Talk:Panzerhaubitze 2000

POV with the text about the crusader system

"Generally the PzH 2000 could be modified to meet the Crusader requirements without too many modifications, but it is clear that the US actually wants to buy a US design." This is lacking NPOV. On several occasions the United States army has bought european hardware because it meets their requirements better than the American hardware available. It isn't Wikipedia's mission to start guessing about things like this, especially when there really isn't much to back the claim.

I removed "In addition the Crusader included an automated ammunition tender, although that would likely be not too difficult to add to the PzH 2000." This kind of layman's guessing isn't suitable for an encyclopedia.

Quote: "PzH 2000 contractor officials said that they could develop an automated resupply vehicle based on the PzH 2000 chassis and modify the PzH 2000 howitzer to meet all of the Crusader key requirements and many of the other Crusader requirements. Also, they believed that they could field these vehicles within 6 years of the start of development, assuming that U.S. government-furnished material, such as the actively cooled cannon, was available when needed."

Just because the PzH is superior to the Paladin, it doesn't make it completley outdated. I changed "now outdated Paladin" to "less effective Paladin".- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg 07:20, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Rate of fire (ROF)

What does, "Rate of fire: 3 rounds per 10 seconds, 8 rounds per minute, 20 rounds per 3 minutes", mean? Is it burst, sustained, rapid .... ? -- Htra0497 (talk) 03:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

Inconsistency

The crew descriptions are inconsistent between some of the prose, and the stats and infobox crew lines. The count of German orders doesn't line up with the number reportedly in service. Clarification would be greatly helpful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.222.56.42 (talk) 04:33, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the numbers, Germany only bought 185 howitzers, and actualy operates 153, with the others mothballed due to limited use of artillery and cutting costs. Those additional 410 mentioned were never built. I have to make an educated guess, but I think it was planned to replace the M109s in the remaining artillery regiments a that time, but this became obsolete with the reforms the german army underwent in the coming years (all of those artillery units that did not introduce the PzH2000s ordered by 1998 were dissolved between 1999 and 2008). 93.210.251.161 (talk) 19:06, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

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Translation of the name Panzerhaubitze

Currently the article translates the name as "armoured howitzer 2000". I believe this to be incorrect and the correct translation to be "tank howitzer 2000". Armoured howitzer would translate to German as "gepanzerte Haubitze", while the noun "Panzer" normally translates to tank. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.213.153.106 (talk) 04:22, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

I should note that the old website by its manufacturer (as archived and shown on the article) did call it a "Tank Howitzer"; the current site doesn't translate the name at all. -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 11:17, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Basically the german name for Self-propelled Artillery. --Denniss (talk) 14:13, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

'Panzer' is an abbreviation of 'Panzerkampfwagen,' basically 'armored fighting vehicle.' 'Panzer' here is indeed a modifier indicating 'armored.' See Panzerschiff Pbirmingham (talk) 16:38, 8 July 2022 (UTC)

Actually German has no specific word for 'tank', but uses the word 'Panzer', literally 'armour' instead. Before tanks were invented, the word 'Panzer' which was borrowed from Latin languages during the middle ages refered to all kind of body-armour or even to a turtle's shell. If a main battle-tank is meant, Germans say 'Kampfpanzer' (literally 'battle armour'). All kind of armoured vehicles, especially in militariy use are in German called '-panzer' and are sometimes translated as "-tank" to English.

By the way: I added the German pronounciation to the article. I find so many smart comments in videos and podcasts refering to the PzH 2000, which are often really competent but lack the right pronounciation of the vehicle's name or the commentator desperates about the word. Traubenberger (talk) 04:59, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

I agree that armoured might be a better translatation. If it did not look weird, I would actually choose "armoured self-propelled howitzer" as the best translation because "self-propelled howitzer" is a relevant military category, and the naming of the German vehicle is simply this, a military vehicle category, with 2000 added. Panzerhaubitze exists as a separate Wikipedia entry, and corresponds to the Wikipedia entry self-propelled artillery, and within that to self-propelled howitzer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.182.15.250 (talk) 12:20, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

I have fixed the wrong pronunciation that somebody has inserted. Both the IPA and the audio were completely wrong. There has to be an a-Schwa (for -er), and a normal Schwa for the final e.

Also the audio was completely wrong -- the person reading the audio is a German (like myself) who was pronuncing it in the way one would pronunce it ONLY in order to allow somebody to SPELL it correctly (it's like a mix of spelling dictation and normal dictation), it's NOT the way it's actually pronounced.

I have copied the correct pronunciation IPA from German Wiktionary. Note that there are two ways to pronounce zweitausend. Only the second one is correct in this situation: the one with the stress on TAU. (NOT on zwei).

I have removed the audio for the time being. Ideally the two audios from German Wiktionary would be combined to one and then uploaded. For this, the SECOND audio for the word zweitausend needs to be used, like I already mentioned for the IPA.

https://record.reverb.chat/s/ZL2wPFilblZ5835LHauM

the above is the correct pronunciation. 77.15.178.172 (talk) 23:22, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

This article lack of proper references in most of its sections, it seems a advertisment for the weapons system.

Need more overhaul and supervision. 94.38.53.136 (talk) 20:36, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

Both KMW and Rheinmetall claims the firing max range us 54km... Kadrun (talk) 20:31, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Ukrainian order

Are there any sources confirming Ukraine's purchase of 100 SPGs from Germany? Because as far as I know there was no purchase but rather only press releases, the source of which being Rheinmetall's CEO (who didn't mention a purchase, just an agreement to sell) who has a track record of being very creative in the presence of media. Olekz17 (talk) 20:50, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

According to Politico, a KMW spokesperson confirmed the purchase: "A spokesperson for Krauss-Maffei Wegmann confirmed that Kyiv had ordered 100 Panzerhaubitze 2000 from the company for a total price of €1.7 billion, and that the German Economy Ministry — which is in charge of arms control — had given the necessary authorization to start the manufacturing of the artillery units on July 13." Source: [1]. - 198.96.178.33 (talk) 16:00, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Maximum firing range

What's up with the firing range listed in this article? From what I know, the PzH 2000 has a standard JBMoU gun, so an L/52 barrel with a 23 liter chamber. Which means that the maximum range should be 30 kilometers with boattail projectiles and 40 kilometers with base bleed ones. Are there any sources (that are not behind a paywall...) which can confirm that the ranges of 36 and 47 kilometers were achieved under normal conditions? Olekz17 (talk) 21:44, 13 November 2023 (UTC)