Talk:Mike Moore (New Zealand politician)

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There are several prominent people with the name "Mike Moore". There's the former NZ Prime Minister, the American left-wing comedian/journalist/pundit, and also a fictional character in the Australian current affairs satire "Frontline". We'll probably have to disambiguate at least the first two. --Robert Merkel

How about moving the current article to Mike Moore (1) and writing a disambiguating page such as:

Mike Moore (1) - Former NZ prime minister and head of WTO

Mike Moore (2) - left-wing comedian/journalist/pundit

Mike Moore (3) - a fictional character in the Australian current affairs satire "Frontline"

(the latter don't need to be separate pages until they expand to more than a sentence or two or they need linking from some other article.)

• Michael Moore (#2 above) does not go by Mike professionally. I think he should be under "Michael" since that's what he uses professionally, unlike e.g. "Bill Clinton" or "Billy Bob Thornton." See, for example, http://www.michaelmoore.com , or the credits of any of his movies or TV series. Koyaanis Qatsi, Friday, March 29, 2002

"The Rt. Hon. Mike Moore began his parliamentary career when elected as the MP for Eden in 1972, becoming the youngest Member of Parliament ever elected."

This is incorrect. Mike Moore was NOT the youngest MP ever elected. Please see below.

Youngest Members of Parliament in New Zealand:

1. James Frederick Stuart-Wortley 1833-1870 born 16 January 1833 elected 27 August 1853 aged 20 years & 7 months

2. Thomas Edward Youd Seddon 1884-1972 born 2 July 1884 elected 13 July 1906 aged 22 years

3. Ralph Richardson 1848-1895 born 1848 elected 7 February 1871 aged about 22 years

4. Robert Campbell 1843-1889 born 1843 elected 23 March 1866 aged about 23 years

5. Marilyn Joy Waring 1952- born 7 October 1952 elected 29 November 1975 aged 23 years & 1 month

6. Simon David Upton 1958- born 7 February 1958 elected 28 November 1981 aged 23 years & 9 months

7. Michael Kenneth Moore 1949- born 28 January 1949 elected 25 November 1972 aged 23 years & 10 months

8. Jackson Palmer 1867-1919 born 1867 elected 5 December 1890 aged 23 years

9. Tapihana Paraire Paikea 1920-1963 born c1920 elected 24 September 1943 aged about 23 years Winatom (talk) 03:49, 15 January 2008 (UTC) Winatom

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.22.18.241 (talk) 00:52, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Mike Moore dumped as Labour Leader

I have been asked to provide verification on my recent edit on Mike Moore's removal as Labour leader.

It is a matter of public record that Mike Moore was dumped as Labour leader despite coming close to victory at the 1993 election after only one term in opposition.

"He strongly considered forming a break-away party, the New Zealand Democratic Coalition"

Here is where logic is applied, there was strong consideration of him abandoning Labour due to the sole or primary reason that he had been dumped as Labour leader. It is extremely unlikely that it would have been such a strong consideration if he had been retain as Labour leader.

It is beyond me why this is needed verification since much of the article has been written without any such verification such as Moore convincing his caucus colleagues that he could prevent a much worse defeat than one anticipated if Geoffrey Palmer had led the party at the 1990 election. 220.239.167.151 (talk) 10:29, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

To say he was "dumped" is emotive language, but it might be acceptable if you can find references in authoritative publications which say exactly that. Your full phrasing of "He was dumped as Labour leader after the 1993 election despite leading the party to near victory at that election after only one term in opposition" suggests that the change of leadership was unfair, and this goes against our "neutral point of view" policy. I asked for a source in my edit summary, but on reflection a source would not be sufficient to justify this phrasing. It might be acceptable to say "X regarded the change of leadership as unfair due to ..." with a reference (which could be to Moore's own writings), as that would give the opinion as X's rather than to Wikipedia.-gadfium 00:18, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

It is not emotive to use the word "dumped". It is a common way to describe a leader who did not relinquish the leadership voluntarily. 220.239.167.151 (talk) 11:33, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

New Zealand Democratic Coaliton: http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/New_Zealand_Democratic_Coalition

"Mike Moore - Former Prime Minister who had been replaced as Labour leader after the 1993 election."

This article was clearly explicit that the idea of New Zealand Democratic Coalition came about because of Moore's dumping as Labour leader and therefore it has been made consistent by me for this article. 220.239.167.151 (talk) 11:42, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

Your example from New Zealand Democratic Coalition says Moore was replaced, which is factual rather than emotive language. It does not support your case.

Phil Quin's opinion piece in the Herald ([1]) is interesting and you could quote from it. However, you need to make clear that the opinion is Quin's, not Wikipedia's, as I explained above. If you do quote from Quin, you should add the negative as well as the positive - Moore came close to victory in 1993, but he was despised by sections of the party, particularly women. I don't know if this is correct. But it's not my opinion that matters here but the opinions published in reliable sources.-gadfium 19:25, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

I did not use the "dumping" in an emotional sense because I do not have an emotional investment in this. Words like this have been used in a metaphorical sense. Another example of words being used in a metaphorical sense is with an article I had posted as a citation to this: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10716608

"After decapitating Mike Moore in the days following his strong showing at the 1993 election, Helen Clark failed to connect with Kiwi voters."

Of course Helen Clark did not cut off Mike Moore's head but the word "decapitating" had been used to describe metaphorically the removal of Moore as Labour leader. 220.239.167.151 (talk) 20:51, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

"Your example from New Zealand Democratic Coalition says Moore was replaced, which is factual rather than emotive language." I was not trying to justify the use of the word dumping when I brought up the New Zealand Democratic Coalition, which rather made it a misrepresentation on your part, but to point out how the removal of Moore as Labour leader became the catalyst for the New Zealand Democratic Coalition. The forced removal of Moore as Labour leader and the New Zealand Democratic Coalition connected and were not isolated from each other. 220.239.167.151 (talk) 21:09, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified (January 2018)

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NZ Herald plagiarising

Note that the NZ Herald has plagiarised this page (this revision) in this article (archive) so should not be used as a source per WP:CIRCULAR.  Nixinova   T   C   22:25, 1 February 2020 (UTC)

Last male Labour Prime Minister until Hipkins

Schewede has removed my fact of Moore being the last male Labour Prime Minister until Hipkins on the basis that it is unsourced. I violently disagree with this as don't need a source most certainly not about the male gender. 49.3.72.79 (talk) 04:07, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Have a read of Wikipedia:Verifiability. Schwede66 22:10, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

No thanks and I don't see why evidence is needed to prove that Moore and Hipkins are both male and are from the Labour Party.

All I am seeing I am being asked to prove what 2 and 2 equals to. They are things that are known for certain without need for evidence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.3.72.79 (talk) 02:28, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

It's correct but not a particularly noteworthy fact. ITBF (talk) 07:10, 26 February 2023 (UTC)