Talk:Pawn Hearts

NPOV

The line 'the music is extremely complex and non-standard' doesn't really come across as NPOV, does it?--HisSpaceResearch 00:55, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Have you heard anything that's more complex? Moreover, "complex" and "non-standard" are factual terms without negative or positive connotations. By the way, the AMG review that is linked to is rather poor, with several dubious statements: "without the discipline and restraint needed to make the music manageable", ""Lemmings," calls to mind early Gentle Giant", "The band was trying for something midway between King Crimson and Genesis", "the lack of any obviously cohesive ideas in the lyrics". Narssarssuaq 14:14, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I recently heard this album for the first time, and am currently fascinated by it. It would be very interesting to see some more detailed exposition of the musical style and lyrical themes here- currently the entry is limited to rather dry factual information, which doesn't add anything to the info already in the CD booklet. I realise that Wikipedia may not be the best place for subjective discussions of aesthetics etc, but it should be possible to include some deeper considerations, without violating the NPOV requirement. Any VdGG obsessives out there who fancy taking this on? Scholiwiki 11:40, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

N. 1 in Italy

In Italy this album peaked only at #12 in 1972 as stated here http://www.hitparadeitalia.it/hp_yenda/lpe1972.htm. The source put in here by user "Mark in wiki" is just a piece of a newspaper which doesn't explain to which kind of chart it is referring. So I'm removing the reference to Pawn Hearts' alleged first position in top selling lp's in Italy. The aforementioned user is kindly asked to explain here his further changes on the topic, if any. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.145.117.141 (talk) 12:02, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay. I won't make any further changes. Enjoy. Mark in wiki (talk) 12:19, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Pawn Hearts/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 08:57, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Comments

• Since their discog shows they made live, video and compilation albums as well, perhaps worth just an embellishment in the lead, so it states that this was the fourth studio album.

I'm not so sure - long running bands frequently release live and compilation albums after they split up, to get some extra cash and keep fans happy. In this case, it was the fourth studio album and fourth album overall anyway. I believe the first non-original album was 68-71, released about a year after Pawn Hearts Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:38, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm not too worried, either way it's factually accurate. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:46, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• As you mention "original album", perhaps it's worth noting in the lead that the album had a 2005 reissue.

Good idea. Done. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• No need to link common geographical terms like Italy.

Fixed Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• "for two months" doesn't seem to scan well for me, maybe "over a two-month period"?

Done Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• "The album's strong commercial showing in Italy resulted in a number of lucrative tours there promoting the album," mildly repetitive use of album here.

I've done with "resulted in a number of lucrative promotional tours there" Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• "Van der Graaf Generator had stabilised around " would it be clearer to say "... Generator's lineup had stabilised..."?

Done, though I always thought "line-up" was a poor choice of word compared to, say, "personnel". See WP:EUPHEMISM Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

I don't mind the use of personnel either. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:46, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• "had experimented with LSD" I imagine it would be wise to directly reference this kind of claim.

The claim is cited to the next citation along (Christopulos / Smart p.116) I checked the source. What is actually there is an account of the band being invited to take LSD (and shoot wild boar!) on a tour break, but it neither confirms nor denies they took up the offer, so per WP:BLP, out it goes. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 12:43, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• "Following the tour, in preparation for the album" would read better (to me) if "and" was added before "in" here.

Done Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• "H to He, Who Am the Only One‍ '​s " on my screen, the "'s" is split onto the next line, I think there's a template like 's that may help?

I've taken a brute force attack and used a pipe link - that should hopefully give you the non-breaking space Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:39, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• "Olivier Messiaen influenced" needs a hyphen.

All good. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:46, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Fixed Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• Maybe just me but I usually see B-side capitalised.

Fixed Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• AllMusic has a capital M.

This is one of those things I always get wrong - fixed Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• "The grouped toured" one too many ed's.

D'oh. Fixed. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• "Fish is a fan" maybe worth contextualising who Fish is to those unfamiliar with him!

I've gone with "singer-songwriter". I can't think of what else to use, he's not been in Marillion for decades and his style has evolved, so it would be like calling Peter Gabriel an "ex Genesis progressive rock singer" Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

That's fine, it's just there may be quite a few people who are unaware that Fish is a musician...! The Rambling Man (talk) 13:46, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• What's E & C after Hammond?

The model number - specifically E-112 and C-3. See List of Hammond organs (or Martinevans123). The specific reason it's phrased like that is that experience has told me the only sane way of writing album credits is to reproduce them as close to verbatim as possible. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for the educashun. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:46, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• Any reason why Robin Cable would be red-linked and not Keith Morris? (Just a query really).

It would need to be Keith Morris (artist), and I tend to hold off on redlinks that need disambiguation. He's nothing to do with Keith Morris, as you might have guessed. Luxford House was a redlink until a few days ago. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Ok, good to know your approach. I would usually create a red link, even to a dab, if I thought the notability was adequate... The Rambling Man (talk) 13:46, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

• Any chance of a table of chart placings as I see on most album articles?

It'll be a very short table. Unusually for a notable album by a British band, it didn't chart in the UK or the US. The only documented chart position I have is Italy. It might have had a minor chart placing in Belgium or the Netherlands as well, but I don't have a source for that. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Not to worry. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:46, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Not too much to worry about, so I'll put it on hold for a few days. The Rambling Man (talk) 12:46, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

@The Rambling Man: - I've addressed all the issues, a few things need further discussion but not much. Can you take another look? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:37, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Responded, but nothing more for you to do as far as I can see, so I'll pass to GA, nice work. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:46, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Cool, thanks. You wait ages (well, a few weeks) for a GA to pass and then two turn up at once ;-) Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 13:51, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Audio sample(s)

Just to be clear, for the purposes of music samples, is "A Plague of Lighthouse Keepers" a single track, or does each part count as a separate item? Martinevans123 (talk) 14:17, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Since the LP has no track markers on it, and the CD is one 23 minute track, I'd say it's one thing. What were you thinking of doing? Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 14:24, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Undecided. Any requests? I'd be asking you, of course, to write a prog-rock-musicological-essay-in-the-form-of-a-FUR. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:27, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Personally I think a bridge between the quiet piano verse section and the insane sax squealings in "Man Erg" would fit the bill. Ritchie333 ^{(talk) (cont)} 15:08, 6 July 2015 (UTC)

Hmmm, yes, sounds promising. I must remember to upload a sample that is "generally no more than 64kbps." Or maybe I'll try just 4kbps, so that it sounds like it's being played on a Dansette down a telephone line. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:20, 6 July 2015 (UTC) User:Ritchie333, did you mean approx 2:45 - 3:15?

ARP 2500

Any source? Or even one for the two models of Hammond organ? Is it all covered by "Powell, Mark (2005). Pawn Hearts (Media notes)"? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:07, 7 August 2019 (UTC)