shi-Shi Hokodan)

"Shi-Shi Hokodan" was never a technique created to clear out cave-ins, or to help blow tunnels through the earth. That's "Bakusai Tenketsu".

"Shi-Shi Hokodan" is a technique that allows the user to concentrate his/her depression and anger into his/her chi. (Which is stronger if the user is more depressed.) BrianGo28 (talk) 12:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

No. In its introduction story it was said to have been created as a supplement to the Bakusai Tenketsu, and used to clear out the rubble the former creates. It was used to clear out a cave-in when Ryoga was introduced to it, and he blew a tunnel through the earth Ranma was standing on, when the latter first encountered it. Dave (talk) 13:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I've read the Korean version of the manga, so anything I say might be a little different from the English version, but I'm sure it won't be a problem. And the Korean version is probobly the most simmilar to the origanal(Jappenese). As I recall (and I've just checked it) that funny man with a saftey hat said that Ryoga would need a stronger attack to get out of the tunnel, but he didn't say why it was created. And Ryoga said that "unlike 'Bakusai Tenketsu', 'Shi-Shi Hokodan' is used to attack people too". And about that tunnel... I don't remember seeing any tunnel when Ryoga was first seen using it. Is this from the Anime? I haven't watched that yet.... BrianGo28 (talk) 23:34, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

It's in the manga too. He appears by blasting a hole to the surface, and Ranma happens to be there to see it, and then Ryoga uses it on Ranma. As to what is said, the engineer doesn't say it was made for that purpose, only that Ryoga will need it to get out. Ryoga is the one that draws the conclusion that it was created for that purpose. However, in the translation he does say 'Perhaps' so I do think it is fair to say that it isn't a for sure thing, but Ryoga is talking like this is what he was told. It's in vol 20, page 18. Derekloffin (talk) 00:31, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

All right then. I had forgotten about this for a while but I've just remembered it. I'm going to delete the part that says it was created to "clear out cave-ins, or to blow tunnels through the earth". Please don't change it back again. Ryoga usually uses it for fighting instead of breaking rock anyway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by BrianGo28 (talk • contribs) 04:20, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Personality

"Ranma apparently has little respect for authority figures, such as his father, his teacher Hinako Ninomiya, or Principal Kuno."

I agree this discription should stay in but it does to a point neglect to mentiosn Ranma's apparent respectfulness towards Soun Tendo, Kasumi Tendo, and his mother Nodoka. Perhaps it should be edited to say little respect for certain authority figures such as Happosai for instance. Just a thought. 216.201.48.26 (talk) 03:42, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

Good point. He's always respectful to Soun for giving him room and board. Perhaps "little respect for obnoxious, pushy, and/or bad authority figures" would be better? Dave (talk) 21:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

It really has to do with how he is treated by some of the above-mentioned. BrokenSphere^{Msg me} 17:10, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I disagree with Daves proposed change, not because its wrong but because I think its too wordy. Perhaps it should read "dis-honorable persons such as his father Genma and Master Happosai, and little respect for authority figures that abuse their position such as Principal Kuno."

Or perhaps include a mention of the characters he does show respect for saying in conclusion "Although . . ."

Just a thought.216.201.48.48 (talk) 02:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, Hinako does take her job seriously, and Ranma's been known to fight her even when she's honestly trying to help him, so it's probably not so much because they're dishonourable, but because they challenge his pride/are seen as pushy and/or challenging. Another note against using "dishonourable" is that technically speaking even Happosai fights fairer than he does, as do most of his opponents (excepting Mousse a few times) and Genma about even, as the one who taught him this approach. Dave (talk) 12:08, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Ambiguous references

Some of the references in this article are so bad that they may refer to multiple sources. Volume and chapter numbers are not enough for references. -- allen四names 03:24, 3 November 2009 (UTC)