Talk:Omar al-Bashir

"The Sudan" to "Sudan

Per the Sudan article, it is becoming uncommon to use the definite article when referring to the country. --Impaciente 17:37, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Aslam-o-Alakum

“When he returned to the Sudan, al-Bashir was put in charge of military operations against the Sudan People's Liberation Army in the southern half of the country”,,, False, false, false and false: Albasir came back to Sudan in 1974, there was no SPLA in Sudan at that time,,, this is the same American propaganda used against Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua, now they use it against Sudan, SPLA is new Contras, most of these propaganda stuff extracted from the CIA work, the funny about it is that make any Sudanese laugh, it just haphazard information used in USA because people DO NOT know nothing, my god!!!!!!!!!

Oh, please! The CIA has always been right on target about that Cuban-puppet Comrade Daniel Ortega! People like you just refuse to fave it! --- DanTD 00:50, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Even this discussion page has bias information...

In response to the person that commented before this comment...

1. How do you know the person who wrote this article is American?

2. Why do you think from one little thing on this article, you think it is right to judge a whole country?

3. Just because one person may not have their facts straight doesn't mean every American is retarded.

4. So what, we may get a few things wrong here or there, but I'd like you to write an article on the history of the United States and see how many facts you get wrong.

5. And simply, you could have just said what information in this article was incorrect (politely), instead of screaming out that everyone in USA knows nothing.

6. If you really think some of the information is incorrect, then go ahead and edit the article! This is what Wikipedia is for, so people like you who know the correct information can correct the article.

7. If you happen to have something against a certain race, country, person, etc., please don't post your feelings about it here. Go tell some anti-(whatever-you-hate) group, and shout it out over there.

                                                          HyperKraz

(I don't know if there is like a moderator or something of Wikipedia that is supposed to post messages like these, but I felt it necessary to say this. I hope Wikipedia doesn't ban me forever for doing this.)

Seems obvious someone is playing "protect the guilty" with this open source entry. There is no reason whatsoever why an International Warrant has not been handed down for this man for "Crimes Against Humanity". -->

image of him

can somebody please upload that image of him?. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.175.1.237 (talk) 02:44, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

Bashir or Al-Bashir?

At various points, this article refers to him as "Bashir", "al-Bashir" and "Al-Bashir". Consistency would be nice. I notice that he's generally referred to in the English language as "Bashir". Polemarchus (talk) 11:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Two wives at the same time

I notice the removal of polygamous info. Please add more info. on Widad Bashir.[1]--71.108.3.62 (talk) 11:37, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Intro section

I noticed someone added this line "Al-Bashir is also the first sitting head of state to be convicted by the ICC". I might be wrong but wasn't he only indicted March 4th, 2009? I don't think he has been convicted yet. 99.240.36.63 (talk) 21:22, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Wife's Name?

Is his wife's name Valerie Heckathorn as shown in the second sentence, or Fatma Khalid as shown in the info box? Jmac1962 (talk) 23:57, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

The international community against the war crime warrant issued

The use of "the international community" is too vague and misleading. I think it would be better to simply remove that.

Old text: "The court's decision is opposed by the international community including the African Union, League of Arab States, Non-Aligned Movement, and the governments of Russia and China."

Proposed text: "The court's decision is opposed by the African Union, League of Arab States, Non-Aligned Movement, and the governments of Russia and China."

It is useless to add "the international community". This is a vague expression that could mean anything. And it is certainly misleading, as for a lot of people, that would include the USA and the countries from the West. Since this is not the case (The US are in favor of the court's decision, as well as France, Canada, etc.), and since using the expression "the international community" is not adding anything of value here, I would remove it.

Moob303 (talk) 00:17, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I agree...I believe most (or all) of Europe supports it as well. ChillyMD (talk) 00:26, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Now it just says "The charges against President al-Bashir have been strongly rejected." This is just as bad, if not worse than the original "international community" line as it also insinuates some kind of global consensus which doesn't exist. The majority of the signatories of the Rome statute, all of NATO, and the majority of Europe and North America appear to support the charges, and there is no information about that. This kind of imbalance on an article which is now linked to by the main page is disgraceful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.189.52.158 (talk) 03:46, 16 July 2010 (UTC)

Letter by Thomas Jackson

I seriously doubt the reliability of LaRouchePAC's article about Thomas Jackson's letter to Hillary Clinton.

First of all, LaRouchePAC is a political web site, who's purpose is to spread Lyndon Larouche's political ideas. Then, the source of the letter is never mentioned. So this is in itself not reliable. It is impossible to find the text of this letter anywhere else on the web. The only other times this letter is mentioned, it is referring to LaRouchePAC's web site. So it is definitely not an open letter.

Since there are a lot of doubts around the reliability of the source, I would remove the text about this letter, and the source (link to LaRouchePAC's web site).

Moob303 (talk) 00:18, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

If the news media decline to publicize an open letter, that doesn't make it any less "open." Jackson's letter is a primary source, and primary sources are permitted at Wikipedia, if used judiciously. The LaRouche PAC site is not an issue here, unless you have reason to believe that they have somehow tampered with the text of the letter which they include in full. --4.233.127.1 (talk) 20:42, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Even if we assume that the letter is legitimate, why on earth are we quoting it? Millions of people have written letters to their public representatives about the situation in Darfur — what makes this one notable? The fact that the Jackson's letter has been completely ignored by the tens of thousands of media reports about the indictment (and even, it seems, by his local media) suggests that his opinion's not important. Let's focus on the opinions of people who matter: legal scholars, presidents, and others who have been quoted in the international media. Deleted. Polemarchus (talk) 10:06, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I understand your point. You are right. Even if LaRouchePAC is a political web site, it can be a reliable source I guess. But it does seem to fall under the category of questionable source (Questionable sources), since Larouche is well known for his extremist and anti-Semitic views. How can we know for sure that Tom Jackson wrote this? The fact that this letter is not mentioned anywhere else makes this unreliable. And what is the relevance of this? There is not even an article on Tom Jackson on Wikipedia! Plus, you can only find this letter once on the Net. So even if it was written by Thomas Jackson, this is not an important fact. I think Wikipedia should stick to important facts. And it becomes important when it is mentioned several times in the press.Moob303 (talk) 15:17, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Does he speak english?

He nods and appears to understand spoken English in this interview [2]. I think it might be Sudanese government policy only to talk in arabic. Anyone know what languages he speaks? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tatty (talk • contribs) 23:24, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

200,000 to 400,000 killed

These allegations have been frequently circulated, but they do not represent a consensus. The world consensus is represented by Xinhua, which asserts that"thousands" have been killed in the Darfur civil war. Kupredu (talk) 20:17, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

So you're saying the Chinese government's mouthpiece represents "the world consensus", and all other sources should be deleted? And you're willing to edit war to keep all dissenting voices out of the article?

By all means feel free to add reliable sources that say the death toll is less than 200,000 but please stop deleting well-sourced figures that don't suit your POV. Just because there's some disagreement about the figure doesn't mean we shouldn't mention it at all. Polemarchus (talk) 07:50, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

Are you for real Kupredu? A Chinese government news agency is the "world consensus?" China has had their fingers deep into Sudan for decades, and has turned away from increasing evidence for genocide also for years. No responsible observer in the Sudan doubts the seriousness or malignancy of al-Bashir's efforts at ethnic cleansing. Wake up!! 207.180.128.8 (talk) 04:22, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Ethnicity

He's an Arab?? But why he looks like a black guy to me...? Maybe he has black people blood? --Elijahhee (talk) 17:39, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Sudan#Ethnic_groups. -Yk (talk) 23:53, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Is it known what his true ethnicity is (i.e., the tribe of his ancestors before they became "Arabized")? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.94.143.192 (talk) 11:37, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

The arabic link from alrakoba webiste doesn't tell that he's from Ja'alin collation , actually his brother who was interviewed said exactly the opposite : We are not from Ja'lin tribe as people say. Please Let's correct this information.M.Saleh (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 23:18, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

Genocide Charges

I have updated the article to reflect the most recent information about the added charges of genocide, but there is still not much information as of yet. Please feel free to add relevant updates and more mainstream references when they become available/known. Cwill151 (talk) 21:17, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Self-hating black?

I believe he's one. 71.212.215.24 (talk) 20:37, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Arrest warrant/NPOV

I submit that the "Arrest warrant" section, specifically the paragraph stating that "The charges against President al-Bashir have been strongly rejected," does not comply with Wikipedia:NPOV. This paragraph expresses a view which is manifestly pro-Bashir, though there are certainly many people who fervently believe that al-Bashir should be arrested and put to trial. Though undoubtedly al-Bashir has supporters, this can hardly be characterized as a consensus viewpoint. The article should include such information, but it ought to present it as opinion, not consensus or fact. It should present all sides of the issue.

Upon further research, it appears that these comments were created by Kupredu, which has been adjudicated to be a sockpuppet of Jacob_Peters and subsequently banned. Jacob_Peters has been permanently banned (and rebanned) for disruptive edits and sockpuppetry. Based on his edit history, it looks as though he might have been attempting to use Wikipedia as a platform for advocacy of his personal political views.

In any event, I propose an overhaul of this section, to include deletion (or at least major revision) of the non-NPOV content, particularly that which was created by Kupredu. Does anyone object? Would anyone like to help? I do not wish to start an edit war, so if you think that I would be unjustified in making such edits, let's work it out first. I promise I will be kind and civil.

I will add an NPOV tag to the article, or at least to that section.

When I have time, I intend to inspect the edit history to determine if Kupredu has made other edits to this article and, if so, if they also need to be edited.

Here is a revision comparison showing the edits in question: http://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Omar_al-Bashir&action=historysubmit&diff=288565338&oldid=287704757

Peteweez (talk) 16:10, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

vandalism

over 3 day old vandalism claiming that bashir eats children has been present on this article without anyone noticing. I am still struggling to find an unvandalized reivsion i can revert back too.Bunser (talk) 17:46, 20 November 2011 (UTC)

Lead image

(Generally addressed to the multiple IPs/single person who has reverted my change to the article's lead image...) The image I favour (here) is superior to this image for a number of reasons: it is more recent by a margin of four years, it has a much higher resolution, and it has no distracting background elements (microphones, flags, etc.). I have perhaps mischaracterised your intent to use the second image over the first image as vandalism. I am assuming WP:Good faith with the IPs' reversions, but change in image needs to be discussed rather than continually reverted (FYI, "he looks cool in traditional dress" and "I like it" are not a convincing argument). I'm willing to request page protection if more unexplained reversions occur. I♦A 14:04, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Popularity

Isn't it true that he became much popular after ICC released a arrest warrant? Justicejayant (talk) 11:21, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

"Popular" can be a highly subjective term, but if you can find a poll from a reliable source showing that his popularity as a leader rose between certain dates, that would be useful. It would be difficult to prove that the arrest warrant was the cause of such a rise in popularity, but again if there's reliable research that asserts a link between the two, then let's quote it. Ruby Murray 14:49, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Maybe it's no more any question now. But I think that you should remove the quote of Bashir from lead, "thank god british minister denied..." that one. You can better add it to other sections. Thanks Justicejayant (talk) 11:15, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

he is line he is dead

POV tag

he led a group of officers in a bloodless military coup that ousted the government of Prime Minister Sadiq al-Mahdi when the country was at the risk of entering a countrywide famine.

Pretty outrageous. He led a coup when the democratically elected government was in danger of making peace with the southern rebels. Bashir was so successful in continuing the war that the south broke away to form Southern Sudan taking all of the oil wealth with them. --BoogaLouie (talk) 19:09, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

References

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Some concerns about neutrality

As anyone who knows anything about recent Sudanese history must know, in March 2009, General al-Bashir was indicated by the International Criminal Court. This article mentions all of the people, mostly in Africa and the Islamic world, who have condemned the indictment. I have no issue with that. What bothers me is that there is no mention of any of the people who support the indictment of General al-Bashir for war crimes. Reading this article, I rather got the impression that the ICC is way out of line in attempting to bring General al-Bashir to justice. There really should some mention of the pro-indictment voices. This is just my viewpoint, which does not belong in the article, but there is overwhelming evidence that al-Bashir has waged near-genocidal campaigns in South Sudan and latterly in the Darfur, to say nothing of imposing extremely harsh sharia law in the Sudan and supporting terrorism (Osama bin Laden lived in Khartoum for while in the 1990s). It was a few years ago that his regime sentenced a Christian British boy to death for naming his teddy bear Mohammed-thankfully the sentence was not executed as the Foreign Office applied strong pressure to allow the boy and his family to leave the Sudan. Who sentences children to death for names they give to their teddy bears? There is a very good case for bringing al-Bashir to trial, and this article by quoting all of the African and Muslim leaders opposed to the indictment and none of the various people who support gives the impression that the indictment is just wrong.--A.S. Brown (talk) 21:40, 5 October 2016 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Omar al-Bashir 2351100000578-869.jpg

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:21, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 April 2019

Omar al Bashir is not currently the president of the republic of Sudan as Sudan got its freedom on the 11th of April 2019. Elections for the throne of the president will be revealed soon. In conclusion there is no current president of the republic of Sudan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.96.74.185 (talk) 07:49, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

 Not done. Still, we are waiting for the military's announcement and further confirmation from mainstream sources. El_C 07:52, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

See here --Panam2014 (talk) 08:13, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

"Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir has stepped down and consultations are under way to form a transitional council to run the country, government sources and a provincial minister said on Thursday."—That is not an official statement, which is what we wait for on Wikipedia. We are not in a rush. The protests weren't even mentioned in the article until I added them a few hours ago. El_C 08:40, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Weaselly statement from lead

I've removed this sentence: Some international experts think it is unlikely that Ocampo has enough evidence to prove the allegations. from the lead because (i) it's WP:WEASELly - which international experts? and (ii) whether Ocampo personally has evidence or not is irrelevant; what counts is whether the ICC - of which Ocampo was the head for many years - has the evidence; and (iii) speculation about what evidence the ICC may or may not have is not really important information unless there are serious sourced claims that the case is built on flimsy evidence. If someone wants to restore any useful information from this, then it would make more sense firstly in the body of the article, and then it can be briefly summarised in what is already a very long lead. Boud (talk) 22:29, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

References

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Darfur JEM.png

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"1992 Sudanese coup d'état attempt" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect 1992 Sudanese coup d'état attempt and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 February 10#1992 Sudanese coup d'état attempt until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 16:59, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

"Johnny Bashir" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Johnny Bashir and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 19#Johnny Bashir until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 17:39, 19 July 2022 (UTC)

2021 Coup section

Is this section appropriate for a biography of of a living person? The actions of "loyalists" does is not biographical and from the content included in the section, does not involve him directly or indirectly.

I have removed this section for the time being but happy to enter into a dialogue should others disagree. Jo Jc Jo^{Talk💬Edits📝} 10:08, 26 April 2023 (UTC)