Talk:Mu isamaa, mu õnn ja rõõm

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There exist controversy(?) in relation to the Finnish Anthem, that sometimes during its use in other countries on ceremonies (like sports awards) wrong melody is played.

There is delicate difference, as in Estonian version the melody is supposed to be repeated three times and the Finnish lasts only two times.

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Having spent time in Tallinn in the winter, small hut and crawl seems so much more apposite... :-) user:sjc

• "Small hut and crawl" has nothing to do with patriotism. You should take all the accents out of the song and translate the unaccented lyrics into English. Scott Gall 02:29, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Which will look a bit like this:

Mu isamaa, mu onn ja room,

kui kaunis oled sa!

Ei leia mina iial taal

see suure, laia ilma paal,

mis mul nii armas oleks ka,

kui sa, mu isamaa!

Sa oled mind ju sunnitand

ja ules kasvatand;

sind tanan mina alati

ja jaan sull' truuiks surmani,

mul koige armsam oled sa,

mu kallis isamaa!

Su ule Jumal valvaku,

mu armas isamaa!

Ta olgu sinu kaitseja

ja votku rohkest onnista,

mis iial ette votad sa,

mu kallis isamaa!

(I want to see what it means with all the accents taken out. It's too bad that only a million inhabitants of the world can understand either version.) Scott Gall 11:59, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

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Actually, "mu onn ja room" does not translate to "small hut and crawl". (To) crawl is "roomama" in Estonian, that's abit wrong. But well, we can leave it that way. To Scott Gall: When the accents are taken out the words don't mean anything. ;) Curgny 21:19, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Onn= Õnn= Luck (what actually is meant with the word -õnn- in the hymn is joy, the word has 2 meanings in estonian), Room=Rõõm=Happiness

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this sentence: This also has the same melody of the counterpart of Estonia. is redundant in my oppinion. 80.235.71.160 18:21, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

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The word "adaption" is misleading in this article as it makes no difference between the melody and lyrics. The melody was yes adopted but lyrics are Estonian original. Vulc (talk) 07:56, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

— I fixed it now. Vulc (talk) 10:20, 3 October 2016 (UTC)

IPA transcription

can someone check if the IPA transcriptions for the Estonian lyrics are correct? because it doesn't seem so correct. written by 208.54.39.161 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:51, 21 May 2018 (UTC)

Translations and citations needed

Villi na kolesakh added citation needed tags for the literal English and the Võro translation.

The literal translation was added here by an IP. If it's their translation, it does not need a citation (a professional translation cited to a source would be preferable, though).

Same goes for the Võro translation added by CalicoCatLover, here. The additional question is, why is a Võro translation supposedly relevant here? – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:35, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

This is also presumably what Iryna Harpy meant with the original research tag? – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:38, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Oh, yes indeed, Finnusertop. Many thanks to you for picking up on this. These types of national anthem articles have been on my 'to do' list for ages. Unfortunately, I've not been well and haven't had the strength to pursue the matter.Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:59, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

@Iryna Harpy: I've removed the Võro translation, the cn tag from the literal translation, and the OR tag. – Finnusertop (talk ⋅ contribs) 22:09, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

@Finnusertop: Thank you! I was getting pulled into edit wars over this issue in the not so distant past, and my health simply didn't permit me to focus on something that I would addressed without blinking an eye. Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:23, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

IPA transcription

I removed the IPA transcription because I see various issues with it. I'm not knowledgable enough to fix it myself. Here's the removed transcription for reference:

1
[mu ˈi.sɑ̝.mɑ̝ː mu ɤnʲ jɑ̽ rɤːm ǀ]
[kui̯ ˈkɑ̝u̯.nis ˈo.let̬ sɑ̝ ǁ]
[ei̯ ˈlei̯.ɑ̽ ˈmi.nɑ̝ ˈiː.ɑ̽l teɑ̝̯l]
[se̞ː ˈsuː.re̞ ˈlɑ̽i̯.ɑ̽ ˈil.mɑ̝ peɑ̝̯l ǀ]
[mis mul niː ˈɑ̝r.mɑ̝s ˈo.leks kɑ̝ ǀ]
[kui̯ sɑ̝ː mu ˈi.sɑ̝.mɑ̝ː ǁ]

2
[sɑ̝ ˈo.let̬ mint̬ ju̟ ˈsÿn.ni.tɑ̝nt̬]
[jɑ̽ ˈÿ.les ˈkɑ̝s.ʋɑ̝.tɑ̝nt̬ ǁ]
[sint̬ ˈtæ̈.nɑ̝n ˈmi.nɑ̝ ˈɑ̝.lɑ̝.ti]
[jɑ̽ jæ̈ːn sulʲ ˈtru̟ː.iks ˈsur.mɑ̝.ni ǀ]
[mul ˈkɤi̯.k̬e̞ ˈɑ̝rm.sɑ̝m ˈo.let̬ sɑ̝ ǀ]
[mu ˈkɑ̝l.lis ˈi.sɑ̝.mɑ̝ː ǁ]

3
[su ˈÿ.le̞ ˈju̟.mɑ̝l ˈʋɑ̝l.ʋɑ̝.ku]
[mu ˈɑ̝r.mɑ̝s ˈi.sɑ̝.mɑ̝ː ǁ]
[tɑ̝ ˈol.k̬u ˈsi.nu ˈkɑ̽i̯t.se.jɑ̽]
[jɑ̽ ˈʋɤt.ku ˈrox.kest ˈɤn.nis.tɑ̝ ǀ]
[mis ˈiː.ɑ̽l ˈet.te̞ ˈʋɤ.tɑ̝t̬ sɑ̝ ǀ]
[mu ˈkɑ̝l.lis ˈi.sɑ̝.mɑ̝ː ǁ]

For example, in [ˈʋɑ̝l.ʋɑ̝.ku] and [ˈol.k̬u], the first has a long (grade 2) [k] while the second has short (grade 1). So "valvaku" should be something like [ˈʋɑ̝lʋɑ̝k:u], or perhaps ˈʋɑ̝l.ʋɑ̝k.ku in analogy with [ˈet.te̞], [ˈkɑ̝l.lis].

In general, Wikipedia / Wiktionary has many issues with IPA for Estonian, and unfortunately I don't know how to consistently resolve them. Mats84 (talk) 08:12, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

@Mats84: Please do keep WP:COMPETENCE in mind. If you aren't knowledgeable enough in Estonian phonology, it's best not to make statements like "Wikipedia / Wiktionary has many issues with IPA for Estonian". And on your talk page you've said that you're "just an amateur with no formal background in linguistics or phonology"; however, it seems that you may have some kind of experience with Estonian – are you perhaps taking courses on the language by any chance? Cheers, 192.254.92.90 (talk) 02:15, 29 September 2024 (UTC)

@192.254.92.90: I'm a native speaker. I stand by my statement to the best of my knowledge and understanding. I don't feel I've overstated or overestimated my competence on the subject.

In the case of the anthem IPA transcription, the most blatant error is [sulʲ], (should be [sul]), and [ˈʋɑ̝l.ʋɑ̝.ku] is also certainly inaccurate as I mentioned above. The use of [x] in [ˈrox.kest] contradicts the article Estonian phonology, which claims Estonian has [h] (as do all other sources I've seen), but this seems to me like an issue linguists could presumably have disagreements about. Overall however, this transcription uses some quite advanced/nuanced notation, such as the diacritics above and below various vowel and consonant symbols whose meaning I know nothing about. So I suspect it was created by someone with expert level knowledge, but some typos or oversights slipped in. Since the transcription was unsourced, there could be a WP:OR issue. One could potentially look into the page history for the person who added this transcription. Mats84 (talk) 18:18, 2 October 2024 (UTC)