Talk:Prestige picture

Downfall discussion

I think it’s a bit early to say that prestige pictures are in a downfall because films like She Said and Tár performed below box office expectations. I read both articles listed as references and both of them don’t necessarily confirm that the popularity of prestige pictures is over, or that audiences are rejecting them because the films are perceived as Oscar bait. The authors are more so making hypothetical predictions based on the current state of cinema. I think any discussions on the box office performance of films need to take into account that streaming has upended the moviegoing industry, and more people are seeing films (that includes prestige pictures) at home than at cinemas. Or that section can be reworded to be more specific, because lower grosses for films like Tár has not stopped its awards chances and it is still a frontrunner for Best Actress. Open to your thoughts on the matter, @HM2021. Spectrallights (talk) 05:10, 23 January 2023 (UTC)

Sam Mendes, director of another negatively effected awards season film Empire of Light just commented on the matter. Prestige cinema is indeed in grave danger despite the box office failures not stopping awards chances. HM2021 (talk) 05:05, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Mendes’ comments are still considered opinions, not objective facts. A way to rephrase the section could be, "Some film directors and industry insiders have declared prestige films are on a downswing in popularity, due to disappointing box office returns for several prestige films in the fall of 2022." You can even cite Mendes’ quotes to support that, which helps give more context.

Does the “prestige pictures are dying” argument apply to films like Elvis and Everything, Everywhere? Spectrallights (talk) 10:04, 24 January 2023 (UTC)

Not to those two. It applied to every prestige film title released during the fall to winter: The Banshees of Inisherin, The Fabelmans, Babylon, Bones and All, Tár, Armageddon Time, She Said and Women Talking. Elvis and EEAAO were released before awards season even started. HM2021 (talk) 07:43, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Right, but the wording in the article says these particular films’ popularity suffered because "audience behavior towards these types of films was altered into viewing them as Oscar bait." All I propose is making this clearer and adding context, since there are viewers who chose to view these films at home on PVOD instead of going to the theater. If the audiences were refusing to see the films because of their perception as Oscar bait, then there should be a quote from the articles to back this up so it’s not original research.

Banshees, The Fabelmans, Women Talking, Tár, and Babylon all received Oscars nominations, so the argument that low box office returns affected their chances at awards consideration doesn’t hold up. Spectrallights (talk) 21:55, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

I've been looking at some of the wording and the sources that accompanied it (prior to it being excised from the article) and it is pretty clear that HM2021 is constructing their own narrative for explaining the declining popularity of the prestige picture and synthesizing sources to promote their theories. It is a classic case of confirmational bias. Is it due to covid? Streaming? There are certainly more reasons for people not to leave their homes. Have tastes changed? My theory is that the concept of the prestige movie is married to the concept of film stardom, and the decline of the star system means there are fewer people around who can carry these films. But the truth is nobody understands why it is happening so it is OR to offer up random groups of films and award ceremonies as proof for these highly subjective theories. Betty Logan (talk) 01:17, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Yes, that’s very clear. I agree with Bearcat that it is far too early and unnecessary to call the era of “prestige films” dead. As long as there are film awards, prestige films will exist, it’s just that their nature and definition is changing due to audience viewing habits, streaming, the current economics of Hollywood, diversifying Oscars membership, etc. Spectrallights (talk) 01:42, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the thing. What happens a lot these days is that given the sheer cost of going to the movies, people increasingly tend to go out to the theatre only to see big special-effects extravaganzas that are going to look mindblowing on a big screen with surround sound, while waiting for more naturalistic drama or comedy films to show up on Netflix. Big science fiction or superhero films with lots of special effects feel like films that need to be seen on a big screen for maximum effect, while more realistic films don't — so a Marvel or Star Wars film will still open big at the multiplex, while Tar or The Fabelmans are likely to do much better on home video than they did in theatres. That doesn't mean that "prestige film" is dead per se, we just happen to be in the middle of a period when the ways people engage with film are being radically realigned: more and more, people simply wait for films to show up on home VOD/streaming platforms instead of going out to the cineplex to see movies every weekend the way we might have 20 or 30 years ago. I haven't actually seen even one of the "prestige" films named in this discussion yet, but that's not because I'm not interested in such tilms — they just haven't all shown up on streaming yet, and I have every intention of watching them when they do. Bearcat (talk) 14:42, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Agree with everything you said. Funnily enough, I was just listening to a podcast about film awards where they discussed this exact topic (timestamp 21:54) and the hosts brought up that studios don't disclose how much they make on VOD/streaming, and maybe they are turning a profit but we have no way of knowing, and so financial success for these films needs to be redefined.

I had a question about the Oscar bait page. Since the List of films considered "Oscar bait" that failed to receive any Academy Award nominations was split into a different article and has since been proposed to be deleted, would it be fine to add the This Had Oscar Buzz podcast to the list of External links? A large number of films on the list were taken straight from this podcast, but no credit was given. Edited to add: I saw Espngeek moved the list of films back to the main Oscar bait page. I discussed on the talk page whether it was necessary to include. Spectrallights (talk) 00:46, 25 March 2023 (UTC)

And then I saw "Triangle of Sadness and The Fabelmans top streaming charts in Canada", which just validated my point here. #1, The Fabelmans. #2, Triangle of Sadness. #3, Tar. #5, The Banshees of Inisherin. Guess what, HM2021, that means I was right: people wanted to see those films very much, and were just waiting for them to be available on home VOD. Bearcat (talk) 12:09, 3 April 2023 (UTC)