Talk:Monte Ne

GA Nomination

Without at least more references, it is unlikely this article will attain GA status. --Kmsiever 06:29, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Failed GA

Failed for the reason given above--insufficient inline citations. A good rule of thumb for GA status is to aim for at least one citation per paragraph, more or less depending on how controversial the material is. All direct quotes must be cited.

It is an interesting and very promising article, however. Please feel free to resubmit once this has been fixed. MLilburne 08:41, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Proofing

I copied this article to my sandbox for proofing. I shall return. — Reverend Lee 20:15, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Monte Ne
U.S. National Register of Historic Places
The mostly submerged Monte Ne Amphitheater in the Spring of 2006
Location	Benton County, Arkansas United States
Nearest city	Rogers
Coordinates	36°17′8.8″N 94°4′11.26″W
Built	1900-1920
Architect	A.O. Clarke
NRHP reference No.	78000575
Added to NRHP	1978

Monte Ne was an ambitious planned community and health resort from 1901 to about the mid 1930s. Located east of Rogers, Arkansas, in the Ozark hills of the White River valley, Monte Ne was once owned by financial theorist and one-time presidential nominee, William Hope Harvey. Two of its hotels, Missouri Row and Oklahoma Row, were the largest log buildings in the world.‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.›  Oklahoma Row's "tower section" is one of the earliest examples of a multi-story cement structure,‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.›  and is also the only structure of Monte Ne still standing. Monte Ne also had the first indoor swimming pool in Arkansas,‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.›  and one of the earliest golf courses in the world. Monte Ne was also the site of the only presidential convention ever in Arkansas.

Despite being an attractive vacation spot, it never succeeded financially, mostly due to Harvey's eccentric management style.‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.›  Eventually it went bankrupt, and most of it was sold off in lots. The remainder of the resort and town was largely submerged after Beaver Lake was constructed in 1964. All that remains visible are foundations and one severely vandalized structure. The area on the edge of Beaver Lake is still referred to as Monte Ne, and is owned and maintained by the United States Government through the Army Corps of Engineers.

History

William "Coin" Hope Harvey

Monte Ne was entirely conceived and funded by William "Coin" Hope Harvey. It was built between 1900 and 1920, with the majority of construction taking place before 1905. Harvey was a well-known businessman, lecturer and author in the 1890s. He made a lot of money silver mining in Colorado, but Monte Ne seems to have been funded mostly by the sale of his books—mainly on the subject of free silver‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.› . His most popular pamphlet entitled Coin's Financial School was published in 1893. Buoyed by his involvement in the presidential campaign of William Jennings Bryan, it sold several million copies.‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.› 

Soon after Bryan lost his bid for the Presidency, Harvey visited Northwest Arkansas. The area was known for its unique, pristine, natural beauty. In October of 1900, he purchased 320 acres of land in Silver Springs, Arkansas, close to present day Rogers. From then on he lived in Arkansas, claiming that he preferred the state because it had no large cities or extremely wealthy people.‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.›  Harvey moved into a run-down log house on his new property, and his family stayed behind in Chicago. His son Tom joined him shortly thereafter to help prepare the house for the arrival of the rest of the family. Harvey's other son, Hal, and his wife Anna and Harvey's daughter Annette joined them later. A few months after the family had moved in, the log house burned to the ground. All of the family's possessions, including Harvey's large library, were lost. Harvey carried no insurance on the house and, after its destruction, Anna left Monte Ne and returned only for brief visits.

Harvey's land purchase coincided with a desire by the post master to change the name of the area, because it was often confused with Siloam Springs, Arkansas. Harvey chose the name Monte Ne, supposedly combining the Spanish and Omaha Indian words for mountain water, because it "fit the tongue attractively." Familiar with European health spas, Harvey wanted to turn Monte Ne into a "watering hole" in the Ozarks.

Harvey began by commissioning the dredging of a canal. Silver Springs Creek was narrowed between Big Spring and Elixir Spring, creating Big Spring Lake. The creek was then channeled to form what Harvey referred to as "the lagoon." Limestone retaining walls, boardwalks, and park areas were built along the banks of the creeks and the lake. The place quickly became a popular spot for pleasure boating, picnics, and other outdoor activities. Many of the visitors commented how clear the water was, and The Rogers Democrat said that it looked "like pure alcohol." Harvey stocked the waters with fish to ensure a good catch for the guests.

END PROOFING

Any questions? -- Reverend Lee 11:35, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

It seems better, but you probably should link to the diff on your sandbox comparing the old and newest versions (as to make it easier to see the changes.) --Sigma 7 02:39, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

References

citations for Historic Monte Ne use the author's first name

All of the citations for Historic Monte Ne use the author's first name (Allyn) instead of her last name (Lord). The cover of the book clearly shows that her name is "Allyn Lord". If the citations need to be changed to use her last name, I can do that. --Jtir 22:22, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

Works for me. SchuminWeb (Talk) 23:24, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

I have changed "Allyn" to "Lord" in all cites (and not in the Refs!) and fixed some other minor probs in this edit. Please let me know if you see anything wrong. BTW, my process is to copy the whole article into a gedit window on my Linux system, do a search and replace, copy the result back into the article edit window, and then review the diffs for any goofs. --Jtir 12:20, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

combined identical footnotes for Lord pages 52, 94, 112

This edit is per Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Monte Ne and, IMHO, not a real improvement. There had been 32 Lord cites and now there are 29, yet the notes look more cluttered than before. If anyone objects, I will undo this edit. --Jtir 18:55, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Monte Ne Inn Chicken is the name of the business

The name of the business is Monte Ne Inn Chicken, not Monte Ne Inn. Further, the 1972 date is not sourced by the history page at the Monte Ne Inn web site.

• The Monte Ne Inn, two or three miles (4.828041656 kilometers) away from where the resort was on highway 94, opened in 1972 and is still in business. (Monte Ne Inn official site, accessed March 1, 2007)

--Jtir 18:03, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

From the Monte Ne Inn Chicken web site:

• Monte Ne Inn has been serving our famous Family Style Chicken Dinners for over 32 years
• Copyright © 2004 Monte Ne Inn Chicken ALL Rights reserved

This works out as follows: 2004 - 32 = 1972.

--Jtir 22:24, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

dead link to photo of Lagoon with gondola

This link has gone dead. I poked around the site but could not find the photo.

• Lagoon with gondola, circa 1905, Rogers Historical Museum Retrieved on 2007-04-09

--Jtir 13:47, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

The exact caption for the above photo is:

• Lagoon with gondola, circa 1905 (Neg. #N004945)

(The caption, but not the photo, is still in the google cache.)

I also found J. H. Field Photographs at the University of Arkansas Libraries googling for '"lagoon with gondola" -wikipedia'.

Unfortunately, the page has no photos. --Jtir 14:14, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

J. H. Field Photographs, 1899-1931
Photographs, negatives, and papers (1899-1931)
Manuscript Collection 539

28. Morning Mists at Monte Ne.  Lagoon with gondola, Monte Ne, Benton County, Arkansas, ca. 1920.  See also Field Photographs (Access. No. 434), #1.
   * a. 10 1/2 x 7 1/2, on 13 1/2 x 10 1/4 cream-colored sheet.
   * b. 10 1/2 x 7 1/2, on 14 x 11 sheet.

The exlink is still dead, so I have commented it out and tagged the paragraph with {{fact}} here. --Jtir 22:18, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

What is a "re-tile roof"?

Harvey's hotels: "... built of 8,000 logs with a cement floor re-tile roof." --Jtir 09:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

length of the porches

"Long" sounds redundant, but I can't tell which one to remove. I believe the first "long" is intended to describe a general feature that is common to both hotels.

• "As was the case with Hotel Monte Ne, Missouri Row featured long porches 575 ft (175 m) long."

Why are the porches so much longer than the building?

• "This Clarke-designed building was 46 ft (14 m) wide and 305 ft (93 m) long ..."

--Jtir 09:30, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

year of death is inconsistent with year of funeral

How could he have died a year after his funeral?

• "On February 11, 1936 he died ... A small funeral was held on February 14, 1935, ..."

--Jtir 09:41, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

GA comments

Aside from some of the factual issues cited above, I would like to see a few other issues addressed before promotion:

• Perhaps I overlooked it, but is there a citation for "largest log buildings in the world"? Fixed--The_stuart 20:13, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
• "By 1956, the building had collapsed leaving only a small section standing" A summary at the beginning of the section is fine, but could some expansion be added in the appropriate place?
  • Explain, like how it collapsed? I don't have much more information other than it did. --The_stuart 20:13, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
• The section about SCUBA diving sounds like it is coming directly from personal experience. I'm not opposed to such additions when, like here, they are not controversial, but perhaps it could be rephrased to better reflect an encyclopedic tone, and maybe even have some related reference? Fixed --The_stuart 20:13, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
• I'm generally unclear about the role of the "town" of Monte Ne, as it may be, outside the realm of the resort. Mention of a functioning downtown etc. at a time that the resort was failing, seems somewhat incongruous without an expansion on this point.
  • There isn't an easy answer to this. It wasn't really a town per say, more like just a couple of buildings that Harvey financed the construction of. There really isn't much more to it. --The_stuart 20:13, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Please let me know when these points have been responded to/addressed on my Talk. Cheers, Tewfik^Talk 05:24, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

As it has been quite a while with only some points being addressed I am failing the entry, though it is very close to GA status. If and when the points are addressed feel free to either contact me or to list it for review again. Cheers, Tewfik^Talk 17:43, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

GA passed

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   a (fair representation): b (all significant views):

5. It is stable.

   

6. It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.

   a (tagged and captioned): b (lack of images does not in itself exclude GA): c (non-free images have fair use rationales):

7. Overall:

   a Pass/Fail:

Thanks to all the editors who helped make this article GA quality. --_Hdt83 ^Chat 20:12, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Photos of the stone chairs in Frisco Park

I knew I had photos of my sister and me in the white stone chairs in Frisco Park in Rogers, and wouldn't you know it - I located them today at my parents' house, and scanned them in. I'll probably get those uploaded this weekend once my large scanning session is complete. The photos are from December 1987. SchuminWeb (Talk) 14:17, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Room Sizes

"The hotel had forty 16 ft² (1.5 m²) rooms" - this seems extmely small, not large enough to fit a bed. Are these possibly out by a factor of ten? Billy Catastrophe (talk) 10:05, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

 I'll wager it's intended to be 16 feet square (16x16) rather than 16 square feet (4x4). Janeyferr (talk) 11:49, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

That would make sense, if the metric unit was just a conversion of the original misinterpreted imperial. A 256 square foot room (23.8 square metres) is much more habitable! Does anyone have access to the source to confirm? Billy Catastrophe (talk) 12:14, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

• The Lord, Allyn. Historic Monte Ne book referenced says on page 43:

"The hotel boasted 40 sixteen-foot-square (sic) rooms, each with a fireplace to ward off the chill on summer nights in the valley. The hotel claimed it could accommodate 200 extra people on cots when occasion requires it" 

--The_stuart (talk) 15:46, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, I've changed the article to reflect Billy Catastrophe (talk) 13:12, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

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FAR

I reviewed the article as part of Wikipedia:Unreviewed featured articles/2020/2004–2009 and noted the problems below, if the article isn't improved a Featured Article Review may be needed.

• The lead doesn't summarise or properly explain the article, i've just tagged it
• The lead begins with "Monte Ne was a community" rather than explaining what it is now
• The infobox says this is a US Historic Place but the lead doesn't mention this fact
• The lead doesn't mention sections in the body, such as the railroad
• The lead has 4 cite needed tags
• The lead is too short
• 40% of the cites in the article are from one source Lord leading to a narrow point of view

Desertarun (talk) 11:32, 11 February 2023 (UTC)

I just modified the lead to try and bring it in line with Wikipedia expectations. Therefore I removed the lead tag. The article is a bit of a mess, and I would like to try and clean it more over the coming weeks and months. I may have actually shortened the lead a bit, but not sure what to add without getting into too much detail. The source, Allyn Lord, wrote a book about Monte Ne and is probably going to be the main source of information for the article. The book acknowledgements reference both Rogers Historical Museum and the Shiloh Museum of History as sources, and these two institutions are well regarded though their on line content is limited. That said, the article itself seems to have highly plagiarized the Lord book. Littleboybrew (talk) 01:17, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Significant article re-write

The old article had large sections lifted almost directly from sources, and there were of course some issues with citations. The story of Monte Ne is told most completely in the book by Allyn Lord, hence most of the references are to that book. Prior to publishing the re-write, I sent the article to the Rogers Historical Museum for their review and comments. Littleboybrew (talk) 21:07, 16 November 2023 (UTC)