Talk:Pe (Semitic letter)

Fei

The redirect Fei (letter) links to Pe (letter), but there is no mention of this usage in the article. Is this a real synonym? If so, please add this info to this article, and if not, delist it from Fei (disambiguation). Thanks! +mt 22:45, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

פֿ (pe with rafe)

There should be some mention of the Yiddish letter פֿ (fey) which redirects here.

ف

ف in persian is not pe it is same as f why you have used pe. I think this is not right.Simsala111 (talk) 00:31, 14 July 2013 (UTC)

Requested move 5 August 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Pe (Semitic letter)  — Amakuru (talk) 18:44, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

---

Pe (letter) → Pe (Semitic) – WP:INCOMPDAB, Pe (Cyrillic) and Pe (Persian letter). –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 00:01, 5 August 2019 (UTC) –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 00:01, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

• Speedy support uncontroversial In ictu oculi (talk)

Would you be so kind not to say "uncontroversial" without doing your homework, or awaiting whether there is perhaps still some controversy? :) Debresser (talk) 16:28, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

• Support. More precise disambiguation is needed given the other letter articles. Rreagan007 (talk) 15:04, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose like Bet (letter), He (letter), Waw (letter), Nun (letter) and Shin (letter), while there are zero letters that have "Semitic" as their qualifier. Debresser (talk) 16:28, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
• Support, because "Pe (П п; italics: П п) is a letter of the Cyrillic script"; "Pe (پ) used to represent the phoneme /p/, is a letter in the Perso-Arabic alphabet"; therefore Pe (letter) is ambiguous to multiple meanings. I don't know if the same can be said of Bet (letter), He (letter), Waw (letter), Nun (letter) and Shin (letter), but if so, then any of them that have a similar situation should be moved. bd2412 T 16:55, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Then the proposal should be amended to move to Pe (Semitic letter), like Pe (Persian letter). And likewise Pe (Cyrillic) should be moved to Pe (Cyrillic letter). Debresser (talk) 21:10, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

I checked if there were any disambiguation hatnotes on the other articles (Bet (letter), He (letter), Waw (letter), Nun (letter) and Shin (letter)), but no. So this might be the only case, and I think we should disambiguate them all in the same fashion: Pe (Semitic letter), Pe (Persian letter), Pe (Cyrillic letter). Debresser (talk) 21:18, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

• Support Pe (Semitic letter). Leave Pe (Cyrillic) where it is: unlike Persian, Cyrillic refers only to the alphabet, and members of Category:Cyrillic letters are consistently named. No such user (talk) 07:12, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Agree regarding Cyrillic. Debresser (talk) 14:59, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 13 May 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move (closed by non-admin page mover) Mdaniels5757 (talk) 22:02, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

---

Pe (Semitic letter) → Fe (Semitic letter) – the letter is pronounced like an f in most languages today whose alphabets are not Greek-derived Georgia guy (talk) 14:57, 13 May 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. Andrewa (talk) 15:51, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

• Comment The article seems to be mainly about the Pe, not the Fe. The Fe is not even mentioned in the lead of this article. Debresser (talk) 23:15, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

  Well then, for anyone who deals with this discussion feel free to alter the lead. Georgia guy (talk) 23:22, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose, as the lede says "The original sound value is a voiceless bilabial plosive: /p/; it retains this value in most Semitic languages except for Arabic". It might be useful to have Fe (Semitic letter) redirect to Pe (Semitic letter)#Fe, though. 178.164.139.126 (talk) 01:13, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

  Comment. I'm sure that Arabic, not Hebrew, is the most common language whose alphabet derives directly from the Phoenician abjad and not via Greek. Not only does Hebrew use it for both sounds but Arabic only for f, but even in languages that use the Arabic alphabet those that have the p sound use a form of beth. Georgia guy (talk) 01:20, 14 May 2020 (UTC)

But this article is about the letter, not the sound. Phi is not at "fi" just because the "ph" digraph is pronounced "f" in English. Feh (letter) already redirects here. same ed, new IP 94.21.252.238 (talk) 01:47, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

And if the article is about the letter it should be at its most common name. Both Hebrew and Arabic use a form of the letter for the f sound. Georgia guy (talk) 10:26, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

• Support, per Georgia guy's points. إيان (talk) 21:08, 16 May 2020 (UTC)
• Relisting comment: If I were to close this I'd need to discard most if not all of the above arguments... they don't relate to WP:AT at all. What do sources call this letter? Andrewa (talk) 15:51, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

  Sources come in 2 flavors; those that talk about Hebrew and those that talk about Arabic. Those that talk about Hebrew give it as both p and f; those that talk about Arabic talk about it as f alone. Georgia guy (talk) 16:54, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

• Comment: Anyone arguing about how it's pronounced needs to cite sources on what it's called. See also Talk:Nu (letter)#Requested move 29 April 2019, a very similar RM from the past. O.N.R. ^(talk) 03:26, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

  The important thing in that case was that everyone who speaks English calls the letter nu, not ni; and everyone who speaks English pronounces it noo, not nee. But what analogy is that to this requested move?? Georgia guy (talk) 14:41, 22 May 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose since supporters have not presented evidence on what it's called, and opposers have. Dicklyon (talk) 16:31, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

  Comment. I'm sure it's called either pe or fe in Hebrew but it's always fa, never pa, in Arabic (in fact, even languages with the Arabic alphabet that have the p sound don't use a form of this letter.) Georgia guy (talk) 16:40, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

پ

The article doesn't mention the Extended Perso–Arabic پ. ― Greater Intosh 16:12, 31 July 2023 (UTC)