Talk:Ontopoetics

Subject

The subject of this article is listed in the Aesthetics section of the Requested Articles page for Philosophy. Feel free to contribute or help improve the page. Thanks! Darwin Naz (talk) 23:36, 15 September 2020 (UTC)

Feedback from New Page Review process

I left the following feedback for the creator/future reviewers while reviewing this article: Nice work!.

Gazal world (talk) 17:10, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 22:36, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

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• Article history

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Species produce cues and signals.

• ... that ontopoetics uncovers a hidden reality using poetic signs? Source: "Ontopoetics opens a world of potential new meaning and experience hidden within the world already so familiar to us from science." and "the living cosmos responds, in person as it were, to our poetic address" (William Seager - The Routledge Handbook of Panpsychism)
  • ALT1:... that ontopoetics communicates with the world in a plane hidden from science? Source: "To speak of ontopoetics is to imply not only that the world is psychoactive ... but also that it is responsive to us, that we bring to it - or can bring to it, if we choose - something that calls it forth on a new expressive plane." (Oppy & Trakakis - Interreligious Philosophical Dialogues: Volume 1; also Seager)
  • ALT2:... that ontopoetics holds that the cosmos can be coaxed to respond using poetic signs? Source: "the living cosmos responds, in person as it were, to our poetic address" (Seager)
  • ALT3:... that ontopoetics uncovers a hidden reality using poetic signs such as cues found in bird songs? (pictured) Source: "Ontopoetics opens a world of potential new meaning and experience hidden within the world"; "the living cosmos responds, in person as it were, to our poetic address" (William Seager - The Routledge Handbook of Panpsychism); and ""Ontopoetics... draws our attention to the poetic infrastructure of creation... that may be found in the order of an insect, in the structure of seeds, in the composition of bird song..." (Virginia Rutter, Ancient Greece, Modern Psyche)
  • ALT4:... that ontopoetics holds that the world is psychoactive and can respond to us if engaged? Source: "To speak of ontopoetics is to imply not only that the world is psychoactive ... but also that it is responsive to us, that we bring to it - or can bring to it, if we choose - something that calls it forth on a new expressive plane." (Oppy & Trakakis - Interreligious Philosophical Dialogues: Volume 1; also Seager)

• Reviewed: Digimon Adventure: Our War Game!

Created/expanded by Darwin Naz (talk). Self-nominated at 01:28, 6 October 2020 (UTC).

• I notice there is an image used on this nomination but it is not explicitly mentioned with (pictured) in any of the hooks. Does the nominator wish to incorporate the photo into a hook? Flibirigit (talk) 02:58, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi @Flibirigit: It is alright if the picture is not included. It is difficult to cite its relevance in such short sentences. But, here is an attempt: ALT3:... that ontopoetics uncovers a hidden reality using poetic signs such as cues found in bird songs? (pictured) Source: "Ontopoetics opens a world of potential new meaning and experience hidden within the world"; "the living cosmos responds, in person as it were, to our poetic address" (William Seager - The Routledge Handbook of Panpsychism); and ""Ontopoetics... draws our attention to the poetic infrastructure of creation... that may be found in the order of an insect, in the structure of seeds, in the composition of bird song..." (Virginia Rutter, Ancient Greece, Modern Psyche) Regards, Darwin Naz (talk) 03:52, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing: - ?
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

• Cited: - ?
• Interesting:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article was moved to the mainspace on October 2 and nominated within seven days. Length is adequate. Article appears neutral in tone. No plagiarism issues detected. Both images used in the article are properly licensed on the commons, clear at a low resolution and both could be used with a hook. QPQ requirement has been completed. Minor question on sourcing: The very last sentence of the Friedrich Nietzsche section does not appear to be sourced. Could it be combined into something? All of the proposed hooks are interesting and I have no preference. For ALT0, ALT1 and ALT2, I cannot find the phrases "hidden reality", "hidden from science" or "the cosmos can be coaxed to respond using poetic signs" in the article to check citations. ALT3 is interesting and the image works with it, but I cannot find the phrase "hidden reality" in this article. While the hooks seem somewhat implied, it's difficult to see where each is cited. If I have missed something, please advise. Overall, this is an enjoyable read and a promising nomination and I look forward to seeing it on the main page. Flibirigit (talk) 17:02, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Hi, Flibirigit. To address your concerns:

• The last sentence of the Nietzsche section is still connected to the previous two sentences, hence draws from the same source. I have added the citation again if that is your preference;
• You are right, regarding the use of "hidden reality" that it is implied or you can say it is a matter of composition/word-use. First, ontopoetics is all about discovering and perceiving reality, hence the use of "reality" in this context. Then, the referenced quote talks about ontopoetics opening a world of new meaning and experience hidden within the world. The article also cites Freya Mathews explaining that ontopoetics involves "unmasking of realities" (Seager). Since there is a word limit to the hook, I just used the term "hidden" instead of explaining about opening a world or a masked reality. Elsewhere, the article also cites Nitzsche's theory that elements of reality are hidden behind a veil produced by institutions and needs (Volker). The same is the case for "hidden from science". Mathews talked about masked realities not familiar to science. Please feel free to suggest a term if you are uncomfortable with the term "hidden" or "reality".
• ALT2 is my attempt to rephrase and make this quote interesting: "the living cosmos responds, in person as it were, to our poetic address". It responds to "poetic address" - in ontopoetics addressing the cosmos does not mean communicating through language but engaging it through poetic signals.

Ontopoetics view of reality is different from its traditional conceptualization. So it is a bit challenging for me to articulate or encapsulate it as explained by the sources into a few sentences or words. Darwin Naz (talk) 00:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

My main concern here is that the words in the hooks are not similar enough to the prose in the article to be able to say where the hooks are cited. Once those words are similar enough, I can approve this by assuming good faith on the book sources. I have no preference as to how you want to word it. Cheers. Flibirigit (talk) 00:44, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

To make the discussion short, I have added ALT4 with similar wordings to the cited source. Darwin Naz (talk) 01:28, 8 October 2020 (UTC)

ALT4 is approved. It is interesting, properly mentioned and cited inline and I will AGF on the source. The citation question above is resolved, and the article now adheres to all other DYK criteria. I have struck all other hooks, but am willing to revisit them if any changes are made. Flibirigit (talk) 03:00, 8 October 2020 (UTC)