Talk:Pence (disambiguation)

Requested move 5 April 2017

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: NOT MOVED.(non-admin closure) Kostas20142 (talk) 17:14, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

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Pence (disambiguation) → Pence – Due to the recent spike in notability of Mike Pence which will most likely remain historical, I think this needs to be discussed due to a possible lack of a primary topic. Steel1943 (talk) 22:00, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

(However, unless I cross out this statement, I'm neutral.) Steel1943 (talk) 22:06, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

I now support my own proposal. See my comment in the discussion below. Steel1943 (talk) 17:52, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

• Support. Even ignoring Mike Pence, the amount of entries on this page that have nothing to do with an old plural form of "penny" make me think a DAB is probably the best landing page. Nohomersryan (talk) 23:54, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
• Support. Pence is currently a redirect to Penny. What we can do immediately is change it to redirect to Pence (disambiguation). I presume that's not controversial and I'm going to go ahead and do that. I will also add that Mike Pence is arguably the primary topic for Pence. --В²C ☎ 00:38, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
• Comment. I reverted В²C's bold change to the redirect. That would only be appropriate if this were a technical move request, as it immediately populates categories and the bot that creates the WP:MALPLACED report would eventually complain about it too. I don't assume it will be uncontroversial. Well, for starters, you have over 570 links that need disambiguation. Someone working on articles about British ships (those with titles that start HMS liked to link to pence a lot. You might want to notify the editors over at Talk:Penny as they would be affected by this. – wbm1058 (talk) 00:58, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

  FYI, I just happened to be patrolling Category:Pages with incorrectly transcluded disambiguation templates a few minutes ago. So just random chance that I noticed Born2cycle's change in the redirect only four minutes after he did that. – wbm1058 (talk) 01:09, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

  Sigh. Okay; thanks. What a nightmare. --В²C ☎ 01:23, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

  @Wbm1058: I thought that RMCD bot would have placed an RM notice on Talk:Penny since Pence redirects to Penny. Am I imagining that this was a function of the bot? Steel1943 (talk) 12:01, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

Actually it just checks Talk:Pence, and after finding nothing there, moves on to the next item. I'm surprised this scenario hasn't been pointed out to me before. I'll see if I can add it to the bot's repertoire. wbm1058 (talk) 12:29, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

 Done – See Wikipedia talk:Requested moves#RMCD bot enhanced to post notices on related pages where the RM implies a change in primary topic. – wbm1058 (talk) 15:15, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

• Support per nomination. At the very least, the parenthetical qualifier "(disambiguation)" should be eliminated. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 01:45, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
• Here in Britain I am very familiar in speech and in writing with the word "pence" as a plural of "penny" when money is mentioned. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 08:27, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
  • WP:NOTADICT. Familiarity with common dictionary words is expected, but what matters to primary topic determination is the likelihood of a topic to be sought with a given term. --В²C ☎ 15:37, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose too soon, WP:CRYSTAL, and per Anthony Appleyard. 'Pence' is a long-standing monetary term and may be common after the US Pence is a historical figure (depending on his upcoming history). If VP Pence stays vice-president and doesn't himself become a major historical presence, then the monetary descriptor should be the primary, and predicting Pence's future importance should be left up to Nostradamus and Ivanka. Randy Kryn 11:28, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. Penny is the overwhelming primary topic. Pence gets very few page views as it is and Pence (disambiguation) gets even fewer, so there is no indication that people are looking for any other topic. —Xezbeth (talk) 12:20, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
  • What evidence is there that a single view (much less a significant number of views) of Penny comes through the Pence redirect, and intentionally so? --В²C ☎ 15:40, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
    • What evidence is there that anyone has ever searched for "Pence" and expected to find Mike Pence? He isn't ubiquitously referred to as "Pence", and his existence does not make the surname Pence magically more notable. —Xezbeth (talk) 06:15, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
      • Here are a couple of articles which refer to Mike Pence simply as "Pence"; [1], [2]. Also, at least on my search on a third-party search engine, searching for "Pence" returns virtually exclusively results for Mike Pence. Steel1943 (talk) 07:07, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. The long-term significance of the money seems pretty clear to me. This is especially the case when the counter-argument is based on the significance of a US Vice President, not for anything he's actually done yet, but for the inherent significance his office bestows upon him. That office being the US vice presidency, a position held by such titans of history as Daniel Tompkins, William Rufus DeVane King, Schuyler Colfax, William Wheeler, and James Sherman. Egsan Bacon (talk) 17:04, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
• Support (nominator comment/opinion update) After evaluating the comparison of page views between Pence, Penny, Pence (disambiguation) and Mike Pence, I'm now convinced that there isn't a primary topic since Mike Pence seems to get about 6–8 times the combined page views of Pence, Penny and Pence (disambiguation) on average. Steel1943 (talk) 17:52, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. Long-term notability for the currency is apt to be higher than for the politician.--Srleffler (talk) 02:03, 8 April 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. Too soon, and I'm not looking forward to disambiguation of 500+ links. – wbm1058 (talk) 15:22, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

  In my opinion, "...I'm not looking forward to disambiguation of 500+ links..." is not necessarily a reason to oppose a move request since it's only a technical problem with incoming links in the event this page is moved. That, and the WP:DPL system would detect the incoming links to the disambiguation page, and then one or more of the editors who monitor that page (there are quite a few) would most likely correct the links. (Disclaimer: this comment is in no way disputing the "too soon" part of the aforementioned statement.) Steel1943 (talk) 16:34, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

• Strong oppose even in North America, I would argue most people search for pence are searching because they don't realize it is actually the plural of the penny in British English. Its the clear primary topic, and will be whenever Mr. Pence leaves office, unless he should get a promotion at some point in the future. TonyBallioni (talk) 22:29, 13 April 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.