Talk:Physalia utriculus

Movement in Indo-Pacific Portuguese Man o' War (?)

"A gas filled bladder allows it to float on the surface, propelled by currents, tides, and by a sail at the top of the bladder, which may be left or right-handed."

This implies that Physalia Utriculus has no means of moving without an outside force. The article for Physalia Physalis (http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Portuguese_Man_o%27_War) explicitly states that "It has no means of self-propulsion and is entirely dependent on winds, currents, and tides."

I'm not sure how biologically different the two species are, but I have photographic evidence of a member of the Physalia Utriculus propelling itself against a current. From my understanding, I cannot upload a picture to Wikipedia for 4 days or until i get 10 points, but here is a link to the picture.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/9/pmowz.jpg/

I took this photograph at Cocos Island, Costa Rica. The current was moving towards the right of the picture, and the furthest left individual is moving towards the left. This is evidenced by turbulence around its sail, and if you notice its tentacle, it is apparent that it is not being pulled by another organism. Maybe somebody could look into this? Perhaps the Physalia Physalis species can also propel itself and the behavior simply hasn't been observed or recorded? MartynFR (talk) 00:33, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Correct taxonomic status?

This WoRMS page gives the binomial nomenclature as Physalia utriculus (Gemlin 1788) and not (La Martiniere 1787) and lists it as a synonym of Physalia physalis .

• http://www.marinespecies.org/aphia.php?p=taxdetails&id=387269#links

This Hydrozoa database page does the same

• http://www.marinespecies.org/hydrozoa/aphia.php?p=taxdetails&id=135479

What is the correct position? AshLin (talk) 06:30, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

Elmidae would you please enlighten me about this issue? AshLin (talk) 06:43, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

AshLin - err... complete brainfart. Sorry, I seem to have bobbled about three open tabs there. Reverted. - As to the actual taxonomy issue, I have a vague recollection that that has come up before, although clearly not on this talk page. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 06:54, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

AshLin, further: seems this is based on a 2007 redescription of P. physalia that ended up synonymizing "P. utriculus" - see here. Might be worth treating in the genus article? --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 07:07, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

I think we are looking at a merge here. Kicked it over to Tree of Life for more input. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 08:56, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

I see there is a note on the WoRMS page for the original name Medusa utriculus Gmelin, 1788 "Name not mentioned in La Martinière, introduced by Gmelin (1788)". There is a link to source material further down that page. William Avery (talk) 13:01, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

• Merge - @Elmidae, AshLin, and William Avery: It seems the consensus at the ToL talk page was to merge. So what happened? Is this a go for merge? --Nessie (talk) 16:04, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

This kind of drifted out of my view. Yes, it appears that we should merge. Are you feeling inspired? :) Otherwise I will see when I can have a go at it. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 16:13, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Ok, Done --Nessie (talk) 17:47, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

@NessieVL: do you mind if I have a look at this first? I'm looking for a citation for the taxonomic decision displayed at WoRMS.cygnis insignis 19:14, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

@Cygnis insignis: you're a little late for "first," but go ahead and check. They did a bit of digging at the other discussion so that may help. --Nessie (talk) 19:33, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

• Taxon Notes: This species has previously been recorded in Australian waters as Physalia physalis, which was previously regarded as being a cosmopolitan species but is probably restricted to the Atlantic. P. utriculus is much smaller (float <10cm) than P. physalis, and has only a single main tentacle. There are also several other, possibly undescribed, species of Physalia in Australian waters. See Gershwin et.al., 2010. marine.csiro.au
• Scientific Name verified against:

Gershwin, L.-A.; Zeidler, W.; Davie, P.J.F., 2010. Medusae (Cnidaria) of Moreton Bay, Queensland, Australia. Memoirs of the Queensland Museum - Nature 54(3): 47-108.

This was the first thing I saw at the national databases, it is current in Australia. I came to much the same conclusion as the points made at the discussion, I think the paper only lends support to a monophyletic taxon, they don't seem to have looked at other specimens and could not have reached that conclusion. WoRms doesn't give a citation to the 'unaccepted' and ITIS doesn't have an entry I hear. Is there any point in me trying to found out why Worms has it different, or is this the end of the article? Honest answer please, before I waste any more time? cygnis insignis 19:46, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

I did think that paper seemed a rather unsatisfactory base for the major databases to switch classifications on. OTOH, those are what we tend to follow, so I'm not sure any findings on your part would make a big difference re merging; but it might make good material to expand Portuguese_man_o'_war#Name into an actual taxonomy section. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 20:46, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Much appreciated. We will get along fine if you establish at the outset I am wasting my time with sources and research if it contradicts what 'we' do. :| cygnis insignis 21:10, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

We will get along even better if you resist such opportunities to snipe. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 21:50, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Excuse the insubordination, it's an allergic response. Where is that taxonomic treatment cited at worms? I honestly can't see it? cygnis insignis 22:08, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

• @AshLin: @Elmidae: @NessieVL: so, the article I created was deleted. cygnis insignis 01:49, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

• • Thanks to all for resolving the issue appropriately. AshLin (talk) 07:00, 12 March 2019 (UTC)

@Cygnis insignis: I'm 'reopening' the discussion, as requested. Maybe you were confused about the timing? As you see above, I completed the merge at 17:47, 11 March 2019 (UTC). Then a few hours later, at 19:14, 11 March 2019 (UTC), you requested to look at the article "first," but the article was already merged (as I noted again at 19:33, 11 March 2019 (UTC)). How would you like to proceed? --Nessie (talk) 17:17, 18 March 2019 (UTC)

NessieVL, I have nothing more to add here, if the article is restored I will improve it. My invitation to reopen the discussion was to revisit this for reconsideration of what I have already stated. In light of the response by Peter to my enquiry, on general matters of notability, which has since been provided, I will have to assume that you have interpreted that as supporting your merge. That would be the end of the discussion, without me repeating myself. cygnis insignis 16:18, 26 March 2019 (UTC)

redirect

This is a different species. I’m making a draft soon. Draft:Physalia utriculus Atlas Þə Biologist (talk) 22:06, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

@Atlas Þə Biologist: please don't; they have been synonymized, which is respected by all relevant databases. See e.g. [1] and [2]. The redirect is correct. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 05:47, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

It’s a different species. Atlas Þə Biologist (talk) 19:07, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Our sources say no, and we follow the sources. Please do not succumb to the temptation to be disruptive to please either your ego or preconceptions. --Elmidae (talk · contribs) 19:31, 28 September 2024 (UTC)