Talk:Polish heraldry

This article is the main page of the Polish heraldry series.

Project structure

Structure of the Polish heraldry project is as follows:

• This page
  • List of Polish Coats of Arms
  • all the CoA articles

Template

<!--SCROLL DOWN IN ORDER TO EDIT THE ARTICLE-->
{{Infobox PolishCoA|
         herb=|
        image=HerbSzablon.png|
    battlecry=|
  alternative=|
      mention=|
     families=|
        towns=|
}}
{{subst:PolishCoA structure}}

(see: Template talk:Infobox PolishCoA)

How to

If you want to create a page about one of the Coats of Arms please follow these steps:

• Follow a link (or create it, if non-existent) from List of Polish Coats of Arms
• Insert the text from the above box and fill it in with details, then save (see: Template talk:Infobox PolishCoA for instructions)
• edit the article again to fill the gaps

General discussion

I've once heard that initially neither the colours, or - what-was -it's name- the figures over the coat were not significant at all in Polish heraldry, and even the direction of the signs could change and it was till the same coat. Should that be mentioned, if this is true? Szopen 09:53, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It should be mentioned if it's true. The problem is that there are no volunteers so far to expand this article. I have very little knowledge on the topic (can describe my own CoA and some others, but little more) and created this project only to give some shape to the series of sub-stub articles created by Emax. [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 16:36, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

Can anyone explain the colours "steel" and "weasel"? --Daniel C. Boyer 21:00, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Steel is basically grey, as far as I remember. I don't remember what was the other colour, but you should check the article on tincture for more info (or ask there). [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 23:18, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)

Is weasel a translation error for Ermine from the stoat. Although there should be no confusion - Weasels are "weasily" recognized, stoats are "stoatally" different (I groan even as I type --Yendor1958 (talk) 10:11, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Wrong page

I think that the PROJECT page should be at Wikipedia:WikiProject Polish heraldry, and this project should be a descendant project of Wikipedia:WikiProject History of Poland (or Wikipedia:WikiProject Heraldy, but that one doesn't exist at all). Also, the stub section note (in the middle of the text) looks out of place, and see also at the begining is not very good as well. A note about individual coat's pages - they should all have a 'see also' list... section, IMHO. Otherwise, beautiful job, very useful to my szlachta project's :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 09:43, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Agreed. But do we really need to discuss anything more on the topic? [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 12:29, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)

This is Wiki...sooner or later, I am sure sb else will want to say sth about that. And as I wrote, the 'project note' does not look good on the main article page. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 16:22, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Well, in my honest opinion there isn't much to do here apart from finishing this article. Unless of course someone wants to expand it into a series, but I doubt it. And I liked the information on the main page since it allowed the others to find out that there are actually some other articles closely related to this article and that this one is but a help to understand them and not a separate article as such. Anyway, I'm currently busy with Wikipedia:Wikiproject Polish Army so do as you please. [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 19:52, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)

There is this nice box 'This article is part of the Polish Heraldry series', so I think this is enough for information purposes. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:50, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Fine with me. [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 21:58, Nov 19, 2004 (UTC)

Improvement drive

Heraldry has been nominated to be improved by Wikipedia:This week's improvement drive. Vote for this article there if you want to contribute. --Fenice 19:56, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Related template

Better late then never - I am annoucing the creation of a very relevant template: {{Polish coats of arms by Tadeusz Gajl}} for image tagging.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 21:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Spam blacklist warning

When I edited this article to change a category, I got a warning from the Wikimedia spam filter,

The page you tried to save was blocked by the spam filter because it contained a link to a blacklisted website. If you didn't add the link (see below), it was probably already in the current version of the page. Alternately, it might have been added by spyware on your computer.

You will need to remove all instances of the blacklisted URL before you can save.

If you believe that the link should not be listed on the spam blacklist, or that the spam filter is mistakenly blocking the edit, please leave a request on the spam blacklist talk page.

The links were both from the domain republika.pl (if I try to copy them here I get the same warnings, so have a look at older revisions of the article)

Someone with more knowledge of Polish than me may want to check whether these links should be blocked or not. Dr pda 18:59, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Pochodzenie polskiej szlachty

Witam, jestem pełen podziwu dla Pańskiej twórczości, zwłaszcza, że jako artysta raczej tradycyjny jeszcze nie potrafię tak wspaniale posługiwać się elektronicznymi substytutami pędzla i piórka. Mam wątpliwości co do fragmentu Pańskiego tekstu o pochodzeniu polskiej szlachty, zwłaszcza do stwierdzenia o braku tradycji rycerskich. Szlachta naturalnie wywodzi się ze słowiańskich wolnych wojowników, ale już za pierwszych Piastów zaczął sie u nas tworzyć system feudalny, i według mojej wiedzy zaistniał w Polsce stan rycerski, wg.zachodnio-europejskichy kryteriów. Że przypomnę tu choćby Zawiszę Czarnego, który stał się częścią legendy i etosu rycerskiego także w zachodniej europie. Słaba znajomość angielskiego nie pozwala mi na samodzielne wprowadzenie uzupełnień, ale myślę ,że warto by troszkę uzupełnić ten temat. pozdrawiam--Steifer 14:49, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Improvement

• Needs references
• Needs a general clean up (espeshially the infoboxes at the bottom)

Inge 18:53, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

B-class review for WP:POLAND: failed

Main reason: no inline citations. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk to me} 19:08, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Peculiarities- Shield

In this section reference is made to an image at the top of the page, but there is no image!?--Yendor1958 (talk) 10:20, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

The image was lost when the "Polish Heraldry" series sidebar template was deleted. Thanks for spotting that; I've restored the image. --EncycloPetey (talk) 17:18, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Comment on article

Very good job done on article although it need citations! I add some info about the Sarmatian theory that proved to be partly correct. This could be established by DNA project on FTDNA that examine the origin of Polish nobility. I also added "citation needed" tag in History section, second row regaridng Polish Clans. Article claim following: Most szlachta, from at least the 12th century, were not related and their unions were mostly voluntary and based on followership and brotherhood rather than kinship. It is partly true but maybe later from 16th or even 17th century. In 12th century, most of Clans where well organized and well integrated. Current research on subject that also add the DNA samples to confirm the research, show remarkable kinship. Although Clan origin differ from each other, the DNA composition in Clans are similar which indicate that the process of development of the Clans was similar. camdan (talk) 10:49, 9 August 2016 (UTC)

According to Polish historian Tadeusz Manteuffel, a Polish clan (ród) consisted of people related by blood and descending from a common ancestor, giving the ród/clan a highly developed sense of solidarity (see gens) - this is true for some Clans and not true for other. Some clans have different origin, for example - Awdaniec or Ostoja where clan is military group of mercenaries. In that case families are not blood related, although strongly integrated and supported each other like a family. camdan (talk) 16:53, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

Section under "History" that start with "In Poland" and end with "14th century" - I suggest to remove it since it have not so much to do about the heraldry and is more explainde in art art about Polish history. Or rewrite but tis a lot about CLans and nobility and not so much about heraldic issues. Any feedback or opinion? camdan (talk) 18:25, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Polish heraldry and genealogy discussion

Please join the discussion in Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Heraldry and vexillology#Polish heraldry and genealogy about how to correctly handle historical Polish concepts "ród", "ród herbowy" vs. "House" & "Clan", etc. Staszek Lem (talk) 18:16, 10 August 2016 (UTC)