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Talk:Misty Copeland

Latest comment: 3 months ago by Ssilvers in topic Next steps
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Good articleMisty Copeland has been listed as one of the Media and drama good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Did You KnowOn this day... Article milestones
DateProcessResult
October 19, 2008Good article nomineeListed
November 3, 2015Peer reviewReviewed
February 27, 2016Featured article candidateNot promoted
Did You Know A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on August 31, 2008.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that Misty Copeland is the first African-American ballerina to appear as a soloist with the American Ballet Theatre?
On this day... A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on September 10, 2018.
Current status: Good article

GAC comments

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Latest comment: 16 years ago15 comments2 people in discussion

I was going to review this article for GAC, but I'm afraid I don't have the time to complete my review. I made some preliminary comments, however, so hopefully it will help before the article is reviewed in full. My major concern is the status of the prose, which is typically below par. A thorough copy-edit from a non-involved editor will help spruce things up.

MOS/Formatting

Prose

  • ...is an American ballerina, who is described by many accounts as the first African-American female soloist for the American Ballet Theatre (ABT), which has been described as one of the three great American-style classical ballet companies on the world stage today (along with New York City Ballet and San Francisco Ballet). Long, long sentence. I'm not sure from the beginning what "described by many accounts" means; accounts differ? This can be made clearer. The background information about the ABT is also not needed here; it detracts from who this article is about.
  • In this role, she has endured cultural pressure and has been described as the "Jackie Robinson of classical ballet". What does "cultural pressure" mean? It's perhaps a little too vague.
  • her ballet teachers, who were serving as her guardians while she lived with them: shorten to "custodial guardians"?
  • After two summer workshops with the ABT, she became a member of the ABT Studio Company in 2000, a member of the ABT corps de ballet in 2001, and an ABT soloist in 2007. A lot of repetition here with "ABT" this, "ABT" that; any way to condense?
  • I see a few uses of "Misty" where a pronoun or "Copeland" will suffice; notably in the first paragraph of the body.
  • DelaCerna allowed Copeland to go to the club after school until the her workday ended and Cynthia Bradley... "the" or "her"? If "her", whose workday is it?
  • Bradley invited Copeland to attend classes at the small local ballet school, San Pedro Dance Center, where Bradley taught but Copeland's mother did not have a car and her oldest sister Erica was working two jobs, so Copeland did not accept the invitation at first. Cut into two sentences, perhaps after "taught"?
  • She soon moved back in with her mother in a motel in Gardena, California.[10] She and her mother soon signed a management contract and a life-story contract and Copeland moved in with Bradley. Repetitive wording ("soon" x 2)... maybe, "Soon after she and her mother moved to a motel in Gardena, California, they signed a management contract..."?
  • The competition was held at the Chandler Pavilion on March 24, 1998, and she says it was the first time she ever battled nervousness: "said", past tense.
  • The winners were awarded scholarships between $500 and $2500. Repetitive; "the winners received"?
  • The contest was among gifted high school students in Southern California... this should be explained when the contest is first introduced. Otherwise, it's very confusing; I thought this was about a second competition!

That's as far as I got. If you have any questions about my comments/suggestions, please let me know via my talk page. Best of luck, María (habla conmigo) 15:02, 9 September 2008 (UTC)Reply

GA Review

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Latest comment: 13 years ago36 comments4 people in discussion
This review is transcluded from Talk:Misty Copeland/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose):   b (MoS):  
    Many of the wordings and sentence orderings aren't comfortable. For example, in the lead a sentence about ABT separates sentences about Kimball and Jackie Robinson. Likewise, in the Custody case section, the timeline goes from 98 to 2000 and back to 98. Likewise, Bartell has been named, but then "the lawyer who delivered her to the police station filed emancipation papers."
    I will respond to any specific complaints.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:55, 2 October 2008 (UTC)Reply
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):   b (citations to reliable sources):   c (OR):  
    What is "cultural pressure"?
    I have reworked the sentence. I hope it is in better context now.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 06:13, 1 October 2008 (UTC)Reply
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):   b (focused):  
    Maybe it's just me, but it seems like there's a large amount of non-ballet info here. Reading this article, I'd like to know more about her career; I think the article does a good job of covering peripheral issues... but perhaps to the extent of obscuring her career.
    In truth, I am not knowledgeable enough about ballet to glean anything more about her ballet career from the numerous NYT articles cited. However, the most interesting part of her ballet career is the early portion that is in the separate custody case section. Are you not counting this part of the article as part of her career. If you exclude that, there is are still about 4500 characters of text on her ballet career alone. I have entire Good Articles with less text.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:24, 1 October 2008 (UTC)Reply
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:  
    "As an African-American woman, she is an extremely rare talent in her field,[22] and although she has been shielded from several issues, she endures the difficulties of cultural isolation as the second African-American ABT soloist ballerina." and "She also feels that since the ballerina is the focus of the ballet her role as a trail-blazing performer and role model has extra significance." seem to be praising her and representing her view more than I would expect from an encyclopedia article. Don't say what she feels, say what she's been quoted as saying. Do be more specific about what cultural isolation is, and how it applies to her specifially.
    Actually, I think this is very subtly worded compared to Jackie Robinson's article, which explicitly says "players called Jackie a "nigger" from their dugout, and yelled that he should "go back to the cotton fields." This is because the primary sources address the issues in a subtle and refined way. We don't know what specific things she is being shielded from. They could be calling her a Dancing monkey or some things much worse behind her back (or even under their breath or directly to her face). We don't know. They could be discriminating against her in others ways. All we have are the subtle primary references and there is not much more we can say.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)Reply
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars etc.:  
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):   b (appropriate use with suitable captions):  
    Are there truly no free images of her?
    ABT has emailed me two great images, but has not been able to provide proper licensing for them.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 05:59, 1 October 2008 (UTC)Reply
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:  
    You've got an interesting article here. It's got plenty of references, but I think it needs copyediting before it's truly a good article. I find that sometimes I need a separate set of eyes to copyedit my articles after I've poured myself into referencing them properly, and I think you're likely in the same boat here. ON HOLD for at least a week for you to look over the issues. Jclemens (talk) 02:53, 1 October 2008 (UTC)Reply
    I am very open to your editorial suggestions, if you have specific ones. It is quite normal to post a listing of such suggestions during the hold process.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 21:43, 1 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

10/2 re-review

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In an effort to provide specific suggestions, here are a set of items for copyediting:

There are probably more than these--that is what I have time to go through in detail right now. I've essentially reconfirmed my impression that comprehensive copyediting is needed here. I think you have everything it takes to have a great article, but the indicated issues (and similar ones) are currently holding it back. Jclemens (talk) 01:21, 3 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

10/6 re-review

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Based on the extensive copyediting needed, I've just gone ahead and done it. I've included a couple of tags, but I'm pretty sure that I've correctly refactored everything that I didn't tag. Feel free to correct anything I've boogered up.

However, this disqualifies me as a reviewer, so I'm marking this as needing a second opinion. Jclemens (talk) 07:02, 7 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

I see you added two tags. The first, which is at paragraph two of the first section of the main body, is without explanation in the secondary source. It is not clear to me if this is the Spotlight Awards or another contest. The other one seems to be requesting an explanation of the law beyond what is in the given secondary source. This may or may not be a reasonable request, but I do not know California law and do not know that I should be required to for a GA on this topic. I think the second tag should be removed.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 12:31, 7 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Second Reviewer

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Hi! I'll look over this article to give a second opinion, and should have the full review soon. Dana boomer (talk) 17:42, 17 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

This looks like a very nice article. The issues above are minor, and so it shouldn't take that much work for this article to be in a place to be promoted to GA. Drop me a note here or on my talk page if you have any questions. Dana boomer (talk) 18:11, 17 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

Everything looks good, so I am passing the article to GA status. Nice work! Dana boomer (talk) 15:47, 19 October 2008 (UTC)Reply

It does not look good at all. She is a real talent and deserves a better effort than what was given in this article. Someone who knows at least something about ballet needs to go over this and fix errors and more research is needed. Gingermint (talk) 23:35, 3 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

Ballerina

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Latest comment: 9 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

The article constantly referred to her as a "ballerina." She is actually a danseuse. She wants to become a ballerina. Now, I am not a giant fan of ballet, but even I know that it is the height of childish ignorance to think that a ballerina is just a female ballet dancer. The writing of this article could be better and really needs a going-ver by someone who actually knows something about dance and, particularly, ballet. It is also pretty shy on research. Gingermint (talk) 23:28, 3 September 2011 (UTC)Reply

Now that she has been promoted to principal dancer, she is a ballerina. --Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 19:57, 30 June 2015 (UTC)Reply

A thought

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Latest comment: 7 years ago4 comments3 people in discussion

In the lead section (although not necessarily the body), I'd suggest "Copeland became the first Black woman" rather than "Copeland became the first African American woman". Professional dancers tend to move between countries quite a lot, and in this context "first African American" could give the impression—partcularly to non-US readers to whom the term "African American" isn't as familiar—that there had been other black women to hold the position and she was just the first to be a US citizen. ‑ Iridescent 20:35, 27 January 2016 (UTC)Reply

  • Sure, can do—I posted here as it's not really a FAC issue, and I know from experience that FACs with a lot of discussion sometimes put other people off participating. ‑ Iridescent 00:27, 28 January 2016 (UTC)Reply

This is a problematic thought on many points. The first is that Misty has already traveled the world as part of ABT, an American company, and did not change her racial heritage or her national citizenship. If either of those change in the future, than maybe this point mught hold water, but currently it does not. Secondly, if we change this for Misty for this reason, then we have to go around not just Wiki, but a great many other publications and cultural papers and books to make sure no other African American's ethnicity is misunderstood by non-Americans. Why stop at Misty? However, we could hand people a digital copy of her DNA and this could still be misunderstood, due to language barriers, if nothing else. The solution offered by Iridescent could in no way solve the problem she suggests. Third, the most polite term really goes back to asking the person what they choose to honor for their lives. On Misty's on website she chooses African American. "Rising star Misty Copeland makes history as the first African American Female Principal Dancer with the prestigious American Ballet Theatre." Mistycopeland.com 2601:147:C002:D83A:9119:D26F:59A4:1D1D (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:26, 20 February 2017 (UTC)Reply

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Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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Latest comment: 8 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

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New book

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Latest comment: 7 years ago3 comments3 people in discussion

Can anyone find a reliable source for this new book to be released on September 27.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 18:10, 19 September 2016 (UTC)Reply

The publisher's page is sufficient evidence that it exists, but I don't see any reviews yet. They've got to be coming soon. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:33, 19 September 2016 (UTC)Reply

One she wrote: https://www.amazon.com/Life-Motion-Ballerina-Misty-Copeland/dp/1476737983 Coauthored: https://www.amazon.com/Firebird-Misty-Copeland/dp/0399166157 photography book: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/misty-copeland-photo-book_us_57e2a14ae4b0e28b2b5161b4 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:147:C002:D83A:9119:D26F:59A4:1D1D (talk) 11:32, 20 February 2017 (UTC)Reply

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Reputation section needed

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Latest comment: 6 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

The main omission in this article, IMO, is a "Reputation" section that describes the reception of Copeland by reputable ballet critics at various stages of her career. If anyone feels able to provide this, then I think the article could be updated and brought to FAC. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:14, 30 April 2018 (UTC)Reply

  • The main problem I had in 2016 (not the only one, but by far the biggest one) was that there was no reputation section. If there were a good reputation section, I think we could push it towards FAC. Without a reputation section, frankly, I don't think it should be GA. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:59, 1 May 2018 (UTC)Reply
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Latest comment: 5 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

https://mistycopeland.com https://www.abt.org/people/misty-copeland/ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ8ErQgDyWNJJqun803FkQw https://www.biography.com/people/misty-copeland Pretty.Pointe (talk) 02:37, 22 March 2019 (UTC)Reply

What's wrong? Why isn't the "Infobox" displaying like it should?

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Latest comment: 1 year ago3 comments3 people in discussion

I see that the "Infobox" on this isn't being displayed like it should. What's wrong? All is see is this: "Template:Infobox dancer= Misty Copeland." Why isn't it displaying properly like it should? Could it be fixed by anyone who knows how to fix it? - Frschoonover, Feb. 24, 2020

Please sign your Talk page contributions by adding four tildes, which will automatically add your name and the date stamp. Also, it's best to keep your talk page comments together in one paragraph to make the Talk page easier to read. To answer your questions, the problem was caused by some silly vandalism. I've reverted the changes. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:00, 25 February 2020 (UTC)Reply
  Done Eruditess (talk) 05:34, 24 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

misti is the best — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:6011:7840:F598:4847:5925:1022:56B (talk) 18:58, 21 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

College

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Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

What college(s) did Miata Copeland go to. 2600:1700:2730:35C0:D531:F742:DE10:9E85 (talk) 22:23, 30 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

As the article notes, Misty Copeland performed with ABT immediately after High School. She did not attend college. She holds an honorary doctorate from the University of Hartford. -- Ssilvers (talk) 03:59, 31 January 2023 (UTC)Reply

Improvents

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Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Who is the author for this source? When was the last time this source was updated? All of this information needs to be listed. Im going to call your manager because this is unexceptable to post online for a bunch of innocent people to read, when are just read false information. 184.185.105.110 (talk) 14:30, 30 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

None of your questions are answerable (which source?) and none of your criticism is actionable. If you point out any specific errors or deficiencies in the article, editors can take a look. Schazjmd (talk) 19:10, 30 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

Wiki Education assignment: Research, Writing, and the Production of Knowledge

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Latest comment: 3 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion

  This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 May 2024 and 20 July 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): LiztheTanner19 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by LiztheTanner19 (talk) 01:41, 16 July 2024 (UTC)Reply

Next steps

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Latest comment: 3 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion

this article needs:

  1. More detail about her career since about 2015, which is when this article last got a lot of attention; and
  2. A "Reputation" section that summarizes what the professional critics have written about her performances, and what writers have said about her technique and reputation. An example of this sort of section can be seen here: Laurence Olivier#Technique and reputation. -- Ssilvers (talk) 06:43, 22 July 2024 (UTC)Reply
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