Talk:Potosí

Silver Mining in Spanish Empire

The statement that Zacatecas was the "other big silver mine" would appear to be misleading. Spain had many large silver camps all over Mexico, Pachuca (in Hidalgo) being one of the largest. I recall reading, also, that Zacatecas may have little claim as one of the top silver producing districts (at least in historical terms) though it did recieve heavy investment from overseas (especially British). Also, Zacatecas was relativelly far to the north of Spain's empire.

Also, after the initially rich surface deposits (consisting especially of chlorargyrite) were worked out, Potosi apparently did not have ore rich enough to compare favourably with that in many Mexican locations, but cheap indian labor (the mita) made it economically feasible.

Not only was the labor cheap, there were technological advances in this time period that were implemented in the Potosí mines. And it wasn't just Indian labor, around 30,000 African slaves were brought into the city as well. It became known as Cerro Rico (Rich Mountain in Spanish). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikiverkai (talk • contribs) 11:35, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

8 Million Deaths?

The statement that there were 8 millions deaths is not well supported (a movie quote). They are claiming this is bigger than the holocaust? Here is a different estimate of "hundreds of thousands" which is a bit more plausible: http://www.historycooperative.org/journals/cp/vol-03/no-04/potosi/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.115.215.79 (talk) 04:22, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Good point. I'll replace the text and reference. Plazak (talk) 14:43, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

The statement was made originally by the British writer Josiah Conder who wrote a series of traveler books although he never travelled abroad. It looks like Galeano took the statement from him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.141.212.47 (talk) 07:17, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

It seems that the 8 million figure has been re-added as of July 2018 (https://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Potos%C3%AD&diff=prev&oldid=852260427) The spanish version of this page also does not mention the 8 million figure. Muddyhikers (talk) 19:21, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Yes, I am confident that the 8 million figure is wrong, even though Galeano uses it. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 23:36, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

In total, if the full quota of Toledo had been met each single year, we get to a number of ~3,400,000 affected persons. To reach Galeano's 8 million, each mitayo would need to die more than twice. Since the actual number dropped to 1/3 and often less, 2,000,000 to 2,500,000 mitayos over the whole period is more likely. They'd have to die with certainty, and each of them 4 times. It's numbers from thin air, just for the emotion. In fact, even the "hundreds of thousands" are probably exaggerated. How is it measured? The number increases if we include deaths in the original towns caused by disruption in society. It also matters if every death of a mitayo in Potosí is counted as a victim, e.g. when dying from disease? Or should only excess deaths be counted? It is clear that mitayos were forced, exploited, labor was brutal and simply dangerous, but establishing just how deadly it was overall is not easy. That is probably better done by studying a sample case. --77.119.216.47 (talk) 10:52, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

Citation Needed No Longer

In the section titled "Origins of the Name", the story which needs a citation, is reiterated and somewhat expanded upon, even suggesting the prior name Sumaj Orko, in the book: Open veins of Latin America: five centuries of the pillage of a continent (correct capitalization) by Eduardo Galeano, originally published as Las venas abiertas de America Latina by Siglo XXI Editores, Mexico, copyright 1971 by Siglo XXI Editores.

The passage is in Part 1: Mankind's Poverty as a Consequence of the Wealth of the Land, Chapter 1: Lust for Gold, Lust for Silver, subsection The Silver Cycle: The Splendors of Potosi, page 21 of the 25th anniversary edition published by Monthly Review Press in 1997.

    Potosi[acc]'s history did not begin with the Spaniards. Before the conquest the Inca Huayna Ca[inv.acc.]paj had heard his vassals talk of the Sumaj Orko, the beautiful hill, and he was finally able to see it when, having fallen ill, he had himself taen to the thermal springs of Tarapaya. From the straw-hut village of Cantumarca the Inca's eyes contemplated for the first time that pefect cone which rises so proudly between the mountain peaks. He was awestruck by its reddish hues, slender form, and giant size, as people have continued to be through ensuing centuries. But the Inca suspected that it must conceal precious stones and rich metals in its bowels, and he wanted to add new decorations to th Temple of the Sun in Cuzco. The gold and silver that the Incas took from the mines of Colque Porco and Andacaba did not leave the kingdom: they were not used commercially but for the adoration of the gods. Indian miners had hardly dug their flints into the beautiful Cerro's veins of silver when a deep, hollow voice struck them to the ground. Emerging as loud as thunder from the depths of the wilderness, the voice said in Quechua, "This is not for you; God is keeping these riches for those who come from afar." The Indians fled in terror and the Inca, before departing from the Cerro, changed its name. It became "Potojsi," which means to thunder, burst, explode.
    "Those who come from afar" took little time in coming, although Huayna Ca[inv.acc.]paj was dead by the time the captains of the conquest made their way in. In 1545 the Indian Huallpa, running in pursuit of an escaped llama, had to pass the night on the Cerro. It was intensely cold and he lit a fire. By it's light he saw a white and shining vein -- [actually an m dash] pure silver. The Spanish avalanche was unleashed.

here [acc] denotes an accent on the previous letter, [inv.acc.] denotes an inverted accent on the previous letter, and [actually an m dash] refers to the two n dashes immediately preceeding.

If you can not cite the posted information, you could always verify and then post this instead, most likely without the second paragraph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.226.123 (talk) 23:13, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Cerro Rico

Is Cerro Rico the same as Huayna Potosí? If so, Cerro Rico's redirection should be fixed and if not, the see also note on top of Cerro Potosí should be changed to Potosí.--Taranet (talk) 20:35, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

Height

The essay says potosi is 4,090 metres high, and there is a link as certification. The link isn't reliable, as it says it is the highest town in the world. The deutch wikipedia says it is about 4000 meter, and specifically 3976.Uziel302 (talk) 11:10, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

I was just in Potosí over the past few days, and for what it's worth (no, this isn't a reliable source) I saw signs claiming an altitude of 4,060m. Of course, the city is also on the hill, and so is at various altitudes. I presume one would measure from the main square. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 23:34, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

There is also the statement " Due to such extensive mining, the mountain itself has diminished in height; before the mining started it was a few hundred meters higher than it is today" which is not documented, and sounds a bit exagerated to me. --MarmotteiNoZ 06:01, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Panorama Photo

The panorama photo here is quite pretty, but also misleading. When I was looking at the page just now, on a laptop with fairly high resolution, you couldn't see the Cerro Rico as claimed by the caption. It was only by going to Commons ([1]) that I could see the full image and realized that it does indeed feature the Cerro Rico, about two thirds of the way across, to the right. Even then, and for all it's prettiness, I'd suggest that this isn't a particularly helpful photo, not least because it de-emphasizes the way in which the Cerro Rico looms over the town just about wherever you are in it.

If I have time (I am still in Bolivia, in fact in Sucre, but on the road) I may upload one of the photos I took over the past few days. --jbmurray (talk • contribs) 23:40, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Silver was also smuggled to China via Fugian

Mann in his book 1493 reports that much silver went to China where it provided the minerals for making coins and rescued the dynasty. Sorry I can't be clearer. But this aspect is quite important possibly to the Manchu Dynasty if not its predecessor. ( Martin | talk • contribs 00:55, 10 May 2022 (UTC))

JPL PhotoJournal's PIA: PIA25705: Potosi, Bolivia

JPL PhotoJournal present a page of PIA25705: Potosi, Bolivia Rjluna2 (talk) 17:11, 12 January 2023 (UTC)